Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 64.

tokeweed

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Quote from: Distraction on January 10, 2024, 02:27:46 PM

2023 season was like Verstappen's career-high season. Like in the image above he also joined among the drivers who completed every lap in a season.

But the last season was really like a dream for Verstappen as I don't remember any bigger domination than this in F1 history. It is like he nearly won all the races in this season. The consistency of finishing every lap is another amazing work. If you remember 2022 Red Bull car had some serious problems at the beginning of the season. But they really learned their lesson from that to come back stronger to 2023 season.

They got Adrian Newey to thank for that. Without him, I don't think Red Bull would have a dominant team even if they have Horner and his team of race strategists. And as Newey is getting up there in age, he could retire anytime now like he was hinting some years back to start his company making boats.

So the question prolly is who replaces him and does he have a protege ready to take his place and continue car development for the team. Dan Fallows who is a known Newey protege is working with Aston Martin. :/

Koal-84

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I also think that Haas' lack of performance was not Steiner's fault, if there is no money for development, even the experienced Steiner, Magnussen and Hülkenberg can't do much. It was quite astonishing that Haas ended up with 12 points last year, you have to remember that Alfa Romeo only had 16.

FanEagle

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Honestly, Steiner was a fun guy, but considering how the team has been doing, it's normal that he didn't get his contract extender. On the contrary side, Haas is so poor that last season they had to cut even the box where Steiner was, to save up 250k dollars, on a race where one team is being punished for spending a bit more than what is allowed, versus Haas who is trying to save up 250k, it's really clear that they didn't give Steiner what was required to make it work.

I do not think that they will suddenly get better, not with some new principal, that is not going to happen. I think they are going to keep having this trouble as long as they do not get some money, and for that to happen they just need to sell it to someone else.

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Gunther Steiner lost his position in Haas.

Big L for F1, he was a loved person in this world.

Not clear yet why this decision has been done.

Distraction

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Quote from: Volgastallion on January 11, 2024, 12:39:36 PM

Quote from: Distraction on January 10, 2024, 02:27:46 PM

2023 season was like Verstappen's career-high season. Like in the image above he also joined among the drivers who completed every lap in a season.

But the last season was really like a dream for Verstappen as I don't remember any bigger domination than this in F1 history. It is like he nearly won all the races in this season. The consistency of finishing every lap is another amazing work. If you remember 2022 Red Bull car had some serious problems at the beginning of the season. But they really learned their lesson from that to come back stronger to 2023 season.

That is a freaking miracle in F1 and more in this long seasons, you can lose laps in so many ways that the odds are nearby to impossible to complete all laps, engine problems, crashes, tyres puncture, failure in any of the mechanical components etc.

Is 20% driver skills and 80% team skills to set up correctly the engine.

I absolutely agree. It is never easy for teams to have an unproblematic car throughout a season. In 2022 season Red Bull's car wasn't even able to complete a full race in the first events on the calendar if you remember. But the progress they have made so far is just spectacular. Cheesy

Other teams must be also wondering how Red Bull managed to do this.

Especially Ferrari must be wondering it. Grin

You know they had a really problematic season. Not only in terms of strategical decisions but also due to having important issues with the car cost them losing the 2nd position to Mercedes. Sad

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Quote from: Distraction on January 10, 2024, 02:27:46 PM

2023 season was like Verstappen's career-high season. Like in the image above he also joined among the drivers who completed every lap in a season.

But the last season was really like a dream for Verstappen as I don't remember any bigger domination than this in F1 history. It is like he nearly won all the races in this season. The consistency of finishing every lap is another amazing work. If you remember 2022 Red Bull car had some serious problems at the beginning of the season. But they really learned their lesson from that to come back stronger to 2023 season.

That is a freaking miracle in F1 and more in this long seasons, you can lose laps in so many ways that the odds are nearby to impossible to complete all laps, engine problems, crashes, tyres puncture, failure in any of the mechanical components etc.

Is 20% driver skills and 80% team skills to set up correctly the engine.

Koal-84

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It comes as something of a surprise to me, but yesterday the Haas team boss Günther Steiner was sacked. Personally, I don't think he did a bad job, but there is simply no more to be done with the Haas racing team at the moment. We'll have to wait and see who his successor will be and where Steiner might move to.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on January 10, 2024, 04:46:02 PM

This off-season is so boring as lineups of all teams were confirmed long time ago and we didn't had any serious rumours.
Until now - Guenther Steiner leaves Haas:
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/13045181/guenther-steiner-haas-team-principal-leaves-ahead-of-2024-f1-season-as-ayao-komatsu-named-as-replacement
He wasn't sacked, Haas just didn't extended his contract. It's unexpected news, but considering poor Haas results, probably some changes were needed. Will miss Steiner, one of the most interesting personalities in F1.

f1 these days is always boring. because only one manufacturer is strong. before redbul was dominant, mecedez was dominant. different era when michael schumacer, damon hill and mika hakinen were still racing together. the quality of drivers is the same with the power of the car is the same so the competition is always competitive and fun to watch until the end of the series.

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Quote from: FanEagle on January 08, 2024, 01:05:21 AM

What Red Bull had as their luck is that they had a good car before this as well, Red Bull has always been a decent car, like with Vettel they won, and after that Mercedes started to be great, and then Red Bull became great once again and winning with Max.

Yeah, keep in mind that RBR has the Messi of Engieeneres, Adrian Newey.

LTU_btc

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This off-season is so boring as lineups of all teams were confirmed long time ago and we didn't had any serious rumours.
Until now - Guenther Steiner leaves Haas:
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/13045181/guenther-steiner-haas-team-principal-leaves-ahead-of-2024-f1-season-as-ayao-komatsu-named-as-replacement
He wasn't sacked, Haas just didn't extended his contract. It's unexpected news, but considering poor Haas results, probably some changes were needed. Will miss Steiner, one of the most interesting personalities in F1.

Distraction

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2023 season was like Verstappen's career-high season. Like in the image above he also joined among the drivers who completed every lap in a season.

But the last season was really like a dream for Verstappen as I don't remember any bigger domination than this in F1 history. It is like he nearly won all the races in this season. The consistency of finishing every lap is another amazing work. If you remember 2022 Red Bull car had some serious problems at the beginning of the season. But they really learned their lesson from that to come back stronger to 2023 season.

Davian144

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With so many series taking place this season there will indeed be opportunities for each reider to be able to chase points, but the physical condition of the reiders must be in really good condition to be able to complete each series, if this year there are still sprint races there will certainly be 44 races and this is very draining for each reider and also the team in preparing good performers for weekend races and also sprint races.

It looks like the sprint race will still be there, unless Dorna itself wants to make changes to it next season. However, if we talk for now, it seems like everyone still has to remember the sprint race because there hasn't been any change for next season so it could be quite possible to drain each rider's energy. And I think every rider will really prepare for this in order to maintain their physical condition and stay fit when the season starts in March. But before that, I also can't wait to see the pre-season tests for all manufacturers and the launch of the 2024 livery for all teams.

FanEagle

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One thing we are certain about for the upcoming season is that Red Bull will have a good car, that is guaranteed, but that doesn't mean to say that others will not have a great car.

Some cars develop a lot better at early on, and then became not so great such as Aston Martin this season for example who was great but then ended up not being that great, that doesn't need to be something that has to be all that confusing and should be done in a different way, we need to keep improving all the while better for a whole season and Aston started great but stayed, whereas some start terrible but get a lot better for example Mclaren, was a terrible car and yet ended very well. If any team manages to start good and get better, they may give Red Bull some trouble.

Davian144

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Next season will be the longest season in MotoGP history with 22 races available for all riders and it will be quite interesting for the championship because each rider will have more opportunities to chase points when they start to fall behind in one or two races next season. The latest MotoGP World Championship will start on Saturday (10/3/2024) in Qatar and end on November 17 in Valencia, as has been released by the FIM and motorbike racing promoter Dorna. Source: id.motorsport.com

tokeweed

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on January 07, 2024, 06:59:47 PM

Quote from: nimethasa on January 05, 2024, 08:01:56 PM

mercedez car development is less massive, it has lost 2 times consecutively both the constructor's world champion and the pembalam world champion. but there is no significant development that makes the car competitive again

When they Change the rules the gap of cars is awlyas massive and it will decrease with years, look at Mercedes vs Redbull before this new generation of cars.

It will probably be the same in 2025, with close cars but again in 2026 a new generation of cars will come and they will start over again.

Would it be better if the FIA allowed the teams to have longer car developments under the same rules? Not sure how long they are but it seems like there's an average of 4 years? They prolly need to add a couple of years of that to give the other teams to catch up with the leading team. Imagine if they ran with the same rules that season after Verstappen won his first world driver's championship. It would've been another exciting 1v1 with Hamilton. Wink

Anyway, how long til the first tests in Bahrain? Grin

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on January 07, 2024, 06:59:47 PM

Quote from: nimethasa on January 05, 2024, 08:01:56 PM

mercedez car development is less massive, it has lost 2 times consecutively both the constructor's world champion and the pembalam world champion. but there is no significant development that makes the car competitive again

When they Change the rules the gap of cars is awlyas massive and it will decrease with years, look at Mercedes vs Redbull before this new generation of cars.

It will probably be the same in 2025, with close cars but again in 2026 a new generation of cars will come and they will start over again.

What Red Bull had as their luck is that they had a good car before this as well, Red Bull has always been a decent car, like with Vettel they won, and after that Mercedes started to be great, and then Red Bull became great once again and winning with Max.

So it's clear that we are talking about a team that has always been good, but the very last year of the last car, Max won, Mercedes won as well but Max was the one that won the drivers title, so it was clear that Red Bull had a good car, and then cars changed, and they became even better. So it is clear that we are talking about a team that's not too bad, and after 2026 change, they may still stay at the top. I am not saying it's guaranteed, but they are winning anyway, so using their time for that year and future is easy option for them.

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Quote from: nimethasa on January 05, 2024, 08:01:56 PM

mercedez car development is less massive, it has lost 2 times consecutively both the constructor's world champion and the pembalam world champion. but there is no significant development that makes the car competitive again

When they Change the rules the gap of cars is awlyas massive and it will decrease with years, look at Mercedes vs Redbull before this new generation of cars.

It will probably be the same in 2025, with close cars but again in 2026 a new generation of cars will come and they will start over again.

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Quote from: Distraction on January 04, 2024, 01:55:37 PM

Why shall not we see it? In the end there isn't such thing like there is a strong bond between Verstappen and Red Bull. It is all about having the fastest car. When his car isn't the fastest one on the grid anymore he would probably start making plans for his future. He signaled that in one of his statements in an interview before.

OK, let's go...

Red Bull was unbeatable in the 2023 season with absolute dominance, together with Max Verstappen they managed to rack up impressive feats and milestones.
Just to start... he was crowned three-time Dutch champion, climbing the podium 21 times out of 22 opportunities, 19 victories, triumphed ten times in a row, started from pole position 12 times, was champion with six stages to spare and ended the championship with 545 points . Do you want more than that? Where could he achieve such a feat?

For the first time in its history in F1, Red Bull won all possible titles for the 2023 season. In addition to being crowned champion in the Constructors' and Drivers' World Championships, it finished runner-up with Sergio Pérez finishing second.

If all of this is not yet a reason to make you believe that there is indeed a very strong partnership bond between Verstappen and RedBull, then I give up trying to convince you.

tokeweed

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Quote from: Distraction on January 04, 2024, 01:55:37 PM

Quote from: Spack17 on January 02, 2024, 03:58:57 PM

I'm wondering another thing which is whether we would see Verstappen driving for another team in the future.

I mean that I'm pretty confident about one thing that he would drive for Red Bull until 2026. But as you must have heard the cars are going to get big changes in Formula 1. After this big changes we never know which car will be the fastest one. If Red Bull lose their dominance then Verstappen can look for his options probably. He should act wisely if he is targeting to break the title record before the end of his career. I would like to see him driving a Ferrari to be honest. Grin

But Ferrari must be much better than this in every way of course.

Why shall not we see it? In the end there isn't such thing like there is a strong bond between Verstappen and Red Bull. It is all about having the fastest car. When his car isn't the fastest one on the grid anymore he would probably start making plans for his future. He signaled that in one of his statements in an interview before.

Like you mentioned maybe it would happen after 2026 season starts. Verstappen is a very competitive driver even if he talks about himself like he doesn't have targets such as breaking a title record. He wouldn't like to drive a slower car than his opponents.

Uh... Just no. Lol. And in what interview did he say that he's going to leave Red Bull if they can't give him the fastest car anymore?

It looks like you have no idea about the history behind Verstappen, Helmut Marko, Christian Horner and especially Jos Verstappen's relationship with Red Bull. He had his son skip F2, went straight to F1 and Red Bull was the team willing to take him in.

And even if Verstappen wanted to leave, how would he do so if his contract lasts until 2028? :/

The only reason why Verstappen would leave that I can think of is if Christian Horner and Adrian Newey leave the team. Where those guys go, Verstappen goes. Dream scenario would be if all three of them go to Ferrari.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on January 05, 2024, 07:28:34 PM

Quote from: Distraction on January 05, 2024, 02:18:17 PM

Red Bull have been reported to have started their works on their 2025 car already now. Yeah it sounds really crazy maybe but this is what they say. Grin

This means Red Bull will have a similar season next time probably. Verstappen would carry the team on his shoulders while making his way to another championship. I just wonder how many points Perez will be able to collect after making a brave speech about his next season performance.

Verstappen really admires Norris and Piastri both seemingly according to a recent statement of him. But both of these drivers really deserve to be admired because of being really talented.

I think it is a common thing to do.

Do you remember Mercedes 2 years ago? they failed the test with bad performance during the 1st week.
Back on days, we got 2 weeks of tests and during the second week, they used the new project car for mid/next season.

mercedez car development is less massive, it has lost 2 times consecutively both the constructor's world champion and the pembalam world champion. but there is no significant development that makes the car competitive again

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