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Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 325. (Read 908613 times)

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
August 06, 2013, 11:10:18 PM
I'm starting to wonder whether MtGox might not be under LEA control.
There is no need to travel to Japan to open a bank account there, btw.  Easiest (and quite expensive) is to contact an attorney in Japan to make the arrangements.  You may contact a bank directly as well, but be prepared for a time consuming process of getting all the formalities in order.

Do you have a source for that claim? googling I find many that say only residents of Japan may open a bank account there.

 either way you should be able to set up a corporate sub in JP and then set up a corporate bank account but it\s not going to be cheap
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
August 06, 2013, 11:02:30 PM
I'm starting to wonder whether MtGox might not be under LEA control.
There is no need to travel to Japan to open a bank account there, btw.  Easiest (and quite expensive) is to contact an attorney in Japan to make the arrangements.  You may contact a bank directly as well, but be prepared for a time consuming process of getting all the formalities in order.

Do you have a source for that claim? googling I find many that say only residents of Japan may open a bank account there.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
August 06, 2013, 06:58:56 PM
Interesting point about SWIFT. I wonder if there is a facility where people who are depositing to MtGox can make an official complaint to SWIFT if the process takes >6 days.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
August 06, 2013, 06:56:17 PM
And BTW, why would the bank "reject" credits after holding them for a few days?

Imagine you are outside the US.  Gox, of course, is also outside the US.  You wire USD to Gox.  Your bank sends a message to Gox's bank instructing them to credit Gox's account, which they do.  In parallel with this, they send instructions to arrange a covering payment between the US banks that your bank and Gox's bank use to settle USD payments (so called 'correspondent banks')

One or other of the correspondent banks' compliance departments then decides to refuse the covering payment for some reason.  So Gox's bank finds itself out of pocket, because it has not been paid the funds for the transfer.  So obviously Gox's bank reverses the transfer.

We've had at least one report of a withdrawal wire being reversed a couple of weeks after the fact (apparently as a result of Citibank's compliance department blocking a covering payment) so it's not at all surprising that similar has happened with deposit wires.

roy

Was that for an international wire transfer through the SWIFT system? Details would be useful.  SWIFT rules don't allow banks to revoke transactions for SwiftPay transactions up to USD 20,000 (50,000 EUR between banks in the EU). Settlement has to occur within six days. "Priority" transactions are even less revocable. Banks have to sign a service level agreement with SWIFT to use the system. Once the bank has sent payment instructions via SWIFT, the bank is obligated to cover them with bank funds. It's not at the option of the sending bank. 

ACH is different. That's more of a consumer-level system, with more "undo" features.
legendary
Activity: 1437
Merit: 1002
https://bitmynt.no
August 06, 2013, 06:05:42 PM
I'm starting to wonder whether MtGox might not be under LEA control.
Why would any LEA delay wires to countries outside Japan?  There is no need to travel to Japan to open a bank account there, btw.  Easiest (and quite expensive) is to contact an attorney in Japan to make the arrangements.  You may contact a bank directly as well, but be prepared for a time consuming process of getting all the formalities in order.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
August 06, 2013, 05:58:00 PM
I'm starting to wonder whether MtGox might not be under LEA control.
What's LEA?

Huh Law Enforcement Agency
hero member
Activity: 563
Merit: 500
August 06, 2013, 05:57:44 PM
And BTW, why would the bank "reject" credits after holding them for a few days?

Imagine you are outside the US.  Gox, of course, is also outside the US.  You wire USD to Gox.  Your bank sends a message to Gox's bank instructing them to credit Gox's account, which they do.  In parallel with this, they send instructions to arrange a covering payment between the US banks that your bank and Gox's bank use to settle USD payments (so called 'correspondent banks')

One or other of the correspondent banks' compliance departments then decides to refuse the covering payment for some reason.  So Gox's bank finds itself out of pocket, because it has not been paid the funds for the transfer.  So obviously Gox's bank reverses the transfer.

We've had at least one report of a withdrawal wire being reversed a couple of weeks after the fact (apparently as a result of Citibank's compliance department blocking a covering payment) so it's not at all surprising that similar has happened with deposit wires.

roy
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Bitgoblin
August 06, 2013, 05:45:29 PM
I'm starting to wonder whether MtGox might not be under LEA control.
What's LEA?
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
August 06, 2013, 05:03:05 PM
I'm starting to wonder whether MtGox might not be under LEA control.
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1000
August 06, 2013, 07:40:54 AM
Just to throw in my datapoint again....

My oldest wire is from 6/17 to USA in USD, still waiting (high 5 figures).

Have a few other wires pending as well.

Still nothing.

i had some dating back to the 13th. I had them cancel it, bought bitcoins, moved to another exchange.

Been happier ever since. Gox has serious management issues. To the point that the risk and frustration of moving funds in and out is not worth it. Rather just take my business elsewhere.



I have done the same and its fine now using other exchanges like bitstamp and bitfinex ( by the way , I am not associated with those in any way, just observing and trying to find the best solution in this MtGox fiasco )
hero member
Activity: 520
Merit: 500
August 06, 2013, 07:25:26 AM
Even though there is a 10% difference in exchange rates between MtGox and Bitstamp, I think the risk of insolvency is much higher. The markets have too much faith in MtGox, probably because they have been the largest exchange and it's hard to understand why they could screw it up so badly.

At least they are still allowing withdrawals to be canceled so BTC can be rebought and moved back to a private wallet without delay. The next step will probably be delaying large BTC withdrawals.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Bitgoblin
August 06, 2013, 03:33:35 AM
Yep, good point. And BTW, why would the bank "reject" credits after holding them for a few days?
Because the banking system is an old crumbling behemoth?
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
August 06, 2013, 12:01:45 AM

Yep, good point. And BTW, why would the bank "reject" credits after holding them for a few days?

It's probably possible that funds sent via a bank transfer from a stolen account can be reversed, specially if the stolen report comes shortly after the transfer.

you go it basically

http://www.reba.net/news/wtransfer but this is only for US, who knows what the rules are in JP
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1001
August 05, 2013, 09:42:53 PM

Yep, good point. And BTW, why would the bank "reject" credits after holding them for a few days?

It's probably possible that funds sent via a bank transfer from a stolen account can be reversed, specially if the stolen report comes shortly after the transfer.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
August 05, 2013, 08:35:58 PM
It's almost as if MTGox has hired Butterfly Labs to manage their wire transfer division.

+1
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
August 05, 2013, 08:29:28 PM
It's almost as if MTGox has hired Butterfly Labs to manage their wire transfer division.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
August 05, 2013, 08:29:01 PM
New Press release: https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20130805.html

Gox apparently has lost "significant" amounts of money to crediting bank deposits prior to them clearing. Hmmmm. I'd want to know how much "significant" is.

Yep, good point. And BTW, why would the bank "reject" credits after holding them for a few days?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
August 05, 2013, 07:40:46 PM
I did the same mistake, you did a ping for mtgox.com not for your www.mtgox.com.
The mistake is keeping money there

I don't.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Bitgoblin
August 05, 2013, 07:16:29 PM
I did the same mistake, you did a ping for mtgox.com not for your www.mtgox.com.
The mistake is keeping money there
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
August 05, 2013, 04:36:04 PM
I did the same mistake, you did a ping for mtgox.com not for your www.mtgox.com.
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