Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 82.

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Quote from: moneystery on December 13, 2023, 10:16:15 AM

Quote from: Davian144 on December 12, 2023, 05:47:22 AM

Everyone will see how Yamaha performs during this season in developing its engine for next season, especially with the help of Luca Marmorini for Yamaha and the other technicians at Yamaha. Because no one will stay at Yamaha for long if the Yamaha manufacturer does not develop well or meet the expectations of its own riders next season.

with only 3 months left, that will be a short time for yamaha to be able to develop their motorbike. even though they get unrestricted testing and free engine development, other manufacturers like ducati are already several steps ahead compared to yamaha. i don't think the help from luca marmorini was very helpful either, considering that they are specialists in f1 and matching with yamaha engines takes more time.

i bet that yamaha's performance will be bad again in the next season.

If they don't get a true engineer like Newey is in Formula 1 then it will be very difficult for Yamaha to improve their performance in such a short time remaining.I think they would be doing the right thing if they manage to hire a very successful head lf engineering for their team as I am sure things would improve.Most likely they won't be able to do miracles in such a short time but overall they will make little changes overtime which would result in a big increase in their performance.

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Quote from: Davian144 on December 12, 2023, 05:47:22 AM

Everyone will see how Yamaha performs during this season in developing its engine for next season, especially with the help of Luca Marmorini for Yamaha and the other technicians at Yamaha. Because no one will stay at Yamaha for long if the Yamaha manufacturer does not develop well or meet the expectations of its own riders next season.

with only 3 months left, that will be a short time for yamaha to be able to develop their motorbike. even though they get unrestricted testing and free engine development, other manufacturers like ducati are already several steps ahead compared to yamaha. i don't think the help from luca marmorini was very helpful either, considering that they are specialists in f1 and matching with yamaha engines takes more time.

i bet that yamaha's performance will be bad again in the next season.

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Verstappen made a statement like he saw some weaknesses in the car and they were going to work on them. I don't know how he found a weakness in that car. Grin

Red Bull had a fully dominant season especially thanks to Verstappen. I can't imagine this car getting much stronger than this. W11 is the fastest car ever in F1 history as far as I know. I assume Red Bull are also working on making an even faster car. Until 2026 season they have time to do so and they don't have any real opponent ahead of them either. Because I don't expect any other team to close the gap much with Red Bull in the meantime.

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Quote from: Juggy777 on December 12, 2023, 06:19:20 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 10, 2023, 05:43:29 PM

Do we already know when the f1 will start with the tests?

We are 3 month away from the start but I can't find any info about them yet

@coinlocket$ according to this link the tests begin from 21st Feb and there’s also a change in the time so make sure to see what time it’ll be available in your time zone. Furthermore another thing I see from the link is that the Chinese race is back after a long wait and some minor adjustments have been made to the race schedule and on paper these changes look interesting but in reality we can’t be sure if they’ll actually help increase the competition or not because I’m tired of one way races.

I don't think these things are actually going to make a lot of changes. At least I do not expect the outcome to be very different. A lot of people are actually tired of one-way races. And to be honest, I don't know if that is going to actually change anytime soon or not. But I am definitely interested to see how it is going to affect the races. And remember the adjustments are not very big. These are some tweaks here and there. So that's why I said that the outcome is probably not going to be very unexpected.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 10, 2023, 05:43:29 PM

Do we already know when the f1 will start with the tests?

We are 3 month away from the start but I can't find any info about them yet

I think there are only 3 test days a year, the last were the tyre tests on 28/11/2013 in Abu Dhabi, here is the German report on the tests.

The first test days next year are already scheduled for 21-23 February 2024 at Sachir.

Formel-1-Wintertests 2024: Übersicht zu Terminen, Strecken und Fahrern

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Driving will normally take place in two sessions from 8:00 to 12:15 and again from 13:15 to 17:30 (CET).

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 10, 2023, 05:43:29 PM

Do we already know when the f1 will start with the tests?

We are 3 month away from the start but I can't find any info about them yet

@coinlocket$ according to this link the tests begin from 21st Feb and there’s also a change in the time so make sure to see what time it’ll be available in your time zone. Furthermore another thing I see from the link is that the Chinese race is back after a long wait and some minor adjustments have been made to the race schedule and on paper these changes look interesting but in reality we can’t be sure if they’ll actually help increase the competition or not because I’m tired of one way races.

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Quote from: alegotardo on December 10, 2023, 09:26:12 AM

Although director Massimo Meregalli states that the performance of the Yamaha engine has met expectations, Quartararo has already admitted that he was not at all impressed and that he expected more from a power unit produced with the help of Luca Marmorini, a famous engineer with experience in Formula 1.

Everyone will see how Yamaha performs during this season in developing its engine for next season, especially with the help of Luca Marmorini for Yamaha and the other technicians at Yamaha. Because no one will stay at Yamaha for long if the Yamaha manufacturer does not develop well or meet the expectations of its own riders next season.

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But, who knows, this could change next year, because after hearing these harsh words from Fabio Quartararo about the new engine tested in Misano, Yamaha promises news for the coming weeks with a view to the 2024 season, they say they are preparing two new engine versions for 2024.

Will Yamaha be able to impress this time? I still have my doubts.

I'm also curious about the new version of Yamaha's engine and the possibility that it will be seen at the Sepang Malaysia test at the beginning of next year, because what Fabio Quartararo tested at the Valencia test was only an engine with small updates which in general is not much different from the 2023 engine. So I will see what Fabio Quartararo comments after testing at Sepang early next year so that Yamaha can live up to better expectations. However, if at that time there were no Yamaha riders who were satisfied with the engine developed so far, I would also doubt Yamaha's performance next season.

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Quote from: alegotardo on December 10, 2023, 09:26:12 AM

Will Yamaha be able to impress this time? I still have my doubts.

So Yamaha have been trying to get more out of the engine for years, once there was a small ray of hope, then there was the valve scandal, after that the air was completely out of the Yamaha engine. Let's see if it is a bit better next season, Yamaha can use more engines thanks to the concession points, so they can take more risks in terms of performance, the inline engine will never be as strong as the V-engine, but it has different characteristics, but Suzuki also had a good and strong inline engine, so there is no excuse for Yamaha.

But Yamaha is not only weak in the engine but also in the aerodynamics. So I don't expect Yamaha to be at the top next season.

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Do we already know when the f1 will start with the tests?

We are 3 month away from the start but I can't find any info about them yet

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 07, 2023, 09:47:43 AM

Not only Honda but also Yamaha completely overslept the development in the area of aerodynamics, all European manufacturers were simply better. In addition, Yamaha also has a weak engine that they never got any further in terms of performance.

Although director Massimo Meregalli states that the performance of the Yamaha engine has met expectations, Quartararo has already admitted that he was not at all impressed and that he expected more from a power unit produced with the help of Luca Marmorini, a famous engineer with experience in Formula 1.

But, who knows, this could change next year, because after hearing these harsh words from Fabio Quartararo about the new engine tested in Misano, Yamaha promises news for the coming weeks with a view to the 2024 season, they say they are preparing two new engine versions for 2024.

Will Yamaha be able to impress this time? I still have my doubts.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 07, 2023, 09:47:43 AM

Not only Honda but also Yamaha completely overslept the development in the area of aerodynamics, all European manufacturers were simply better. In addition, Yamaha also has a weak engine that they never got any further in terms of performance.

Lin Jarvis himself, who is still the boss at Yamaha, has also admitted that their current disadvantage is that they have not developed their engines in the last few years, which has resulted in their riders complaining and not being able to unleash their true potential. This is certainly quite crucial for Asian manufacturers such as Honda and Yamaha because these two manufacturers are starting to find it difficult to balance their performance with other European motorbikes.

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And yes, it will be difficult for both of them, although they will benefit greatly from the new concession system and will also be allowed to develop the engine further, but without these concessions they would never make it to the top again.

I also think like that, because Honda and Yamaha will really take advantage of this advantage next season in order to be able to compete again with European motorbikes which are generally quite strong at the moment and this is coupled with updates that will continue to be carried out by manufacturers such as Aprilia, Ducati and KTM next season.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 07, 2023, 09:47:43 AM

Not only Honda but also Yamaha completely overslept the development in the area of aerodynamics, all European manufacturers were simply better. In addition, Yamaha also has a weak engine that they never got any further in terms of performance.

And yes, it will be difficult for both of them, although they will benefit greatly from the new concession system and will also be allowed to develop the engine further, but without these concessions they would never make it to the top again.

MotoGP führt neue Concessions ein: Reifen, Tests, Updates, Wildcards

Yeah, it is a different economical-political approach to investments during the covid-19.

For the better of the sport, it will be nice if they come back with big investments.s

Koal-84

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 06, 2023, 06:19:19 PM

Yeah after Covid Honda had not invested so much in MotoGP.

An the sad part is that I don't think it will change soon this

Not only Honda but also Yamaha completely overslept the development in the area of aerodynamics, all European manufacturers were simply better. In addition, Yamaha also has a weak engine that they never got any further in terms of performance.

And yes, it will be difficult for both of them, although they will benefit greatly from the new concession system and will also be allowed to develop the engine further, but without these concessions they would never make it to the top again.

MotoGP führt neue Concessions ein: Reifen, Tests, Updates, Wildcards

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 06, 2023, 10:18:12 AM

If the Pramac team gets back the current specs like the factory team (in 2023, as you wrote, Pramac and the factory team had the same specs, I don't know about possible updates during the season, and all the other teams had 2022 specs), all the teams with the 2023 specs will probably get very competitive and tested bikes.

This is still possible to happen, but as seen last season or the 2023 season, Ducati itself always develops its motorbikes every season, so they also have a special agreement regarding providing motorbike specs when purchased by their own customer teams, as in three satellite teams owned by Ducati this season where Pramac gets a share of motorbike specs that are no different from the factory motorbike specs. So there is a possibility that something like that will happen again next season where the Gresini team and Rossi team will get the Gp23 spec and the Pramac team will get the Gp24 spec, although during the test there will definitely be many changes made by each team.

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It will be very difficult for Marini, Honda did not achieve much with Marc in the last 2 years and development was probably the reason why Marc changed. Marini won't be able to have much influence on the development of the current Honda for next year, so hopefully Mir has done some good groundwork.

Mir also does not have any further ability to develop Honda motorbikes during the 2023 season even though Honda itself still has high hopes for Mir to make Honda motorbikes more competitive because Santi Hernandez will handle Mir next season. Meanwhile, Marini will indeed have difficulty understanding Honda motorbikes, but that doesn't mean we have to immediately judge him as bad because he has just tried a Honda motorbike.

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Quote from: Distraction on November 30, 2023, 02:14:52 PM

The race calendar for 2024 season is already out! It looks like we will have more races next time. We had 22 races this season but this time there are 2 more. Of course it is still early to talk like all of these races will be held without problems. But hopefully we can watch as many races as possible next season.

It looks like a quite tight schedule at the end especially. The last 6 races are very close to each other and it would be quite tiring for teams and drivers. But for us the spectators it would be a feast! Grin

It will probably be another season dominated by Verstappen however I would like to watch some more progress by other top teams.

In fact, we were still in July, halfway through the championship, when the F1 management came forward and released the outline of the 2024 calendar.... unless they changed something, it had been pre-defined that there would be 24 stages with two races on Saturday, the next championship would start in March 2024 (I'm not sure if this still holds) and the promise was to also hold the Chinese GP, which was absent from F1 for three years due to restrictions caused by the local government in response to the coronavirus pandemic, in addition to the rescheduling of some other stages such as those in Japan, Azerbaijan and Qatar from their traditional dates.
I'm Brazilian, and I also remember that the São Paulo GP is scheduled for the beginning of November Tongue

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 06, 2023, 10:18:12 AM

If the Pramac team gets back the current specs like the factory team (in 2023, as you wrote, Pramac and the factory team had the same specs, I don't know about possible updates during the season, and all the other teams had 2022 specs), all the teams with the 2023 specs will probably get very competitive and tested bikes.

It will be very difficult for Marini, Honda did not achieve much with Marc in the last 2 years and development was probably the reason why Marc changed. Marini won't be able to have much influence on the development of the current Honda for next year, so hopefully Mir has done some good groundwork.

Yeah after Covid Honda had not invested so much in MotoGP.

An the sad part is that I don't think it will change soon this

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Quote from: Davian144 on December 06, 2023, 09:21:59 AM

~

If the Pramac team gets back the current specs like the factory team (in 2023, as you wrote, Pramac and the factory team had the same specs, I don't know about possible updates during the season, and all the other teams had 2022 specs), all the teams with the 2023 specs will probably get very competitive and tested bikes.

It will be very difficult for Marini, Honda did not achieve much with Marc in the last 2 years and development was probably the reason why Marc changed. Marini won't be able to have much influence on the development of the current Honda for next year, so hopefully Mir has done some good groundwork.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 05, 2023, 04:10:59 AM

With the teams you mentioned, it will also be interesting to see which Ducati specification they get, even if the 2022 Ducati version will probably still be competitive, it will be interesting to see if a team gets the 2024 factory specification, but I don't think so.

If we look at the season that has finished, the Pramac Racing team got the same specification motorbike as the factory Ducati team, so there is a possibility that the Pramac Racing team for next season can get the same motorbike specs again as the factory Ducati motorbike. So of course this will be quite interesting considering that the Gp23 motorbike is also quite competitive and not bad for next season and this will also make the level of competition more competitive next season.

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The Rossi team have a very good rider pairing, as you wrote, and will also surprise or even win next season, Marini (even though he is Rossi's half-brother) was too weak for me and I'm curious to see how he does in the Honda factory team, if he doesn't make the breakthrough there his career after Honda will probably be over.

The Honda manufacturer is not included in the competitive teams in the season that has finished so it is very important for Marini to bring in and make new breakthroughs at the Honda manufacturer because Marquez's departure from Honda could certainly be quite a difficult blow for the Honda manufacturer. So Marini must be able to do something useful for Honda so that the Japanese manufacturer can return to a more competitive path next season. As for the Rossi team, I think it is quite suitable for the two riders who will be relied on next season because both of them will also ride Ducati motorbikes with not so many updates.

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Quote from: Distraction on November 30, 2023, 02:14:52 PM

The race calendar for 2024 season is already out! It looks like we will have more races next time. We had 22 races this season but this time there are 2 more. Of course it is still early to talk like all of these races will be held without problems. But hopefully we can watch as many races as possible next season.

It looks like a quite tight schedule at the end especially. The last 6 races are very close to each other and it would be quite tiring for teams and drivers. But for us the spectators it would be a feast! Grin

It will probably be another season dominated by Verstappen however I would like to watch some more progress by other top teams.

Believe it or not, I feel like it may not be this much domination from Max if you ask me. I am not saying that he will not be the title winner, in all likeliness he will be the winner unless some major problem happens but I think he did had a great all time greatest season thanks to not having any issues, and you do not have seasons like this all the time, like remember last season they had car breaking down even at the first race, or someone may hit him, it's all possible.

In the end, I think it's quite clear that Red Bull has the best car, but if someone else spent their entire time building upcoming seasons car, and Max has a few bad luck games, maybe this time the difference will be closer. Of course we are only talking about second team getting closer, not even winning but only getting closer.

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The source: https://twitter.com/F1/status/1732007141005750702

The sprint schedule in the 2024 calendar has also been determined! Apart from that the sprint format has also been changed again. From now on sprint events are going to be before qualifying session rather than the other way around. I believe this is definitely the right thing to do. Because it wasn't sensible to have qualifying session before and sprint in the middle of qualifying and race.

In the end qualifying results determine the grid right now. It is better to have it right before the race to help the drivers focus on it more.

If it was determined by sprint results like before then there wouldn't have been any need to change this.

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