Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 107. (Read 908613 times)

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcjpy  (pan out to 2hr or so)

There is more selling than buying, but there is still a lot of buying. And the chart doesnt show nationality of seller, though I'd say given the advantage of selling for JPY through Gox, any Japanese person is using Gox to withdraw and not any other service (because all other services have fees and delays to transfer to Japan whereas Gox is relatively simple, currently standing at 14 business days delay).

But again, you'd expect it to be more one-sided. I'd imagine that EVERYONE's btcs are being sold at Gox, sir. Not particularly the Japanese's, beyond the fact its currently the currency with the shortest withdrawal time.


The banking limits aren't unbelievable- if you live in Japan. Its standard bureaucracy. And the 5% is likely not a withdrawal at all, but a fiat to fiat transfer through a regular bank which charges them for it (though there is obviously a percentage in it for them as well). And when a bank is forced to submit reports on incoming transfers over $10k USD (in the US) to regulatory agencies, they also aren't allowed to tell the customer they are doing so (this is a fact). So EVERYTHING is a delay EVERYWHERE.

Also, about the numbers not lying, you pretty much answered that yourself. The arb gap would close- except no one has the capital to close that gap and funds are stuck in limbo for weeks. I was arbing as well (but successfully unlike you apparently), but only got to do it a few times before this shitstorm came up. Que sera sera.


They can't legally arb themselves, and obviously they didn't (much?) otherwise there wouldnt be a gap. So... oh wait I just got trolled

Got an answer from the Lawyer of MtGox in Poland:

I think you fail to mention that it is entirely possible for MtGox to perform the arbitrage exclusively.   Customers can't, but Mt.Gox certainly can.

Your assumption also that Mt.Gox price is based on an efficient market.  It is not, it is a manipulated market than Mt.Gox can always choose to flood the market with fake BTC.   Why would they do that?   Well... arbitrage.

It makes no sense for anybody else than the thiefs themselves to sell Goxcoins for a 100 bucks as nobody than

Mark and cronies can withdraw the balance !

And please watch the volume !   

Do you really need another laywer fabricated announcement of why some force -majeure is to blame

that zilch of our funds can be retrieved  ?  OMG

Again, as its been said OVER and OVER in this thread:

• this is not about Karpeles "running away" with customer funds. Betting on Gox's honesty is a pretty safe bet, as Gox has proven its integrity for years
• this is about facts adding up and raising a lot of red flags: i) absurd explanations on unbelievable banking limits, which affect outgoing transfers only; ii) serious problems with LE ($6M seized) and other players (Coinlab - $6M gone) which resulted in loss of funds; iii) lack of transparency in their PR and possible incompetence in managing their business; iv) desperate moves to raise more and more fees (totally unjustified 5% "ransom fee" - 5% is a huge amount, folks; not halting trading when they have should; etc.)

When you add all that and you analyze their press releases, you can see that something very wrong is happening, and they are not being transparent with it. Despite of sturle's efforts to explain the unexplainable, the above facts remain. Anybody who works with banks on a regular basis knows that the "daily limit" is UTTER BULLSHIT, if you have some kind of limit (which normally YOU DON'T), you just adjust it to your volume - if you need to make a freaking $3M transfer, you do it and your bank charge you for it - that's their business model folks. If they aren't, that's because Gox (or their bank) is struggling with something, and that is RISKY.

Furthermore, numbers DO NOT LIE. The huge spread we have witnessed between Gox and the others comes for a reason. Sturle tried to convince us that he was making loads of money doing arbitrage, implying that the spread existed only because people is stupid and was not using the situation to their advantage because of fear, uncertainity and doubt. But let me tell you something: that's BS. Markets do not work that way. If there is a 20% arbitrage opportunity, which basically means "free money", arbitrageurs will take the opportunity and the gap will close almost instantly. If that doesn't happen, it is because it is simply not possible. I tried myself, for Christ sake, and I failed miserably because you cannot simply do arbitrage in such a volatile market if your funds are stuck on one of the ends FOR WEEKS.

Making a long story short: we are getting close to the tipping point. Will see what happens soon - but its not looking good. Anybody saying that Gox/Karpeles are thieves, etc. is just a noob or has a hidden agenda to push. But the fact remains: due to incompetence, legal pressure or whatever other reason not related to Gox's honesty, customers funds are at risk - and they have been for +10 months now. There has been plenty of time to get out, folks. In any case, now its time either to cash in huge winnings (eg. -> buying $100 coins on Gox) or to swallow a loss. Whatever happens, there has been PLENTY of information for everybody to make their choice.

If this automatic resend is really true, mtgox could have lost HUGE amounts of money in a short period of time:

A thief could have simply withdrawn his btc from his goxwallet to an external btc wallet, they would be resend automatically (or even two or three or four times) due to the malleability without even the need to contact customer support, and then he could redeposit these external bitcoins (now much more) back into his mtgox btc account. Then he could start this cycle again. Because this cycle does not involve any fiat withdrawals or fiat deposits at all, the cycle could have been done very fast and a lot of times with exponentially more bitcoins each time.

This would be really disastreous to mtgox.

that's blubber.

So oviously no panicked japanese selling GoxBTC ?

Let me hear the voices of reason to shut down the background noise :

Who´s BTC´s have been sold and are sold in ever increasing quanteties at MT. Gox at a discount of 90 % ?

No dreaming up of hoghwash can lead to another fact then:

Mt. Gox has been bankrupted intentionally and the shell is being left to the laywers !

Repost for visibility:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5278421

Yeah, sorry.

In Japan, when someone does something where they don't want to be recognized, one typically wears a hood and medical facemask (and maybe sunglasses for a 'total sketch' look). Even without the glasses though, this makes one tough to pick out. Medical facemasks are worn regularly in Japan by people of all ages; high population density makes cold/flu spread very easily. There is much controversy as to whether this is in anyway effective but people do it anyway. So, wearing a mask hides your identity pretty well, but it's socially acceptable. Putting a hood up on top of that though, crosses some vague line in the Japanese mind. Haha thats really the only way I can describe it.

Hoodies are pretty popular here. I've never seen anyone use the hood barring a serious snowstorm. Its fashionable, but people dont put them up, unless they are committing a crime. Google 'downtown tokyo in winter'. You'll see facemasks but no hoods.

Anyhow Japan functions largely on image alone, so I was just pointing out that these guys look very sketchy dressed like that, even if its not their intention.

Oh and, it being Tokyo, it hit 9 deg C today. Its not that cold here.

Karpless is heating inside so he don't need to wear warm cloths

Incidentally, it seems to have escaped most observers that the Mt. Gox BTCUSD rate is much closer to a sensible rate bitcoin would have if it were used only as a means of paying for goods and services, i.e. as a trade currency, without all the crazy "to the moon" hype and speculation, which creates bubble after bubble.

I have predicted a price of $20 several months ago, assuming that the last bubble would burst completely. Meanwhile the adoption of bitcoin by brick-and-mortar businesses has exceeded my expectations, so I might have to correct my estimate upward a bit, but it would still remain well within the double-digit range. Now the Mt. Gox price has indeed entered the double-digit range briefly.

But I recognize that the Mt. Gox price is unlinked from the rest of the world, so this is probably just a funny coincidence.

Another point seems to have escaped almost everybody here. The Mt. Gox announcements, when read and analyzed attentively, seem to be naively honest. They openly admit to their own mistakes. I cannot discern any attempt in them to mislead the public. (They may or may not constitute such an attempt.) Any experienced PR person could write announcements that are much better suited to misleading the public into believing that all is well.

This could mean two things. Either the person writing these announcements is really fairly honest, even invoking self-criticism, or the team is unbelievably incompetent and completely unaware of its own incompetence.

It could be a mixture of both, and ultimately I cannot make much sense of it. Just wanted to mention it.

This was funny, care to elaborate?

Maybe the usual custom in Japan is to wear only a t-shirt while its freezing cold and snowing like Karpeles does?

i couldnt bear to watch the whole 90 minutes thats posted on that website, but from what i can see... very ineffective. some token reporters that were headed to gox anyway, ALL english speakers.

is one guy handing out beers? and one dude is actually wearing google glass? so what, their IQs average out to like... 60?

embarassing.

also sitting around with their hoodies up in japan looks super sketchy. they failed to get their message across to everyone "irl", including gox. so in short this was a lame reddit stunt.

me too, no deposit and no respond.

The 20 day rule is explained as a way for every one to get a chance at withdrawals, instead of one large holder of cash to just tie up the "queue" for months with a rush of individual maximum withdrawals all initiated at the same time. 

It is plausible, given an effective limit as above.    On the other hand if there were a flow of 200,000 Euro a day, outgoing, then I am sure we would hear about a lot more people getting large chunks of it.  So, yes, it has got to be hogwash anyway.     

I know that the BZ WBK (Bank) has very low limits on withdrawals.
I am not sure if they really can withdraw more than 50.000 EUR / Day, I don't think so.
There is a day and a transaction limit.

They used to have a story about how they could only pay out 60,000 Euro a day, and that withdrawals greater than 50,000 Euros had to be split up in chunks of 50,000 at most.   Last I recall it is still on the FAQ somewhere.

Actually, I have it on good authority, that since the 1st of February 2014 there is no longer any limit on SEPA transfers except that the form that banks have to use only accepts up to 9 digits plus two decimal points.  You can Google for the SEPA  rule changes that are effective for the first of this month.  Doesn't mean that individual banks can't make their own rules, especially a Polish bank which not actually in the EUROzone, but is in the EU, and has an understanding with EUROzone members.   EUROzone officials frown on exceptions though, so such banks can be threatened through the special agreements to comply with the rules that promote commerce, or discontinue the arrangement. 

Somehow I doubt the MtGox is paying out even 60,000 Euro a day, except maybe to themselves, the proceeds of their crimes.  I suspect the token amounts are just honey to attract flies.

Either the above, or the "20 day rule" is hogwash. Which one?