Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 368.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on October 25, 2021, 04:28:23 AM

Quote from: AndySt on October 24, 2021, 06:52:22 PM

If Mercedes lost in the battle for the first line, it means that the strategy was not winning and was wrong, because it cannot be said that Red Bull is a cut above the speed and really everything was decided at the pit stops Wink

I don't think that Mercedes did mistake with strategy. I doubt that with different strategy they would have won race. Max even with older tyres was able to keep Lewis behind. Though, on final laps Lewis was very close, with open DRS maybe we would have different outcome.

The talk of the last lap was the fact that Mick did actually keep Max behind for a while, and Max was calling it on radio as well, he was saying Mick should leave him be and he was mad about it. However turns out Mick gave him DRS while Hamilton was still not at DRS range. So that very last lap with Hamilton not having any DRS while Max having DRS made all the difference.

Change the scenario, Mick allows Max to pass slightly late but not too late and Max doesn't have DRS, whereas Hamilton catches up and has 2 DRS range that he could use to catch up, and we could have seen Hamilton win, still wouldn't be guarantee but it would be at least closer. We had nearly 100 minutes or maybe more of a race, and then it ended up with 1.3 seconds difference at the end there, that's insane. I can't imagine how much better these two drivers could get, they are by far the best out there for sure.

judas

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Maybe it wasn't the best race on the F1 calendar as we didn't see so much competition between all the drivers. But still, it was nice to follow the rivalry between Verstappen and Hamilton there. The start of the race was great that Verstappen had a worse start and tried to block Hamilton. But Hamilton still got past him and took the lead. But seemingly, Red Bull's pit strategy in general was better than Mercedes'. Thanks to it, Verstappen managed to be ahead of his top rival after both pit stops. The last moments were incredibly exciting and Verstappen got a very valuable win here. Now the point difference is 12 and we have only 5 races left.

Cnut237

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Quote from: LTU_btc on October 25, 2021, 04:28:23 AM

Quote from: AndySt on October 24, 2021, 06:52:22 PM

If Mercedes lost in the battle for the first line, it means that the strategy was not winning and was wrong, because it cannot be said that Red Bull is a cut above the speed and really everything was decided at the pit stops Wink

I don't think that Mercedes did mistake with strategy. I doubt that with different strategy they would have won race. Max even with older tyres was able to keep Lewis behind. Though, on final laps Lewis was very close, with open DRS maybe we would have different outcome.

I don't think Mercedes made a strategy error, either. They did what they could, with the options they had. And yes it was all decided at the pit stops.

The crucial thing here was the role of the second driver. Because Red Bull had Perez up at the front, and Mercedes didn't have Bottas there, it gave Red Bull a 2-1 car advantage, which meant they could control exactly when Hamilton stopped.

They stopped both Verstappen and Perez early, which meant Hamilton had to stop quickly in order to remain ahead of Perez, otherwise Red Bull could just have used him as a slow-moving roadblock whilst Verstappen disappeared into the distance. Alternatively, if Hamilton had stopped first, they could have kept Perez out, run him long, and done exactly the same thing... either way if you have an extra car, you can use it to control the other team's driver.

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Quote from: blue Snow on October 24, 2021, 10:08:51 PM

Congratulation Quartararo as MotoGP champions this year.

This is the first time French racer as MotoGP champion, this moment very excited, he makes a little party in Emilia Romana, all eyes on Quartararo even though he didn't get on the podium. I'm very deeply regretted Bagnaia, 3 laps left he got crashed, I don't know what happen, looks like he's daydreaming. this makes Marquez in the 2nd line have grown up to 1st position. But he can't change anything, Quartararo was locked his title for this year.

Fabio Quartararo became world champion in 2021 after his closest competitor Bagnaia failed to finish the race as the factory Ducati rider was so obsessed with winning Emilia Romagna's MotoGP race that he crashed, while Quartararo managed to get 13 points after finishing fourth and put Quartararo on 65 points from Bagnaia who are second in the standings, with two races remaining Quartararo is confirmed to be world champion this year as Bagnaia can't catch him anymore.

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Quote from: AndySt on October 24, 2021, 06:52:22 PM

If Mercedes lost in the battle for the first line, it means that the strategy was not winning and was wrong, because it cannot be said that Red Bull is a cut above the speed and really everything was decided at the pit stops Wink

I don't think that Mercedes did mistake with strategy. I doubt that with different strategy they would have won race. Max even with older tyres was able to keep Lewis behind. Though, on final laps Lewis was very close, with open DRS maybe we would have different outcome.

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Quote from: Jackl87 on October 25, 2021, 12:47:01 AM

So verstappen really managed to win the race i the end which was surprising to me as i only watched the start of the race and there verstappen immediately lost his leading position to hamilton.

It's rare that I say this, but the drive from Verstappen was fitting of a champion-in-waiting. He's fast of course, everyone knows that, but I often think he's also a bit foolish and overly impetuous, but today he wasn't. At the first turn, he didn't try to force Hamilton off the track, he actually gave the position... perhaps aware that with Perez right behind him and Bottas nowhere to be seen, Red Bull still had the tactical advantage. So this was perhaps evidence of some new maturity. And then again at the end, the coolness under pressure was impressive. Many drivers who are leading with a few laps to go might buckle and make a mistake when they have Hamilton on fresher tyres bearing down on them and taking chunks out of their lead every lap... but no, Verstappen was cool and professional, and kept the lead with relative ease in the end. Overall an impressive drive.

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So verstappen really managed to win the race i the end which was surprising to me as i only watched the start of the race and there verstappen immediately lost his leading position to hamilton. Also the fight in the first round between the two mclarens and Carlos sainz was also exciting to watch. It seems like this race was a great example of a well executed and therefore successful undercut strategy by Red bull which enabled verstappen to win this race in the end.

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Congratulation Quartararo as MotoGP champions this year.

This is the first time French racer as MotoGP champion, this moment very excited, he makes a little party in Emilia Romana, all eyes on Quartararo even though he didn't get on the podium. I'm very deeply regretted Bagnaia, 3 laps left he got crashed, I don't know what happen, looks like he's daydreaming. this makes Marquez in the 2nd line have grown up to 1st position. But he can't change anything, Quartararo was locked his title for this year.

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Quote from: bounceback on October 24, 2021, 05:50:23 AM

Quote from: Luzin on October 24, 2021, 02:29:08 AM

Actually I was surprised by the qualifying results, Quartararo will find it difficult to confirm the world title today. I think it was the wet qualifying session that made it difficult for him, and we know the Ducati is very strong on the wet track. So we can see today's starting grid position 1-3 belongs to ducati. Of course it's getting more interesting, especially if it rains later in the race, maybe Quartararo will be in trouble again. Although I think there is still a chance for Quartararo to improve in the next race.

Today's race is an advantage for Bagnaia because he has pole position, so it is very possible for Bagnaia to win the race if he can maintain his position until the end, while Quartararo today must work hard and race safely so as not to lose points and at least finish in the top ten.

Bagnaia has the advantage in the game and I'm quite optimistic about him winning the race. Although rain might play an important part in the race. I do hope it rains as it makes the race more interesting and the racers are challenged more. But rain might get the better of Quartararo so let's see who wins it at the end.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on October 24, 2021, 04:14:30 PM

Maybe not most exciting race of season, but few final laps made it's worth to watch. It's one of races that is won in pits. And I can't say that Mercedes made mistake somewhere or had wrong strategy. Max just were driving perfectly.
Most fun moment of race is Alonso fighting with Alfa Romeo and we hear classic whinning Alonso Cheesy

And pity for Raikkonen, he had confident 10th place and made mistake few laps before finish.

If Mercedes lost in the battle for the first line, it means that the strategy was not winning and was wrong, because it cannot be said that Red Bull is a cut above the speed and really everything was decided at the pit stops Wink

By the way, this is not the first time this season, and in most cases Red Bull with Verstappen produced more successful activity at pit stops than Mercedes with Hamilton. In any case, Red Bull did a good job of increasing Max's lead to 12 points and also securing a podium for Sergio Perez. The race was also quite successful for Ferrari with Leclerc, who held fourth place without serious problems and strengthened his position in the overall Formula 1 standings.

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Maybe not most exciting race of season, but few final laps made it's worth to watch. It's one of races that is won in pits. And I can't say that Mercedes made mistake somewhere or had wrong strategy. Max just were driving perfectly.
Most fun moment of race is Alonso fighting with Alfa Romeo and we hear classic whinning Alonso Cheesy

And pity for Raikkonen, he had confident 10th place and made mistake few laps before finish.

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Missed much of the race but here for the final 5 laps or so... So Hamilton is currently holding the fastest lap with 1.68 seconds behind. Not much time imho. Verstappen got this unless something really dumb happens.

Edit: Perez podium! Nice!

Edit: Ricciardo seems to be finding his bearings in that car. And Vettel top 10. Good job. I think the lines for top 6 and points finish were plus money for both drivers.

Edit: Damn.. This looked like it was a good race between Verstappen and Hamilton.

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The start of the race will be very important today. If Hamilton gets ahead, then it will be hard for red bull to catch him, but it will be easier with second and third to keep everyone behind in that case which will be better for the team overall. However if somehow, which I know is not really that plausible when we are talking about Hamilton, but if somehow Hamilton drops behind Perez, the race is over, Max will not leave it after that and will win an easy race.

The first lap will be a very exciting one, I am expecting something like the British gp, maybe not a crash (or maybe one) but definitely one that will be close like that for a while, it will not be "obvious" for a while if both drivers start the race decently.

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Quote from: Cnut237 on October 24, 2021, 02:24:22 PM

I thought Red Bull had this under control, with Max and Perez both up there they could control when Hamilton pits... but then Max pits on lap 10??? Seems like a strange move, he has plenty of overtaking to do now and Ham has a clear track. It seems odd. Very very early, not sure why they're risking it. Unless of course the plan is keep Perez out forever and use him as a roadblock on Hamilton later on?

Edit: nope, Perez in now as well. So maybe the undercut is ridiculously strong here, and they're hoping to get Perez out ahead of Lewis, so force him to stop now?

It looks very much like RedBull could dominate the race, even after the pit stop RedBull is faster and Hamilton gets pressure from Perez when he lets up. Without a defect on the car, RedBull holds all the aces. The fastest lap is currently also with perez.

Cnut237

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I thought Red Bull had this under control, with Max and Perez both up there they could control when Hamilton pits... but then Max pits on lap 10??? Seems like a strange move, he has plenty of overtaking to do now and Ham has a clear track. It seems odd. Very very early, not sure why they're risking it. Unless of course the plan is keep Perez out forever and use him as a roadblock on Hamilton later on?

Edit: nope, Perez in now as well. So maybe the undercut is ridiculously strong here, and they're hoping to get Perez out ahead of Lewis, so force him to stop now?

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Quote from: bitzizzix on October 24, 2021, 08:44:34 AM

Congratulations Fabio Quartararo for being the MotoGP champion in 2021, even though he only finished fourth, Quartararo still secured his position as champion, and unfortunately Francesco Bagnaia (Ducati Lenovo) slipped at corner 15 on lap 24 and could not continue the race.
and Marc Marquez led the previous race in second after Francesco Bagnaia slipped at Turn 15 on lap 24 and could not continue, and Marquez finally made it to the podium with Pol Espargaro, and Enea Bastianini for second and third.

A race that full of drama even since the qualification. A great deserved title for Quartararo as he shown himself to be the most consistent rider since the beginning of the season. It is unfortunate for Pecco, crashed while there were few laps left. If he was not crashed, the title will be a bit delayed.

By the way there were 2 stars at the end of the Race. Valentino Rossi is the other star, although he finished 10th but his "good bye" celebration to his fans is so emotional. Hard last season for Valentino Rossi as he could not compete with top riders but he is still a legend in MotoGP.

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on October 24, 2021, 10:27:50 AM

F1 is getting more competitive towards the end of the year. Months before it seemed like Hamilton will win everything. But now Max along with Perez seem like they will give a tough competition to Hamilton. Perez hasn't been that much consistent until the last few races. If he gets good enough support from a good teammate, I hope he can get a good position.

I for one expected Mercedes to be dominant in the US. Not sure how much the very high temperatures play into Red Bull's hands, as this isn't a Merc strength.
Either way, if Red Bull can win here, they have other tracks where they are expected to dominate, e.g. Mexico... so it's looking like Max should be favourite for the title... unless something dramatic happens here. Max and Lewis side by side on the front row... nothing could possibly happen... surely? Cheesy

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Quote from: CLS63 on October 24, 2021, 06:21:45 AM

In the qualifying session, I really liked Sergio Perez's performance a lot. He was incredibly fast and he was the leader also in the first minutes of Q3. And he improved his best lap even more later but he was able to stay at the third place. Because there was a really fast Verstappen there. Hamilton took the second place and he was away from Verstappen by 0.2 seconds which seems to be a serious gap. I can't wait to watch the race!

F1 is getting more competitive towards the end of the year. Months before it seemed like Hamilton will win everything. But now Max along with Perez seem like they will give a tough competition to Hamilton. Perez hasn't been that much consistent until the last few races. If he gets good enough support from a good teammate, I hope he can get a good position.

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Congratulations Fabio Quartararo for being the MotoGP champion in 2021, even though he only finished fourth, Quartararo still secured his position as champion, and unfortunately Francesco Bagnaia (Ducati Lenovo) slipped at corner 15 on lap 24 and could not continue the race.
and Marc Marquez led the previous race in second after Francesco Bagnaia slipped at Turn 15 on lap 24 and could not continue, and Marquez finally made it to the podium with Pol Espargaro, and Enea Bastianini for second and third.

CLS63

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In the qualifying session, I really liked Sergio Perez's performance a lot. He was incredibly fast and he was the leader also in the first minutes of Q3. And he improved his best lap even more later but he was able to stay at the third place. Because there was a really fast Verstappen there. Hamilton took the second place and he was away from Verstappen by 0.2 seconds which seems to be a serious gap. I can't wait to watch the race!

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