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Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 66. (Read 908727 times)

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
March 07, 2014, 06:53:39 AM
To be fair, bitstamp did announced last year that all users need to be verified in order to withdraw fiat/btc and gave almost a month prior they start to do it.
You should check the facts prior making accusations and false claims
This is what we are talking about, I guess you misread our posts.

Their so-called "warning" was only "somewhere" on the site, and they did not bother to send an email warning.
So, if you had funds there and didn't notice the warning on the site, you had no way to know it.

Since they obviously are able to send emails, not doing so is absolutely inexcusable, and clear indication that they did not want their warning to be actually read by most users.

I guess you have missed my later post so i will repeat. It was not somewhere on their site, it was on their main page where it belong!! There is no other place where they could put announcement! Bitstamp did it right, you just avoid to see it.
Bitstamp announced it on their hompage on 4.th sep 2013. giving users the time till end of september to verify. So that is almost a month a notice of the news! Next, all users need to check regulary the site, its in their tos, i suggest to read it. And finaly, all users who had switched off news notifications did not get any email from bitstamp. I dont know what else bitstamp could!
Main site is primary for their business, its up to users to be informed and read related uses of service and news. Email notification can be switched off and with spam filter and phishing its unsafe and secundary for communications.
And bitstamp did not took the funds from the users who did not want to get verified - they did terminated their account and returned the funds according to their terms of service ( read termination).
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
March 07, 2014, 05:37:52 AM
Holding someone's money hostage is a big deal.

I left mtgox in June last year after it was obvious they were blatantly lying with their TwoWeeksTM mantra, and were holding money hostage.

You knew this too and allowed $5k to get stuck on gox. Just because you like hammering gox you don't need to hammer bitstamp as well. Bitstamp have behaved honorably at all times.

Some of us tried to close accounts in early May, you were lucky, don't call other people stupid!!
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
March 06, 2014, 02:36:02 PM
Are you seriously suggesting that the Gox bank account had 270eur but didn't have 960eur at any one point in time?

More or less ...

They (mtgox) may have implemented a "queue system" on their side so that every day :
- they check the balance of the account (last day balance = 0 ; new balance = sum of incoming transfers of the day)
- they pick as many "waiting wires" from their queue system as they can, starting with the smaller and older ones, up to the point where they can no longer pay
- they send the money, the new balance is 0 again ...

"Sorry it's not our fault guys, the bank refuses to send more money than we have"

this... is exactly what happens when a company dives into insolvency, and yes, a perfectly feasible explanation.

Yes it makes perfect sense. But if insolvency is really involved, then they've been insolvent for a long time now. I know people used to wait for some SEPA withdrawals for months on end, even in its heyday.

Ok, well, my withdrawal was actually confirmed, so I guess I had some bad luck that Gox probably had no money left at the time to make the transfer take place. Although it seems that not all is lost yet, as i've read a few days ago that Gox plans to continue business in an attempt to pay its customers back, as stated here (copy paste from an article from coindesk.com):

“In order to increase repayments to our creditors, it is necessary to explore the possibility of having MtGox Co., Ltd. continue its business. This is why the civil rehabilitation procedure has been chosen, Rebuilding MtGox Co., Ltd under the supervision of the court in a legally organized procedure while giving proper explanations will not be for the sole benefit of the company but for that of the whole bitcoin community.

All efforts will now be made to restore the business and recover damages to repay debts to creditors. We hope for the understanding and cooperation of all.”

I guess it's all in the hands of the court, as they are waiting for a decision from it: http://www.reddit.com/r/MtGox/comments/1zpm6h/mtgox_20140303_qa_in_english/)

So I guess all we can do is wait and hope for the best?

sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
March 06, 2014, 07:17:42 AM
So this:

"Comprehensive Prohibition Order Judgment Announcement
Rehabilitation debtor MtGox Co., Ltd. received on February 28, 2014 a comprehensive
prohibition order from the Tokyo District Court. Following the instructions of the Court, the text
of the judgment is hereby published:
No forced execution or preliminary attachment or disposition shall be made by a
rehabilitation creditor on the basis of a rehabilitation debt with regard to the properties
of the rehabilitation debtor during the period until a decision shall be made with regard
to the application for commencement of civil rehabilitation."

TLDR: Black-magic lawstuff maybe a few % of creditors understand.


Means this: http://www.reddit.com/r/MtGox/comments/1zpm6h/mtgox_20140303_qa_in_english/  ??

which means?

Honestly wtf is going on ? anyone?


it's basically a temporary financial protection order. Common practice for companies who think they are going to get away scot-free.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
March 06, 2014, 07:03:39 AM
So this:

"Comprehensive Prohibition Order Judgment Announcement
Rehabilitation debtor MtGox Co., Ltd. received on February 28, 2014 a comprehensive
prohibition order from the Tokyo District Court. Following the instructions of the Court, the text
of the judgment is hereby published:
No forced execution or preliminary attachment or disposition shall be made by a
rehabilitation creditor on the basis of a rehabilitation debt with regard to the properties
of the rehabilitation debtor during the period until a decision shall be made with regard
to the application for commencement of civil rehabilitation."

TLDR: Black-magic lawstuff maybe a few % of creditors understand.


Means this: http://www.reddit.com/r/MtGox/comments/1zpm6h/mtgox_20140303_qa_in_english/  ??

which means?

Honestly wtf is going on ? anyone?
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Bitgoblin
March 06, 2014, 06:25:04 AM
To be fair, bitstamp did announced last year that all users need to be verified in order to withdraw fiat/btc and gave almost a month prior they start to do it.
You should check the facts prior making accusations and false claims
This is what we are talking about, I guess you misread our posts.

Their so-called "warning" was only "somewhere" on the site, and they did not bother to send an email warning.
So, if you had funds there and didn't notice the warning on the site, you had no way to know it.

Since they obviously are able to send emails, not doing so is absolutely inexcusable, and clear indication that they did not want their warning to be actually read by most users.
sr. member
Activity: 1097
Merit: 310
Seabet.io | Crypto-Casino
March 06, 2014, 06:20:37 AM
So they are really trying to re-open the exchange, even though the schedule is unknown.. Shocked
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
March 06, 2014, 06:07:52 AM
there is some pdf in japanese on the site

can someone translate it as google translate is not helpful

thanks
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
March 06, 2014, 05:53:41 AM

Yes it makes perfect sense. But if insolvency is really involved, then they've been insolvent for a long time now. I know people used to wait for some SEPA withdrawals for months on end, even in its heyday.

agreed, just check the OP date. And if Gox have been relying on deposit transactions to pay withdrawals, for an awful long time, is it criminal? Have they lied about their balances? or simply 'not offered correct information' whichever it is, it's going to be a long drawn process for anyone who had funds in there.
full member
Activity: 181
Merit: 100
March 06, 2014, 05:49:15 AM
Are you seriously suggesting that the Gox bank account had 270eur but didn't have 960eur at any one point in time?

More or less ...

They (mtgox) may have implemented a "queue system" on their side so that every day :
- they check the balance of the account (last day balance = 0 ; new balance = sum of incoming transfers of the day)
- they pick as many "waiting wires" from their queue system as they can, starting with the smaller and older ones, up to the point where they can no longer pay
- they send the money, the new balance is 0 again ...

"Sorry it's not our fault guys, the bank refuses to send more money than we have"

this... is exactly what happens when a company dives into insolvency, and yes, a perfectly feasible explanation.

Yes it makes perfect sense. But if insolvency is really involved, then they've been insolvent for a long time now. I know people used to wait for some SEPA withdrawals for months on end, even in its heyday.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
March 06, 2014, 05:45:46 AM
Are you seriously suggesting that the Gox bank account had 270eur but didn't have 960eur at any one point in time?

More or less ...

They (mtgox) may have implemented a "queue system" on their side so that every day :
- they check the balance of the account (last day balance = 0 ; new balance = sum of incoming transfers of the day)
- they pick as many "waiting wires" from their queue system as they can, starting with the smaller and older ones, up to the point where they can no longer pay
- they send the money, the new balance is 0 again ...

"Sorry it's not our fault guys, the bank refuses to send more money than we have"

this... is exactly what happens when a company dives into insolvency, and yes, a perfectly feasible explanation.
full member
Activity: 181
Merit: 100
March 06, 2014, 05:22:11 AM
Anyone still got his money back recently? Still waiting for a withdrawal done by the end of January. Should I presume the money is lost?
If mtgox was honest and the delays were due to the banks taking so long, the money would be on the way to you.
If mtgox was lying and they kept the money on purpose, the money is still at mtgox and by now seized.

Banks themselves can never "take so long". It's plain and clear Gox was withholding SOME funds on purpose, even for SEPA transfers. The reason I say SOME, is this:

I had 2 SEPA withdrawals from Gox:

1) 960€ on 24Jan, never arrived
2) 270€ on 6Feb, arrived 22Feb

Now why in the fuck would they process the later withdrawal sooner than the earlier withdrawal??

OR you could read it as :

MtGox was not "withholding" any funds, and the bank processed the wires in the next open day as they always do for all of their customers with only ONE condition : that there were funds on the account first.

"960€ ? Sorry Mr K. we cannot do that because you account contains only 459€"
"270€ ? Yes that we can do. Now you only have 189€ left. Have a nice day"



Thing is Gox do not have a separate bank account for each one of their customers. So whatever per-customer withdrawal limit is set is not set by the bank, but artificially by Gox.

They could have send the 960 just as well as they did the 270, I'm sure their bank account would not be "depleted" (not correct word I know) by this single withdrawal. But they chose not to.

I am not saying they had a separate bank account per customer.

I am saying that their whole corporate account did not have enough funds to send your 960€ at any time after the 24th of january but happened to have more than 270€ around the 20th of february.

Banks DO send wires in a matter of days. Whatever the amount. Always. That is their f*****g job.

They only ask ONE thing : that the the money exists on THEIR books before sending it out.

Evidences suggests MtGox funds have been depleted for months if not years.



Are you seriously suggesting that the Gox bank account had 270eur but didn't have 960eur at any one point in time?
member
Activity: 95
Merit: 10
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
March 06, 2014, 04:34:01 AM
Gox updated their website again. Announcements are now in pdf-format and there's new one with line:

"No forced execution or preliminary attachment or disposition shall be made by a rehabilitation creditor on the basis of a rehabilitation debt with regard to the properties of the rehabilitation debtor during the period until a decision shall be made with regard to the application for commencement of civil rehabilitation."

If I understood correctly, it says that no one is going to get anything before authorities make decision on rehabilitation.
full member
Activity: 181
Merit: 100
March 06, 2014, 04:31:59 AM
Anyone still got his money back recently? Still waiting for a withdrawal done by the end of January. Should I presume the money is lost?
If mtgox was honest and the delays were due to the banks taking so long, the money would be on the way to you.
If mtgox was lying and they kept the money on purpose, the money is still at mtgox and by now seized.

Banks themselves can never "take so long". It's plain and clear Gox was withholding SOME funds on purpose, even for SEPA transfers. The reason I say SOME, is this:

I had 2 SEPA withdrawals from Gox:

1) 960€ on 24Jan, never arrived
2) 270€ on 6Feb, arrived 22Feb

Now why in the fuck would they process the later withdrawal sooner than the earlier withdrawal??

OR you could read it as :

MtGox was not "withholding" any funds, and the bank processed the wires in the next open day as they always do for all of their customers with only ONE condition : that there were funds on the account first.

"960€ ? Sorry Mr K. we cannot do that because you account contains only 459€"
"270€ ? Yes that we can do. Now you only have 189€ left. Have a nice day"



Thing is Gox do not have a separate bank account for each one of their customers. So whatever per-customer withdrawal limit is set is not set by the bank, but artificially by Gox.

They could have send the 960 just as well as they did the 270, I'm sure their bank account would not be "depleted" (not correct word I know) by this single withdrawal. But they chose not to.
full member
Activity: 181
Merit: 100
March 06, 2014, 03:57:48 AM
Anyone still got his money back recently? Still waiting for a withdrawal done by the end of January. Should I presume the money is lost?
If mtgox was honest and the delays were due to the banks taking so long, the money would be on the way to you.
If mtgox was lying and they kept the money on purpose, the money is still at mtgox and by now seized.

Banks themselves can never "take so long". It's plain and clear Gox was withholding SOME funds on purpose, even for SEPA transfers. The reason I say SOME, is this:

I had 2 SEPA withdrawals from Gox:

1) 960€ on 24Jan, never arrived
2) 270€ on 6Feb, arrived 22Feb

Now why in the fuck would they process the later withdrawal sooner than the earlier withdrawal??
member
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
March 06, 2014, 03:25:09 AM
Anyone still got his money back recently? Still waiting for a withdrawal done by the end of January. Should I presume the money is lost?
If mtgox was honest and the delays were due to the banks taking so long, the money would be on the way to you.
If mtgox was lying and they kept the money on purpose, the money is still at mtgox and by now seized.
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
March 06, 2014, 02:48:08 AM
Who remembers hashlast, bfl, and mtjokes say, we want help the community.  Someone please please step right up to defending this good guys. 
So You want to help the community?
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
March 05, 2014, 07:09:47 PM

I dont understand why are you constantly providing disinformation or give misleading info as they have that data under their 'about us' page? Domain name registar is irrelevant. They have provided their address and company info, people have been visit them! Domain owner registar have nothing to do with a company, it could be that its registered to owner personal home address or old slovenian. I dont find it concerning, if you do, you are free to ask them whyband maybe to explain to you what is a domain name and what is a company what has separate register regulated by laws.

And you are mixing two different issues, ident theaft is one thing and mtgox situation another.
Like other poster said, you hammer honest exchange and spreaded in this short conversation a lot of false claims.

Link
https://www.bitstamp.net/about_us/

Give bitstamp company address, not what you have posted!

If you do not want to submit verification docs then dont, but do not provide false information and tag them as suspicious!

I didn't mean to indicate that the whois info came from the web sites.  I presented both 'about us' web pages for comparison.

There does not seem to be some sort of a hard and fast regulation that EU companies have to separate their domain registry from other parts of their business if that is what you are trying to indicate:

Registrant Name: Heinrich Wunram
Registrant Organization: Siemens AG
Registrant Street: Wittelsbacherplatz 2
Registrant City: Muenchen
Registrant State/Province: Bayern
Registrant Postal Code: 80333
Registrant Country: DE

Postal & Mail Contact
Siemens AG
Wittelsbacherplatz 2
80333 Munich
Germany

When a company is not trying to hide or obscure data, the above is about what I would expect.   When they are we typically see something more along the lines of what we see with Bitstamp.  Just sayin'.

I doubt that I am the only one in Bitcoinland who does some cursory checking of things like this, nor would I be surprised if Bitstamp lost some customers by not being a little more straight-up about their operations.


No, i do not find this concerning. Domain can be anybody. Info regarding their company is visible and on their site where it belong. They did not trie to hide it or obscure it! Its there, are you blind?
Iam sure bitstamp does not lose sleep over somebody who find it as a red flag. Accuse them when they really do something wrong and alarming, untill then, they are good. Again, if you do not want to be verified in order to trade on bitstamp its fine, go somewhere else, but dont tag them as dishonest or that they try to hide something.
If you are so worried then go ahead and email privacy protection and ask them to comment.
I do not see how relevant is of domain registar privacy? Important thing is that they are registered company what can be verified online and with reall office where people have visit them. Privacy protection can mean many things what is beyond your understanding.
Company siemens does not exchange bitcoin to fiat and its really irelevant example.
And again, there is no reason of bitstamp to hide domain registar unless is under bitstamp owner name or some other concerning thing what can be very easy to understund. I do not want to enter assumption game and to me bitstamp is great and honest exchange.
I have said all i had, enough is enough.
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