MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 70.

exocytosis

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Quote from: cafminer1 on March 03, 2014, 11:02:33 AM

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

Exactly. I've been repeating this as well, but now Karpeles is increasingly being painted as a goofy, incompetent good guy who just happened to "lose" hundreds of millions worth of BTC and fiat, while also continuing to receive new fiat and BTC deposits right until the very end. (Even after the site was gone, actually.)

The guy is a criminal. We know that much.

donk4u

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Quote from: tvbcof on March 03, 2014, 05:01:25 PM

Quote from: donk4u on March 03, 2014, 04:22:26 PM

...
Some people have had their life savings frittered away by these incompetent bungling boobs and oh its an inconvenience.

Anyone who had their 'life savings' in Mt. Gox either didn't have more than they cannot earn it back by flipping burgers for a month or two, or they are so stupid that they were likely to lose it anyway before long even if Mt. Gox had never existed.

lolz its the victims fault they got fleeced you dumb troll knew i shouldn't have hit unignore to see what your dumb self had to say you probably know more then anyone about flipping burgers and mopping lavratory floors

tvbcof

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Quote from: donk4u on March 03, 2014, 04:22:26 PM

...
Some people have had their life savings frittered away by these incompetent bungling boobs and oh its an inconvenience.

Anyone who had their 'life savings' in Mt. Gox either didn't have more than they cannot earn it back by flipping burgers for a month or two, or they are so stupid that they were likely to lose it anyway before long even if Mt. Gox had never existed.

donk4u

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We first express our most sincere regrets and apologies for this situation and for causing so much inconvenience to all our users and other interested parties. We will fully respect the above orders and maintain our assets with all the necessary care.

It is so blood boiling to have these asshats refer to theft of bitcoins as an inconvenience. I hope someone inconvinently ******* Karpleses throat. Some people have had their life savings frittered away by these incompetent bungling boobs and oh its an inconvenience.

tvbcof

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Quote from: donk4u on March 03, 2014, 03:07:22 PM

Quote from: cafminer1 on March 03, 2014, 11:02:33 AM

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

Mt gox was taking new signups up until the eve of going dark freaking criminals.

They were also paying out according to some reports.

If Mt. Gox were under orders to maintain business operations in a somewhat normal manner then it is not cut-n-dried that they would be defined as criminals. Either in a court of law, or by a reasonable definition of the term IMHO. I'm still reserving judgement on a specific label for Karpeles until more facts are in. But I've pretty much ruled out defining Karpeles as whatever Ladar Levison is.

Squeaker

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Quote from: Lohoris on March 03, 2014, 06:53:54 AM

Quote from: grifferz on March 03, 2014, 03:49:34 AM

Quote from: Squeaker on March 02, 2014, 08:08:26 PM

about the only thing that keeps pushing bitcoin prices up, is the cost of the hashpower to find each coin, and as more people keep adding more, it'll just keep going up.

So would you argue that if you spend $5mil creating a bronze bust of Mark Karpeles that you will be able to sell it for at least $5mil?

I don't think supply and demand works that way.

It "works that way" IF all the involved people are acting rationally.
i.e. if you know that you will be likely able to sell it, then you create it, and not the other way around.

Exactly!

We saw an example of this a couple(few?) years ago when over the summer, the trading price dropped below 3 USD per BTC, and miners were turning off their gear as it wasn't profitable to keep mining at the time.

Fewer miners, made each coin cheaper to mine.

When the price rose again above that break-even point, most of that mining power came back online... and the smart miners, took the opportunity of the downtime, to rebuild and upgrade their rigs to be more efficient, bringing their own costs to mine down, and were better positioned to capitalize on the price rise again.

=squeak=

Squeaker

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Quote from: grifferz on March 03, 2014, 03:49:34 AM

Quote from: Squeaker on March 02, 2014, 08:08:26 PM

about the only thing that keeps pushing bitcoin prices up, is the cost of the hashpower to find each coin, and as more people keep adding more, it'll just keep going up.

So would you argue that if you spend $5mil creating a bronze bust of Mark Karpeles that you will be able to sell it for at least $5mil?

I don't think supply and demand works that way.

Are you going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on mining gear to add hashpower to the network, to constantly lose money? You're not going to sell your coin at a loss if you can help it, and like it or not, the costs involved in mining, do have an impact on the prices that people are willing to buy and sell coin at.

So yes, supply and demand is still in effect.

It isn't all about the exchanges...

=squeak=

donk4u

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Quote from: cafminer1 on March 03, 2014, 11:02:33 AM

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

Mt gox was taking new signups up until the eve of going dark freaking criminals.

ex_trin

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I do not understand.
If they still have 60% percent of the funds, then let them by common agreement of all returned at the expense of 60%, the exact same return to its creditors by 60%. and will continue to work to eliminate vulnerabilities. Of course first and foremost should be investigated, and then do as I suggested. I think anyone would agree to return 60% instead of 0.

cafminer1

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Of course the late coming money was gambling.

What makes MtGox absolutely not less criminal when allowing it to happen.

That, is not crime. This, yes, it is.

BTW: BTC is "sky rocketing" again right now, back to 700. Karpeles spending the "stolen" money? ;-)

newguy05

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Someone is sitting in the shade today...

Quote from: rcocchiararo on March 03, 2014, 12:26:35 PM

Quote from: WuttWutt on March 03, 2014, 12:02:39 PM

Quote from: theshazbot on March 03, 2014, 11:57:05 AM

Quote from: cafminer1 on March 03, 2014, 11:02:33 AM

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

yep – and in fact I actually wire transferred $15,000 the same day the website was shut down. Fuck me.

ya right

I know a few guys that, like the one you quoted, gabled on gox comming back, so they transfered money on the last days when goxBTC was dirty cheap.

He might be telling the truth Tongue

Those are just pure speculators they know the counterparty risk very clearly and made a bet, nothing wrong with that but no need to cry about it afterwards for being on the wrong side. It's essentially buying a credit default swap on a c-rated company for $0.2 on the $1, not a bet i would personally made.

It's the clueless average joe who decided to invest some money in bitcoins, who doesnt read the forums, and thought mtgox is just like fidelity that are victims. And they will now stay away from bitcoins, most probably cant even tell the difference between mtgox and bitcoin, still thinking bitcoin went down.

This is why bitcoin foundation is doing such a disservice by leaving gox on the gold list, not warning anyone, then act all surprised when gox broke the news.

donk4u

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Wtf is the point of a call center? Hi mt gox i have coin on your site. Operator: we are bankrupt sorry for the inconvenience. You: oh ok ty for your help

ilpirata79

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I have in fact bougth some bitcoins when they were cheap because I had already fiat trapped there. I wouldn't have done that had I known there were no real bitcoins to buy.
If they decide to value my gox btc 0 I will make that present...

Best regards,
ilpirata79

rcocchiararo

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Quote from: WuttWutt on March 03, 2014, 12:02:39 PM

Quote from: theshazbot on March 03, 2014, 11:57:05 AM

Quote from: cafminer1 on March 03, 2014, 11:02:33 AM

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

yep – and in fact I actually wire transferred $15,000 the same day the website was shut down. Fuck me.

ya right

I know a few guys that, like the one you quoted, gabled on gox comming back, so they transfered money on the last days when goxBTC was dirty cheap.

He might be telling the truth Tongue

WuttWutt

newbie

Activity: 28

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Quote from: theshazbot on March 03, 2014, 11:57:05 AM

Quote from: cafminer1 on March 03, 2014, 11:02:33 AM

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

yep – and in fact I actually wire transferred $15,000 the same day the website was shut down. Fuck me.

ya right

theshazbot

jr. member

Activity: 54

Merit: 10

Quote from: cafminer1 on March 03, 2014, 11:02:33 AM

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

yep – and in fact I actually wire transferred $15,000 the same day the website was shut down. Fuck me.

cafminer1

newbie

Activity: 52

Merit: 0

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

roslinpl

legendary

Activity: 2212

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Quote from: itsunderstood on March 03, 2014, 03:13:32 AM

maybe sue mybe not.
Depend on what we can have from it...

from MtGox for now you can have nothing.

Totscha

hero member

Activity: 1276

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Quote from: Rampion on March 03, 2014, 07:06:04 AM

Quote from: Lohoris on March 03, 2014, 06:50:56 AM

Quote from: mayax on March 02, 2014, 05:11:43 PM

it's obvious that Bitstamp has a problem with its platform and it may sink soon.

I don't think the problems are coming from their bank. Their account is OK but their system is sinking...It may be the next MtGox.

Only... they are anonymous, so sueing them might be much more complicated.
Which also means they are more likely to just grab any funds they still have and run.

Excuse me, who is anonymous? Are you talking about Bitstamp? Their management has always been very public:

https://twitter.com/nejc_kodric
http://www.crunchbase.com/person/nejc-kodric
http://si.linkedin.com/pub/nejc-kodri%C4%8D/47/227/299
http://si.linkedin.com/pub/damijan-merlak/16/667/4a9?trk=pub-pbmap

Plus you can find other Bitstamp employees on Linkedin just by searching "Bitstamp" with no problem. I really don't know where does this myth about Bitstamp being "anonymous" comes from, Coindesk always mentions Nejc when writes about Stamp, Nejc has a btctalk account under his real name which he used to post about his company when he founded it, when you open a ticket on Stamp the support agent always signs the reply with his first+last name...

And for Christ sake you just need to google "Bitstamp CEO" to find dozens (if not hundreds) of links about Nejc Kodric.

He probably had them confused them with BTC-E...

cAPSLOCK

legendary

Activity: 3766

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Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

People confuse Bitstamp with BTC-e.

Because Slovania = Russia = Latvia = Czech Republic = Russia in many people minds.

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