Nefario - page 68. | Bitcointalksearch.org

johnlu

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Quote from: freeAgent on October 08, 2012, 10:21:35 AM

I agree on pretty much all points. Nefario needs to at the very least provide the records of ownership in GLBSE-listed securities to the issuers of said securities. The site now reads:

Quote

Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today.

I had a tiny amount in the exchange itself, but my ownership of securities previously listed there is more important. We still have no idea what Nefario plans to do about that.

Does anybody knows how will they returning bitcoins? Are they going to send an email message to every account in GLBSE?

Smoovious

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Scattering my bits around the net since 1980

Quote from: freeAgent on October 08, 2012, 10:21:35 AM

I agree on pretty much all points. Nefario needs to at the very least provide the records of ownership in GLBSE-listed securities to the issuers of said securities. The site now reads:

Quote

Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today.

I had a tiny amount in the exchange itself, but my ownership of securities previously listed there is more important. We still have no idea what Nefario plans to do about that.

I, for one, am very interested to find out, just where they plan on returning the bitcoin to, and how they are determining which address they plan to use to return them to...

-- Smoov

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

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Newbie

Quote from: the_thing on October 08, 2012, 07:41:58 AM

Haven't been here for a few days. Please could anyone sum up the situation for me?
I'm getting my popcorn ready Wink

Drama again.

HorseRider

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ok. neferio had said to garr that after like two hours later, he is going to pay back. i am drunk now, but i remember his words.

k3t3r

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Quote from: JoelKatz on October 08, 2012, 09:12:20 AM

Quote from: k3t3r on October 08, 2012, 08:30:27 AM

who did he scam?

At the very least, every GBLSE customer who relied on him to protect their ownership interest in their assets.

Has he not done this. I have not been told that my assets are no longer mine. I am just waiting for the instructions to be able to provide details to my issuers. These issuers have also been contacted and are waiting for me to provide them with my proof of ownership. I dont trust anybody else to have access to that database until this has taken place.

Quote

At the moment, we have no verifiable information explaining why GLBSE was shut down, but it does appear to have been done on Nefario's orders. GBLSE has the only ownership records for GLBSE-listed assets.

yes, and you can understand why other people would want that taken out of Nefario's hands. the more people that have access to that database the harder it is to protect ownership of those assets.

Quote

(It's entirely possible this was no scam and Nefario's actions were compelled by others. And it's possible he will make good to the extent possible and is really under duress. But it's also possible this was a huge scam all along and many of the assets were fake, owned by Nefario secretly, and Nefario orchestrated the whole thing to walk away with thousands of bitcoins. We don't know, and we shouldn't speculate. But we can't wait forever to act either.)

both of these are a possibility and neither have been proven. but the MO here seems to be guilty until proven innocent.

conspirosphere.tk

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Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: irritant on October 08, 2012, 09:45:18 AM

maybe he is hold in custody? that's why he is remaining silent?

I kinda would like that very much. For a long time.

freeAgent

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Quote from: JoelKatz on October 08, 2012, 09:12:20 AM

Quote from: k3t3r on October 08, 2012, 08:30:27 AM

who did he scam?

At the very least, every GBLSE customer who relied on him to protect their ownership interest in their assets. At the moment, we have no verifiable information explaining why GLBSE was shut down, but it does appear to have been done on Nefario's orders. GBLSE has the only ownership records for GLBSE-listed assets.

(It's entirely possible this was no scam and Nefario's actions were compelled by others. And it's possible he will make good to the extent possible and is really under duress. But it's also possible this was a huge scam all along and many of the assets were fake, owned by Nefario secretly, and Nefario orchestrated the whole thing to walk away with thousands of bitcoins. We don't know, and we shouldn't speculate. But we can't wait forever to act either.)

For the record, Nefario getting a scammer tag was *never* the result I wanted. That really doesn't help anybody. It's the sad result of Nefario's inability, chosen or compelled, to remain silent while others are relying on him to hold up his end of various bargains.

I agree on pretty much all points. Nefario needs to at the very least provide the records of ownership in GLBSE-listed securities to the issuers of said securities. The site now reads:

Quote

Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today.

I had a tiny amount in the exchange itself, but my ownership of securities previously listed there is more important. We still have no idea what Nefario plans to do about that.

chrisrico

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He's not in custody, he's logged in to the forum and has been responding to emails (and phone calls apparently).

Shadow383

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Quote from: irritant on October 08, 2012, 09:45:18 AM

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 08, 2012, 09:12:20 AM

For the record, Nefario getting a scammer tag was *never* the result I wanted. That really doesn't help anybody. It's the sad result of Nefario's inability, chosen or compelled, to remain silent while others are relying on him to hold up his end of various bargains.

maybe he is hold in custody? that's why he is remaining silent? I would like to know more information too .. Huh

Likely as not he's been told by his lawyer to remain totally silent.

Didn't he say that he was having a meeting with his lawyer on Tuesday?

irritant

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Sodium hypochlorite, acetone, ethanol

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 08, 2012, 09:12:20 AM

For the record, Nefario getting a scammer tag was *never* the result I wanted. That really doesn't help anybody. It's the sad result of Nefario's inability, chosen or compelled, to remain silent while others are relying on him to hold up his end of various bargains.

maybe he is hold in custody? that's why he is remaining silent? I would like to know more information too .. Huh

jasinlee

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Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 08, 2012, 09:12:20 AM

Quote from: k3t3r on October 08, 2012, 08:30:27 AM

who did he scam?

At the very least, every GBLSE customer who relied on him to protect their ownership interest in their assets. At the moment, we have no verifiable information explaining why GLBSE was shut down, but it does appear to have been done on Nefario's orders. GBLSE has the only ownership records for GLBSE-listed assets.

(It's entirely possible this was no scam and Nefario's actions were compelled by others. And it's possible he will make good to the extent possible and is really under duress. But it's also possible this was a huge scam all along and many of the assets were fake, owned by Nefario secretly, and Nefario orchestrated the whole thing to walk away with thousands of bitcoins. We don't know, and we shouldn't speculate. But we can't wait forever to act either.)

For the record, Nefario getting a scammer tag was *never* the result I wanted. That really doesn't help anybody. It's the sad result of Nefario's inability, chosen or compelled, to remain silent while others are relying on him to hold up his end of various bargains.

And if we did wait to apply the tag, then he would have further opportunities to pull other confidence scams to drag in a few extra btc while he has the free roaming of the forums without being hindered.

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: k3t3r on October 08, 2012, 08:30:27 AM

who did he scam?

At the very least, every GBLSE customer who relied on him to protect their ownership interest in their assets. At the moment, we have no verifiable information explaining why GLBSE was shut down, but it does appear to have been done on Nefario's orders. GBLSE has the only ownership records for GLBSE-listed assets.

(It's entirely possible this was no scam and Nefario's actions were compelled by others. And it's possible he will make good to the extent possible and is really under duress. But it's also possible this was a huge scam all along and many of the assets were fake, owned by Nefario secretly, and Nefario orchestrated the whole thing to walk away with thousands of bitcoins. We don't know, and we shouldn't speculate. But we can't wait forever to act either.)

For the record, Nefario getting a scammer tag was *never* the result I wanted. That really doesn't help anybody. It's the sad result of Nefario's inability, chosen or compelled, to remain silent while others are relying on him to hold up his end of various bargains.

senor_coconut

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a big question mark

Quote from: BadBear on October 08, 2012, 08:09:41 AM

I've decided Nefario will get a scammer tag for this. Speculating on intents and motivations behind his actions is fun and all, but it doesn't really have any bearing on whether he broke his contract or not. Like I said in Goat's thread, my role is to decide if he deserves a scammer tag based on his actions. If Nefario can't or won't elaborate on why he took the actions he did, that's his problem and he should take it up with the appropriate people.

Even if he doesn't have control over his current actions (which I doubt), he did have control when he decided to start the business, and he did have control when he made the agreement and sold pieces of the company to the shareholders.

This was a pretty good analogy that made me look at it a different way.

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 06, 2012, 05:45:20 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 12:55:09 AM

You cant sue people for obeying the law. Which is basically what Nefario is doing,

That is absolutely not true. Otherwise, an unlicensed contractor could make a contract to do some work for you, take your money, and then say, "Sorry, I'm unlicensed. I can't legally do the work."

Quote

and you cant force the shareholders to do something illegal.

Of course, but it's always legal to pay damages. You're certainly right that you couldn't force the contractor in my example to do the work. But you can certainly get your money back alone with any other damages, including punitive damages.

Quote

If it goes well people will get their coins back, it sucks that AMl is involved but you gotta do what you gotta do.

That's pure speculation at this point, at least so far as I know. If the contractor in my example says, "Sorry, the contracting board says I'm not licensed to do the work. Bye.", do you just take his word for it and let him off the hook for any damages you suffered? Asset owners have suffered damages because they relied on GLBSE.

Good. Seems logical. Doing things like he has and on top keeping radio silence just deserves the tag.

Now... I'd like to get my coins back.
And if I don't, which I probably won't, I'd like to suggest creating an asset at another exchange to vent my anger: BHNEF, or "Bounty Hunting for Nefario", Reservoir Dogs styla... Grin

TbbW

newbie

Activity: 20

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This sucks... i only had have sent between 7 and 10 bitcoins... i thought glbse was not a scammer site... this realy... realy... sucks...

I did not add my identification to my account... only my email... so i guess i'm pritty much fsck'ed when it comes to gettiny my bitcoins back Sad

Rygon

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Merit: 500

Quote from: repentance on October 07, 2012, 06:50:24 PM

Quote from: Rygon on October 07, 2012, 06:25:16 PM

Wow. This is crazy. Although I don't follow the forums daily, it seems like this came out of the blue. I actually thought GLBSE was one of the more reputable BTC sites. I was in the process of liquidating some things on there and pulling my money out, mostly because I didn't see any investments that was worth the risk. Now I'm out about 40 BTC. Sigh.

There's no reason at this point to believe that users won't get their funds returned. There might be open conflict between the shareholders, but no-one's suggested that GLBSE has insufficient funds at this point to pay its users. While any involvement by regulators would slow down the repayment process (it took a very long time for people who had funds caught up in the online poker bust to have their funds returned), there is no credible evidence of any regulatory agency being involved at this point - this decision seems to be an attempt to pre-empt such a possibility.

Don't get me wrong, I believe this has been handled appallingly and that the attempt at revisionism by those associated with GLBSE is nauseating, but assumptions that users won't be repaid are somewhat premature. If Nefario is already melting down over the possibility of GLBSE coming under legal scrutiny, it seems incredibly unlikely that he'd intentionally do something like not paying users which would actively invite legal scrutiny.

Just read enough of this thread to realize that everything is just wild speculation at this point. At least from the perspective of the casual user. I suppose there is still a chance to get back funds, but it gets less likely with every day that goes by, IMO.

Mushoz

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Bitbuy

Quote from: BadBear on October 08, 2012, 08:09:41 AM

I've decided Nefario will get a scammer tag for this. Speculating on intents and motivations behind his actions is fun and all, but it doesn't really have any bearing on whether he broke his contract or not. Like I said in Goat's thread, my role is to decide if he deserves a scammer tag based on his actions. If Nefario can't or won't elaborate on why he took the actions he did, that's his problem and he should take it up with the appropriate people.

Even if he doesn't have control over his current actions (which I doubt), he did have control when he decided to start the business, and he did have control when he made the agreement and sold pieces of the company to the shareholders.

This was a pretty good analogy that made me look at it a different way.

Quote from: JoelKatz on October 06, 2012, 05:45:20 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 12:55:09 AM

You cant sue people for obeying the law. Which is basically what Nefario is doing,

That is absolutely not true. Otherwise, an unlicensed contractor could make a contract to do some work for you, take your money, and then say, "Sorry, I'm unlicensed. I can't legally do the work."

Quote

and you cant force the shareholders to do something illegal.

Of course, but it's always legal to pay damages. You're certainly right that you couldn't force the contractor in my example to do the work. But you can certainly get your money back alone with any other damages, including punitive damages.

Quote

If it goes well people will get their coins back, it sucks that AMl is involved but you gotta do what you gotta do.

That's pure speculation at this point, at least so far as I know. If the contractor in my example says, "Sorry, the contracting board says I'm not licensed to do the work. Bye.", do you just take his word for it and let him off the hook for any damages you suffered? Asset owners have suffered damages because they relied on GLBSE.

Thanks!

dishwara

legendary

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The funny/worst part is on 3rd October 2012, I sent my personal details to GLBSE to reset 2 factor authentication on my account.

Just 5 minutes before chatted to Nefario on his gmail account.

AndrewBUD

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Quote from: dishwara on October 08, 2012, 08:32:55 AM

Quote from: AndrewBUD on October 08, 2012, 08:17:05 AM

I am curious why scammer tags don't include a ban? Or at least a posting ban

Everyone has freedom to express his/her views.
Besides, we need accused to express his/her views.
If we don't allow to post, then we cant hear what they say or trying to say.

Some calling Nefario scammer & some not.
Around 50 BTC is in my GLBSE account.
I don't know what to do, except just read other replies.

4 persons I trusted in this forum very much.
Theymos, Gavin, Sathoshi & Nefario.
Now only has 3 to trust.

I understand... but IRL if you defraud someone you go to jail. Maybe have a forum jail where scammer tagged people can speak only? Seems like a minor punishment for being a douche bag.

dishwara

legendary

Activity: 1855

Merit: 1016

Quote from: AndrewBUD on October 08, 2012, 08:17:05 AM

I am curious why scammer tags don't include a ban? Or at least a posting ban

Everyone has freedom to express his/her views.
Besides, we need accused to express his/her views.
If we don't allow to post, then we cant hear what they say or trying to say.

Some calling Nefario scammer & some not.
Around 50 BTC is in my GLBSE account.
I don't know what to do, except just read other replies.

4 persons I trusted in this forum very much.
Theymos, Gavin, Sathoshi & Nefario.
Now only has 3 to trust.

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: theymos on October 08, 2012, 08:17:35 AM

Quote from: BadBear on October 08, 2012, 08:09:41 AM

I've decided Nefario will get a scammer tag for this.

Thank you.

Lmao did you ask your forum's moderator to give you a scammer tag too, for that little "selling on undisclosed insider knowledge" affair? Or is it the case that since nobody was sucker enough to buy your worthless interest in that worthless scamenterprise of yours, bitcoin.me's and others', it's all candy and rosewater?

Topic: Nefario - page 68. (Read 198674 times)