Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 308. (Read 908751 times)

Quote from: sturle on August 19, 2013, 01:17:36 PM

Ah. So the BTC-E discrepancy is due to difficulties getting fiat in and out of the exchange, while the MtGox discrepancy is due to distrust? That's a new one!

If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.

I think it is the other way around. Discrepancies are high for both due to difficulties getting fiat in or out. MtGox price, volume, depth and liquidity is higher because people trust MtGox more than they trust BTC-E.

That is incorrect. The price discrepancy between BitStamp/Gox (12-15%) vs BitStamp/BTC-e (1-3%) is magnitudes smaller. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Eh? You tell me "this" is incorrect (What is incorrect?) and make no attempt to prove it. The difference in volume of the two exchanges is way more than 10x. Depth and liquidity as well.

Volume, depthe, and liquidity has little to do with price difference given that ARB opportunities would bring prices between two exchanges into a much more narrower range than they currently are.

Pretty sure some people or group are successfully arbing (maybe japan locals?), we keep seeing massive great BTC sell walls @ BTC-e to keep price down. Wouldn't be in this groups interest to spoil the large spread.

This is likely true. But my point is directed at the big money and not the small money. Obviously the big money is not local to Japan when speaking about arb Bitcoin price opportunities. Otherwise the gap would have closed by now. If there was a Japanese whale the gap would close much much faster. Free money is not going to be passed up.

joesmoe2012

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This is all a mute argument.

Quote from: smoothie on August 19, 2013, 01:54:56 PM

And I personally think that "Mark knows it's all over".
Now you have _a_ source: me.

You think a lot of strange things. Like that friends and family of MtGox staff has to pay a 5% fee to withdraw funds from MtGox, instead of the standard 200 yen fee for a next day domestic transfer, and present it like they have an advantage. You are a troll, oyvinds. Nothing less. Your personal thoughts aren't worth much.

lol of course they don't pay more than the 200 yen fee, if that.

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Quote from: sturle on August 19, 2013, 01:53:58 PM

Quote from: zeroblock on August 19, 2013, 01:40:39 PM

Ah. So the BTC-E discrepancy is due to difficulties getting fiat in and out of the exchange, while the MtGox discrepancy is due to distrust? That's a new one!

If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.

I think it is the other way around. Discrepancies are high for both due to difficulties getting fiat in or out. MtGox price, volume, depth and liquidity is higher because people trust MtGox more than they trust BTC-E.

That is incorrect. The price discrepancy between BitStamp/Gox (12-15%) vs BitStamp/BTC-e (1-3%) is magnitudes smaller. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Eh? You tell me "this" is incorrect (What is incorrect?) and make no attempt to prove it. The difference in volume of the two exchanges is way more than 10x. Depth and liquidity as well.

Volume, depthe, and liquidity has little to do with price difference given that ARB opportunities would bring prices between two exchanges into a much more narrower range than they currently are.

Pretty sure some people or group are successfully arbing (maybe japan locals?), we keep seeing massive great BTC sell walls @ BTC-e to keep price down. Wouldn't be in this groups interest to spoil the large spread.

Zarathustra

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Quote from: sturle on August 19, 2013, 01:53:58 PM

If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.

And why did their market share crash from 75 to 45 percent within weeks?
I guess because the smart money is leaving and the dumb money is still waiting (for godot).

smoothie

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Quote from: zeroblock on August 19, 2013, 01:40:39 PM

Quote from: zeroblock on August 19, 2013, 01:40:39 PM

Ah. So the BTC-E discrepancy is due to difficulties getting fiat in and out of the exchange, while the MtGox discrepancy is due to distrust? That's a new one!

If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.

I think it is the other way around. Discrepancies are high for both due to difficulties getting fiat in or out. MtGox price, volume, depth and liquidity is higher because people trust MtGox more than they trust BTC-E.

That is incorrect. The price discrepancy between BitStamp/Gox (12-15%) vs BitStamp/BTC-e (1-3%) is magnitudes smaller. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Eh? You tell me "this" is incorrect (What is incorrect?) and make no attempt to prove it. The difference in volume of the two exchanges is way more than 10x. Depth and liquidity as well.

Volume, depth, and liquidity has little to do with price difference given that ARB opportunities would bring prices between two exchanges into a much more narrower range than they currently are.

An example I personally could do as a customer of both BTC-e, Bitstamp, and GOX is buy bitcoin on BTC-e/bitstamp and sell for 10-15% profit on GOX.

The reason I don't do that is there is no way to get fiat out from gox in any meaningful timeframe. TIME = Money.

I don't believe I am in the MINORITY when it comes to that. The arbitrage vs the risk of GOX defaulting is not worth it. Essentially if you cant get fiat out of GOX there is no difference in your fiat than playing on a FREE forex trading account with "funny money".

sturle

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Quote from: zeroblock on August 19, 2013, 01:40:39 PM

Ah. So the BTC-E discrepancy is due to difficulties getting fiat in and out of the exchange, while the MtGox discrepancy is due to distrust? That's a new one!

If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.

I think it is the other way around. Discrepancies are high for both due to difficulties getting fiat in or out. MtGox price, volume, depth and liquidity is higher because people trust MtGox more than they trust BTC-E.

That is incorrect. The price discrepancy between BitStamp/Gox (12-15%) vs BitStamp/BTC-e (1-3%) is magnitudes smaller. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Eh? You tell me "this" is incorrect (What is incorrect?) and make no attempt to prove it. The difference in volume of the two exchanges is way more than 10x. Depth and liquidity as well.

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Quote from: smoothie on August 19, 2013, 01:18:56 PM

Quote from: smoothie on August 19, 2013, 01:02:27 PM

MTGOX only started having really huge withdrawal of fiat problems since May 2013. So no zeroblock has enough data points to show the huge discrepancy in price holding above 14%.

Not to prove his claim of no such discrepancies before that date. Try to make a similar graph for BTC-E and MtGox for the lifetime of BTC-E. "Because BTC-E is more trusted?" Nah.

BTC-e requires lots of fees to get fiat into and out of the exchange.

That spread has been known for a very LONG TIME.

This new spread between GOX and all other exchanges is nothing that has been explained thoroughly through fees etc and is not justified by anything I am aware of other than mistrust in the exchange itself.

Ah. So the BTC-E discrepancy is due to difficulties getting fiat in and out of the exchange, while the MtGox discrepancy is due to distrust? That's a new one!

If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.

I think it is the other way around. Discrepancies are high for both due to difficulties getting fiat in or out. MtGox price, volume, depth and liquidity is higher because people trust MtGox more than they trust BTC-E.

That is incorrect. The price discrepancy between BitStamp/Gox (12-15%) vs BitStamp/BTC-e (1-3%) is magnitudes smaller. You are comparing apples to oranges.

+1

Sturle you perhaps should do the math yourself on the discrepancies in percentage and also look into the fees that BTC-e charges to get fiat in and out. MTGOX doesn't charge that much to get fiat in and out (given they actually allow fiat in and out).

Your response is obviously overlooking the very well known price difference between GOX and BTC-e due to FEEs and highlighting it as if it is "normal" trading when there is a legitimate reason for the price difference concerning BTC-e, Unlike GOX.

GOX does not charge large fees for fiat deposits or withdrawals and yet still has a 10%+ discrepancy that has not be explained by anything but mistrust.

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Quote from: smoothie on August 19, 2013, 01:18:56 PM

Quote from: smoothie on August 19, 2013, 01:02:27 PM

MTGOX only started having really huge withdrawal of fiat problems since May 2013. So no zeroblock has enough data points to show the huge discrepancy in price holding above 14%.

Not to prove his claim of no such discrepancies before that date. Try to make a similar graph for BTC-E and MtGox for the lifetime of BTC-E. "Because BTC-E is more trusted?" Nah.

BTC-e requires lots of fees to get fiat into and out of the exchange.

That spread has been known for a very LONG TIME.

This new spread between GOX and all other exchanges is nothing that has been explained thoroughly through fees etc and is not justified by anything I am aware of other than mistrust in the exchange itself.

Ah. So the BTC-E discrepancy is due to difficulties getting fiat in and out of the exchange, while the MtGox discrepancy is due to distrust? That's a new one!

If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.

I think it is the other way around. Discrepancies are high for both due to difficulties getting fiat in or out. MtGox price, volume, depth and liquidity is higher because people trust MtGox more than they trust BTC-E.

That is incorrect. The price discrepancy between BitStamp/Gox (12-15%) vs BitStamp/BTC-e (1-3%) is magnitudes smaller. You are comparing apples to oranges.

sturle

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Quote from: smoothie on August 19, 2013, 01:18:56 PM

Quote from: smoothie on August 19, 2013, 01:02:27 PM

MTGOX only started having really huge withdrawal of fiat problems since May 2013. So no zeroblock has enough data points to show the huge discrepancy in price holding above 14%.

Not to prove his claim of no such discrepancies before that date. Try to make a similar graph for BTC-E and MtGox for the lifetime of BTC-E. "Because BTC-E is more trusted?" Nah.

BTC-e requires lots of fees to get fiat into and out of the exchange.

That spread has been known for a very LONG TIME.

This new spread between GOX and all other exchanges is nothing that has been explained thoroughly through fees etc and is not justified by anything I am aware of other than mistrust in the exchange itself.

Ah. So the BTC-E discrepancy is due to difficulties getting fiat in and out of the exchange, while the MtGox discrepancy is due to distrust? That's a new one!

If we are to believe the order books, a lot more BTC and their fiat is trusted to MtGox than to BTC-E.

I think it is the other way around. Discrepancies are high for both due to difficulties getting fiat in or out. MtGox price, volume, depth and liquidity is higher because people trust MtGox more than they trust BTC-E.

smoothie

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Quote from: smoothie on August 19, 2013, 01:02:27 PM

MTGOX only started having really huge withdrawal of fiat problems since May 2013. So no zeroblock has enough data points to show the huge discrepancy in price holding above 14%.

Not to prove his claim of no such discrepancies before that date. Try to make a similar graph for BTC-E and MtGox for the lifetime of BTC-E. "Because BTC-E is more trusted?" Nah.

BTC-e requires lots of fees to get fiat into and out of the exchange.

That spread has been known for a very LONG TIME.

This new spread between GOX and all other exchanges is nothing that has been explained thoroughly through fees etc and is not justified by anything I am aware of other than mistrust in the exchange itself.

sturle

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And I personally think that "Mark knows it's all over".
Now you have _a_ source: me.

You think a lot of strange things. Like that friends and family of MtGox staff has to pay a 5% fee to withdraw funds from MtGox, instead of the standard 200 yen fee for a next day domestic transfer, and present it like they have an advantage. You are a troll, oyvinds. Nothing less. Your personal thoughts aren't worth much.

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Quote from: Walsoraj on August 19, 2013, 12:33:57 PM

Quote from: stereotype on August 19, 2013, 08:21:07 AM

Someone who has collaborated with Gox, once said to me, "Mark knows its all over".

reveal source or gtfo w/ your fudding

Who cares. I used to trade at MtGox, have not had funds there or used it for ages but I did "collaborate" with them by trading there.

And I personally think that "Mark knows it's all over".

Now you have _a_ source: me.

Is this the new scientific standard?

And I personally think that the moon is made of cheese. source: me.

sturle

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Quote from: smoothie on August 19, 2013, 01:02:27 PM

MTGOX only started having really huge withdrawal of fiat problems since May 2013. So no zeroblock has enough data points to show the huge discrepancy in price holding above 14%.

Not to prove his claim of no such discrepancies before that date. Try to make a similar graph for BTC-E and MtGox for the lifetime of BTC-E. "Because BTC-E is more trusted?" Nah.

smoothie

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Quote from: sturle on August 19, 2013, 10:58:59 AM

Quote from: zeroblock on August 19, 2013, 10:45:28 AM

Lol is that an attempt at an insult? Actually no there hasn't been sustained 20% variances. Maybe tiny blips for a few minutes but none that carry throughout the day. Yesterday did have a 14.65% sustained spread though, an all time record high.

20% wasn't sustained either. Bitstamp followed MtGox's lead after a while, like a good dog. A bit more reluctant than usual, but still did. And spread is back to "normal" for the last week.

17:56 mtgox premium over bitstamp is currently 12.2196192237 %.

Your graph only starts at the end of April, and still has too few datapoints.

MTGOX only started having really huge withdrawal of fiat problems since May 2013. So no zeroblock has enough data points to show the huge discrepancy in price holding above 14%.

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Quote from: stereotype on August 19, 2013, 08:21:07 AM

Someone who has collaborated with Gox, once said to me, "Mark knows its all over".

reveal source or gtfo w/ your fudding

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My wires to bitstamp usually clear the next business day. Never had an issue with bitstamp crediting wires.

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Quote from: zeroblock on August 19, 2013, 11:15:14 AM

Quote from: sturle on August 19, 2013, 10:58:59 AM

20% wasn't sustained either. Bitstamp followed MtGox's lead after a while, like a good dog. A bit more reluctant than usual, but still did. And spread is back to "normal" for the last week.

17:56 mtgox premium over bitstamp is currently 12.2196192237 %.

Your graph only starts at the end of April, and still has too few datapoints.

I never said 20% was sustained. See chart above. You can easily see where price variations happen with a loss of faith at Gox. There is plenty of data points to gain a good perspective on the issue. Jesus you are a Gox fanboy with that dog statement. So do you consider 10-15% spreads "normal" because it isn't normal and never has been between Gox and Bitstamp until Gox starting running into financial/legal problems! Charts above prove it!

There is a different perspective which you are happy to ignore: Deposit problems at Bitstamp. You have one exchange which many people can't withdraw fiat from, and another one which many people can't deposit fiat to. The result can hardly surprise anyone, and has nothing to do about trust.

MtGox volume is many times the volume of Bitstamp. The large leads the small. Surprising? No.

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Quote from: sturle on August 19, 2013, 10:58:59 AM

Quote from: zeroblock on August 19, 2013, 10:45:28 AM

Lol is that an attempt at an insult? Actually no there hasn't been sustained 20% variances. Maybe tiny blips for a few minutes but none that carry throughout the day. Yesterday did have a 14.65% sustained spread though, an all time record high.

20% wasn't sustained either. Bitstamp followed MtGox's lead after a while, like a good dog. A bit more reluctant than usual, but still did. And spread is back to "normal" for the last week.

17:56 mtgox premium over bitstamp is currently 12.2196192237 %.

Your graph only starts at the end of April, and still has too few datapoints.

I never said 20% was sustained. See chart above. You can easily see where price variations happen with a loss of faith at Gox. There is plenty of data points to gain a good perspective on the issue. Jesus you are a Gox fanboy with that dog statement. So do you consider 10-15% spreads "normal" because it isn't normal and never has been between Gox and Bitstamp until Gox starting running into financial/legal problems! Charts above prove it!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2963387

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Quote from: zeroblock on August 19, 2013, 10:45:28 AM

Lol is that an attempt at an insult? Actually no there hasn't been sustained 20% variances. Maybe tiny blips for a few minutes but none that carry throughout the day. Yesterday did have a 14.65% sustained spread though, an all time record high.

20% wasn't sustained either. Bitstamp followed MtGox's lead after a while, like a good dog. A bit more reluctant than usual, but still did. And spread is back to "normal" for the last week.

17:56 mtgox premium over bitstamp is currently 12.2196192237 %.

Your graph only starts at the end of April, and still has too few datapoints.

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Quote from: sturle on August 19, 2013, 10:31:07 AM