Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 324. (Read 908613 times)

SWIFT is compliant with relatively recent (few years) international AML rules which require all covering payments to include details of the payment that they cover.  Indeed, SWIFT introduced the MT 202 COV message a few years ago specifically to comply with AML requirements.

I think the AML rules trump the SWIFT rules.  No US correspondent bank will process a covering payment for a transaction that (they believe) violates US law, and SWIFT would be mad to try and draft a contract that requires them to violate US law.

roy

Very unlikely. If a US bank did that, it would be visible at the US customer end. Nobody is saying that Mt. Gox claimed they sent a USD wire transfer and the funds were not received by the recipient. Nobody is saying that they sent a wire transfer to Mt. Gox and it was rejected by their sending bank.

Quit trying to find excuses for Mt. Gox.

Looks like the SEPA backlog is getting shorter quickly, i'm still waiting SWIFT from 6/17.

Got today a SEPA-Withdraw (1000 EUR)

Withdraw requested on: 2013/06/27

Cleared: 2013/08/06

Tell me about it... been waiting a month now, don't want to use them again and the support just replies with canned responses that don't really update you on the status!

Gox might not like outsiders jumping in for a cut to something that might be a very lucrative and dominating way for them to make profit currently. Gox could also very much like the difference in exchange rates in their current situation. On the other hand Gox could very much like outsiders jumping in to give Gox more capital to work with. What I am saying that you might experience unexpected(?) delays on getting USD out from Gox to your new JP account. Also since you don't know exactly what are the problems Gox is having with the banks you might also experience an unexpected(?) freeze on your account in the JP bank if the bank suspects you are working as a front for Gox.

i think the only way around this, right now, is to have someone set up a corporation in Japan, sell BTC on Gox, transfer to corporate bank account in JP ideally denominated in USD, then transfer to bitstamp or btce. buy btc there, transfer to mtgox, and repeat cycle...  

this would cause the exchange rates to equalize.

someone would need to have sufficiently large funding of this to make it worth the hassle of the extra paperwork and fees...

+1 Gox's silence on the DWOLLA issue they never really addressed as they said they would back when it first came out (3 months ago?). That speaks volumes. Then the sudden "TWO WEEK" delay which from what I gather is more like 7-8 weeks currently.

Both of these two issues combined + silence really isn't a good thing. Reminds me of when a ponzi (not that they were running one) goes bust there is a TWO WEEK delay and then silence or excuses. In this case, silence.

The withdrawal queues are definitely at MtGox because people can wait 6 or 8 weeks for their transfer, request a cancel, and the funds are credited to their trading account immediately. So the wires are not being actioned. "Confirmed" means "we will do it one day, if ever".


I agree with this that Gox's transfers are being throttled by their banks. Probably because of US pressure after the Dwolla/MSB fiasco. There must be a daily dollar cap, which means only their biggest, most elite, whale customers get looked after. Everyone else spins in the wind.

You are right there. AFAIK A SEPA transfer has to clear within 48 hours.
I think that the alleged "queue" is at Gox, not at the bank.
The bank only accepts transfers up to a certain amount per day and rejects the rest.
They are allowed to do so. AFAIK there is always a cap to transfers in any bank account's terms and conditions.
So the bank is legally in the clear.

Side note: last SEPA transfers seem to have arrived from Germany not Poland. Can anyone confirm?

The goal of SEPA was to improve cross border payments (lower the costs involved), there isn't a  "1 day transfer" in the spec ;-)

Would that be legal?
After all SEPA has been created with the purpose of having 1-day transfers, so I kind of doubt a bank can "just delay them".

4

makes sense

4, 5 or 6 figures?

Got another SEPA EUR

Withdraw on: 2013/06/11

Cleared: 2013/08/06

"Patience is the art of hoping."

Ok here's my speculation of the day:

There is at least one major international bank (Citi) which is part of many SWIFT chains and is refusing transfers to/from Gox.
Maybe Bank of America is also causing troubles along the chain. Why? Because they can. ("yeah Gox, come after us in court if you can afford it")
Those banks are playing dirty tricks like refusing some of the transfers and causing late chargebacks. That would explains why Japan transfers are allegedly working fine.
The SEPA problem is of different nature: all SEPA banks atm honour the transfers but the MtGox business is "not so desirable" for the Polish bank they use, whatever reason there might be. So SEPA is slow because the bank put a cap on the maximum amounts that can go out via SEPA.

MtGox chooses not to clearly communicate the banking problems they are having because doing so would cause a sudden run on them. A slow death is better than a sudden death. Maybe at this point in time they still hope to bring down their volume to a manageable size without totally disappearing into oblivion.

The bad banks work by flagging / blacklisting accounts so in order to counteract their measures Gox is trying to play hide and seek: open a number of accounts with other banks. Splitting the money across multiple pots allows them to be more resistant to individual account freezes. But it also implies a management overhead and extra costs for moving the money across accounts / keeping them replenished.

In the meanwhile nobody knowns the size of the Dwolla seizure, nor whether any other seizures have happened, nor the amount of damage caused by reversed deposits.

As of today, were there to be a run on Gox, they would end up insolvent and bankrupt. Which still has a high likeliness to happen.
I think they are hanging around hoping to find a way out of the tunnel.

Just wanted to add my experiences with MtGox to the pile...

I sold $26,000 USD worth of coin on MtGox in mid June 2013 and made 3 withdrawals to my Thai bank account (10k, 10k and 6k respectively) between 15-19 June (my withdrawal limit is 10k USD).

Waited 10 business days before sending them the first support ticket, asking for a status update. Got the standard reply posted by others on this thread.
Each subsequent ticket I sent (about 1 per week) was immediately closed by their support staff without any explanation whatsoever.

Finally, on July 25th I sent them a ticket saying:


Support staff replied within an hour:


Note that they immediately went ahead and cancelled my withdrawals, even though I never explicitly stated I wanted them cancelled.
Being very concerned at this point, I bought coin again and moved them to Bitstamp.

I went through their ID and address verification process within 24 hours, sold all my coin and made a withdrawal for the full amount.
On 1 Aug I got an email from Bitstamp staying that my transaction had been processed.
Somewhat surprisingly, the fee for this transaction of $25,600 USD was only $20.

Today, Aug 7 I received the full amount in my Thai bank account.

At least some exchanges seem to do what we all expect of them.
I can accept delays and issues, but being ignored for 7 weeks at MtGox is just unacceptable.

Cheers.

Yes, there is.

21. Redress Procedure
(a) Without prejudice to the application of mandatory provisions of law and of Articles 6 and 7 of the Service Level Master Agreement, the Originator shall be entitled to claim from its Originator’s Bank:
(i) a refund of the principal amount, any Transfer Fees and foreign exchange commissions debited, for any credit transfer not credited to the Beneficiary within twenty (20) Business Days from Acceptance;
(ii) compensation for lost interest for any credit transfer which is not completed within six (6) Business Days from Acceptance as required under this Service Level. The redress so owed (whether of principal, interest or a refund of Transaction Charges) shall be credited to the Originator within fifteen (15) Business Days from his request, provided, that redress claims must be presented within forty (40) Business Days from Acceptance, failure of which they shall not be accepted.

That's what you do if Mt. Gox claims that a SWIFT wire transfer has not been paid to them. (You can claim lost interest after six days, but with today's low interest rates, there's no point.) The bank will then trace the transaction (and probably tell you that the funds are already in Mt. Gox's account.)

Note that you have to make this claim between day 20 and day 40 after sending funds. 

That is how foreigners can get a bank account in the US too. You're right, it costs thousands. I was doubting sturle's claim because normally retail banks don't offer offshore accounts. If you open a corporate account in jp you are still not going to be able to withdraw from MtGox because the bank account will be in the corp's name, not yours.