Nefario - page 81. | Bitcointalksearch.org

gweedo

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Quote from: SlaveInDebt on October 06, 2012, 02:57:10 PM

Quote from: Bogart on October 06, 2012, 02:47:31 PM

Quote from: SlaveInDebt on October 06, 2012, 02:38:29 PM

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

I did nothing wrong. All I did was open an account (on Oct 4th), and deposit 50 BTC. Then boom, it's all gone. I wanted to buy some shares of ASICMINER, but did not get the chance to.

How is any of this "dirt"?

You became involved with an illegal activity as soon as you deposited. You got in the dirt. Not your fault for what has occurred but it's the law intervening that is at fault. Not being diligent enough to know the risk involved was yours however.

I'm not here to cast blame on anyone other than the law. Just pointing out where one's responsibility ends and where another's begins.

Where are these laws? Bitcoins has no laws, and no fiat currency was used in GLBSE.

SlaveInDebt

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Quote from: Bogart on October 06, 2012, 02:47:31 PM

Quote from: SlaveInDebt on October 06, 2012, 02:38:29 PM

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

I did nothing wrong. All I did was open an account (on Oct 4th), and deposit 50 BTC. Then boom, it's all gone. I wanted to buy some shares of ASICMINER, but did not get the chance to.

How is any of this "dirt"?

You became involved with an illegal activity as soon as you deposited. You got in the dirt. Not your fault for what has occurred but it's the law intervening that is at fault. Not being diligent enough to know the risk involved was yours however.

I'm not here to cast blame on anyone other than the law. Just pointing out where one's responsibility ends and where another's begins.

jasinlee

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

Quote from: Bogart on October 06, 2012, 02:47:31 PM

Quote from: SlaveInDebt on October 06, 2012, 02:38:29 PM

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

I did nothing wrong. All I did was open an account (on Oct 4th), and deposit 50 BTC. Then boom, it's all gone. I wanted to buy some shares of ASICMINER, but did not get the chance to.

How is any of this "dirt"?

I feel your pain, sucks when a ~~exchange~~ confidence scam decides its time to pack up shop before the restless natives decide to burn your house to the ground. I had not even accomplished anything on the site due to their terrible customer service. And then Nefario decides to close up shop and pocket my btc.

Bogart

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Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: SlaveInDebt on October 06, 2012, 02:38:29 PM

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

I did nothing wrong. All I did was open an account (on Oct 4th), and deposit 50 BTC. Then boom, it's all gone. I wanted to buy some shares of ASICMINER, but did not get the chance to.

How is any of this "dirt"?

SlaveInDebt

hero member

Activity: 699

Merit: 500

Your Minion

Quote from: senor_coconut on October 06, 2012, 02:31:38 PM

Quote from: SlaveInDebt on October 06, 2012, 02:15:01 PM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on October 06, 2012, 07:39:27 AM

I don't know if Nefario really deserves a scammer tag. After seeing the talk it was crystal clear it wasn't an operation that knew what it was doing. That's perhaps the trouble of many of bitcoins enterprises, they are run by people who are more excited then they are knowledgable. Being Naieve isn't a scam, it's just kinda stupid (on the part of the scammie as well).

That said, Theymos makes a good point about having the feeling Nefario might be being squeezed by the government in some sort of plea deal in exchange for turning over records. Who knows how deep the Pirate nonsense has gotten.

I'd be more concerned for the people who have money in GLBSE, not about how much they might have lost, but rather what they might legally be on the hook for.

I agree.

If you pool in with some folks to have one run out to get a bag of coke and the running gets busted you should just be glad he doesn't give any names. Same thing here. You knowingly enter into an illegal exchange/securities with Nefario and he gets busted you best be glad he doesn't give names.

If Nefario is truly under government pressure it's not his will or doing what's occurring now it's Jonny law standing over his shoulder. Blame them not him. If you expect him to do anything outside what the law is telling him now you're in a fantasy land.

Quote from: BitcoinINV on October 06, 2012, 01:58:38 PM

The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

I don't know Goats whole situation but I remember him having a similar issue with Gox. Putting two together just makes Goat seem to smell. Maybe there is some law following Goat who knows the real reason for his second mistreatment, do you?

Also weren't you the one calling up FBI among others in the first place crying about Pirate, BFL and I think GLBSE a couple weeks ago?

It's a plausible thing that Nefario is being squeezed and a government body is behind this, whatever the root cause. However, save for a few big players like perhaps Theymos and other bigtime investors, I'd pretty much bet there is no risk of legal consequences, especially for the investors.
Is it logical to think "they" will be pursuing possibly hundreds of small investors (30, 50 BTC total) through borders, privacy hurdles, etc.?

You're exactly right only the big fish need worry. Hope he keeps to him self and they don't have record of them. All the small fish need not worry but don't expect Nefario to go out of his way to take care of you if it steps on any government toes right now he wont do it. For all one knows he bites the bullet gets the law off his back and does everyone right in time. Someone of that caliber is rare and should not be expected. You do dirt you get dirt sometimes. That's how the game works.

stochastic

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: senor_coconut on October 06, 2012, 02:31:38 PM

Quote from: SlaveInDebt on October 06, 2012, 02:15:01 PM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on October 06, 2012, 07:39:27 AM

I don't know if Nefario really deserves a scammer tag. After seeing the talk it was crystal clear it wasn't an operation that knew what it was doing. That's perhaps the trouble of many of bitcoins enterprises, they are run by people who are more excited then they are knowledgable. Being Naieve isn't a scam, it's just kinda stupid (on the part of the scammie as well).

That said, Theymos makes a good point about having the feeling Nefario might be being squeezed by the government in some sort of plea deal in exchange for turning over records. Who knows how deep the Pirate nonsense has gotten.

I'd be more concerned for the people who have money in GLBSE, not about how much they might have lost, but rather what they might legally be on the hook for.

I agree.

If you pool in with some folks to have one run out to get a bag of coke and the running gets busted you should just be glad he doesn't give any names. Same thing here. You knowingly enter into an illegal exchange/securities with Nefario and he gets busted you best be glad he doesn't give names.

If Nefario is truly under government pressure it's not his will or doing what's occurring now it's Jonny law standing over his shoulder. Blame them not him. If you expect him to do anything outside what the law is telling him now you're in a fantasy land.

Quote from: BitcoinINV on October 06, 2012, 01:58:38 PM

The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

I don't know Goats whole situation but I remember him having a similar issue with Gox. Putting two together just makes Goat seem to smell. Maybe there is some law following Goat who knows the real reason for his second mistreatment, do you?

Also weren't you the one calling up FBI among others in the first place crying about Pirate, BFL and I think GLBSE a couple weeks ago?

It's a plausible thing that Nefario is being squeezed and a government body is behind this, whatever the root cause. However, save for a few big players like perhaps Theymos and other bigtime investors, I'd pretty much bet there is no risk of legal consequences, especially for the investors.
Is it logical to think "they" will be pursuing possibly hundreds of small investors (30, 50 BTC total) through borders, privacy hurdles, etc.?

Seems more likely he does not want to work with some people anymore (asset issuers and shareholders) and make a clean scrub of his past responsibilities.

senor_coconut

member

Activity: 69

Merit: 10

a big question mark

Quote from: SlaveInDebt on October 06, 2012, 02:15:01 PM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on October 06, 2012, 07:39:27 AM

I don't know if Nefario really deserves a scammer tag. After seeing the talk it was crystal clear it wasn't an operation that knew what it was doing. That's perhaps the trouble of many of bitcoins enterprises, they are run by people who are more excited then they are knowledgable. Being Naieve isn't a scam, it's just kinda stupid (on the part of the scammie as well).

That said, Theymos makes a good point about having the feeling Nefario might be being squeezed by the government in some sort of plea deal in exchange for turning over records. Who knows how deep the Pirate nonsense has gotten.

I'd be more concerned for the people who have money in GLBSE, not about how much they might have lost, but rather what they might legally be on the hook for.

I agree.

If you pool in with some folks to have one run out to get a bag of coke and the running gets busted you should just be glad he doesn't give any names. Same thing here. You knowingly enter into an illegal exchange/securities with Nefario and he gets busted you best be glad he doesn't give names.

If Nefario is truly under government pressure it's not his will or doing what's occurring now it's Jonny law standing over his shoulder. Blame them not him. If you expect him to do anything outside what the law is telling him now you're in a fantasy land.

Quote from: BitcoinINV on October 06, 2012, 01:58:38 PM

The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

I don't know Goats whole situation but I remember him having a similar issue with Gox. Putting two together just makes Goat seem to smell. Maybe there is some law following Goat who knows the real reason for his second mistreatment, do you?

Also weren't you the one calling up FBI among others in the first place crying about Pirate, BFL and I think GLBSE a couple weeks ago?

It's a plausible thing that Nefario is being squeezed and a government body is behind this, whatever the root cause. However, save for a few big players like perhaps Theymos and other bigtime investors, I'd pretty much bet there is no risk of legal consequences, especially for the investors.
Is it logical to think "they" will be pursuing possibly hundreds of small investors (30, 50 BTC total) through borders, privacy hurdles, etc.?

SlaveInDebt

hero member

Activity: 699

Merit: 500

Your Minion

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on October 06, 2012, 07:39:27 AM

I don't know if Nefario really deserves a scammer tag. After seeing the talk it was crystal clear it wasn't an operation that knew what it was doing. That's perhaps the trouble of many of bitcoins enterprises, they are run by people who are more excited then they are knowledgable. Being Naieve isn't a scam, it's just kinda stupid (on the part of the scammie as well).

That said, Theymos makes a good point about having the feeling Nefario might be being squeezed by the government in some sort of plea deal in exchange for turning over records. Who knows how deep the Pirate nonsense has gotten.

I'd be more concerned for the people who have money in GLBSE, not about how much they might have lost, but rather what they might legally be on the hook for.

I agree.

If you pool in with some folks to have one run out to get a bag of coke and the running gets busted you should just be glad he doesn't give any names. Same thing here. You knowingly enter into an illegal exchange/securities with Nefario and he gets busted you best be glad he doesn't give names.

If Nefario is truly under government pressure it's not his will or doing what's occurring now it's Jonny law standing over his shoulder. Blame them not him. If you expect him to do anything outside what the law is telling him now you're in a fantasy land.

Quote from: BitcoinINV on October 06, 2012, 01:58:38 PM

The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

I don't know Goats whole situation but I remember him having a similar issue with Gox. Putting two together just makes Goat seem to smell. Maybe there is some law following Goat who knows the real reason for his second mistreatment, do you?

Also weren't you the one calling up FBI among others in the first place crying about Pirate, BFL and I think GLBSE a couple weeks ago?

stochastic

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Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: theymos on October 06, 2012, 10:06:12 AM

I tried to remove him as CEO, but there wasn't enough shareholder support. 5-6 people supported removing him against three (including Nefario) who didn't, but our side didn't have enough shares for a motion. Three large shareholders weren't at the meeting, so it was difficult to get the 51% required.

Later on in the meeting, Nefario somehow managed to convince 1-2 of the people who had supported removing Nefario, which is how he was able to pass a motion to order me to give him the treasury funds. So I doubt a motion to remove Nefario is possible now even if the absent shareholders voted.

It doesn't matter anyway, since Nefario said that he would ignore the shareholders and shut down GLBSE. And shutting down GLBSE is against the bylaws, so he needs a 66% vote. He didn't even pursue a 50% vote.

What would I do with the money if I kept it? I don't have the user database.

As Nefario is in contempt of the operating bylaws, I request that the shareholder minutes and records of shareholders be posted here.

wuala

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Luk, soy tu padreeee

Quote from: CJGoodings on October 05, 2012, 08:53:19 PM

He deserves the "King Of Scammers" tag since more or less made all the other ones possible.

O Rei do Scammers
Shit!!!!!
Angry

conspirosphere.tk

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Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: BitcoinINV on October 06, 2012, 01:58:38 PM

The shit is just piling up

BitcoinINV

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The shit is just piling up, here Nefario goes again. He wants everyone to play by his rules just like he made goat. The smoothest way for him to do this is to give the database files to someone and let them pay out. No need for him to pay out himself, he don't want nothing more to do with it then just walk away. This shit is just stupid.....

Garr255

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Activity: 938

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What's a GPU?

Quote from: Bogart on October 06, 2012, 01:44:24 PM

Please do not give our monies over to Nefario! Instead, demand a copy of the user database, and manage the dispersals yourself, as a proper Treasurer should.

Because you already know Nefario is misusing our funds, I second this.

Bogart

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Activity: 966

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Quote from: occulta on October 06, 2012, 12:36:46 PM

Did this just get added to GBLSE?

We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves. BitcoinGlobal (GLBSE's partent company) shareholders and board voted for them to be returned immediately, we are awaiting compliance with this order.

Im confused, didnt theymos say they want to agree to this too?

This was there when the statement was first posted.

Nef is using strong words to try and get Theymos to give him these monies, which are really our monies.

IMO, any monies he sends to Nef we can all kiss goodbye.

I want for Theymos to step up, and agree to manage the dispersal of customer funds. He has shown himself to be far more forthright than mr. Nef, and is treasurer after all. Giving over the treasury funds to Nef now after all that has happened is highly unlikely to result in a happy ending for us users IMO.

Theymos, I understand that your position sucks, and you just want out of it, like you did even before this whole situation exploded. Unfortunately, you're our only hope, and the funds that you hold are valuable leverage.

Please do not give our monies over to Nefario! Instead, demand a copy of the user database, and manage the dispersals yourself, as a proper Treasurer should.

gweedo

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Quote from: bigasic on October 06, 2012, 01:26:16 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 02:32:16 AM

Quote from: psilan on October 06, 2012, 02:25:48 AM

Quote from: repentance on October 06, 2012, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 01:26:44 AM

It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.

If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.

Rubbish. He can still be charged over the period he was operating the exchange illegally, although the penalties would most likely be administrative. Whether the FSA/SEC or whomever would actually pursue charges is a different issue but we're not talking about a restraining order/injunction here where the obligation to refrain from a behaviour doesn't start until a legal request to desist is issued and non-compliance with that request creates the illegality.

No bitcoin.me is correct.

I rob banks all the time and when they say stop I stop. Then they can't put me in jail.

lol.

Robbing banks is illegal in the first place. Bitcoin is unregulated and there are no laws in existence to deal with it and glbse never took in fiat. Its a massive grey area and you cant retroactively change laws and make them apply in the past. Its not clear the same laws apply to bitcoin at all.

I thought that GLBSE couldn't be regulated because of exactly that.. They deal with bitcoin and not any legal tender. While it may be a grey area, I dont think its black and white.. Could someone with more SEC knowledge explain to me why a GLBSE is illegal? I understand that its dealing with stocks, etc but legally, no money is exchanging hands..

S.E.C deals with securities in USD so this has nothing to do with the SEC. Since GLBSE is in UK and doesn't deal with fiat currency, but they decided they would pay taxes. So technically they made themselves illegal but doing that, plus nefario was talking about how he wants to go legit and that would require lawyers and stuff like that. They basically shot themselves in the foot.

senor_coconut

member

Activity: 69

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a big question mark

Hi,

I'm posting out of the sandbox for the first time but don't take straight for a pimple-ridden freakazoid wearing a "BTC" t-shirt.

I've been in contact with [email protected] before and they DID answer emails and solved user issues.

I've also already sent an email requesting my ~30 BTC back... hope is the last one to go! but, for what its worth, i got the autoreply so the email was "received" and also could check that the ticket desk is working (zendesk).

...well... waiting for the next relevant post, it's like a soap...

I had a good part of it in puremining, i'll try to have the issuer comment, maybe they know something more...

matthewh3

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Quote from: Shadow383 on October 06, 2012, 01:13:23 PM

Quote from: matthewh3 on October 06, 2012, 01:06:05 PM

I've just been on the phone with Nafario for a good half hour and even tho someone stated that Nafario had used users money to pay recent GLBSE legal fees is untrue. He hasn't even paid his solicitor a penny yet.

Any chance of a quick run-down of the chat? I think we're all curious to find out what's going on here...

Yeah he said ******* has been trying to take control of the GLBSE since before the shutdown (I forget how long for he said maybe a week or two before). He also said GLBSE will never be returning. He did say he's working on a way for assets to be able to issue dividends very soon but not for shares to be traded. He talked about a GLBSE alternative for companies that pay full taxes and follow all regulations. He also said he would help me move my asset RSM to Cryptostocks if I wanted. Also that he has a very generous offer of an interested party in buying the source-code. Plus I heard LTC-Global is selling there source-code. So lots of alternatives popping up soon.

Bitinvestor

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Quote from: bigasic on October 06, 2012, 01:26:16 PM

I thought that GLBSE couldn't be regulated because of exactly that.. They deal with bitcoin and not any legal tender. While it may be a grey area, I dont think its black and white.. Could someone with more SEC knowledge explain to me why a GLBSE is illegal? I understand that its dealing with stocks, etc but legally, no money is exchanging hands..

Please read this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/a-few-questions-about-glbse-46486

bigasic

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 02:32:16 AM

Quote from: psilan on October 06, 2012, 02:25:48 AM

Quote from: repentance on October 06, 2012, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 01:26:44 AM

It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.

If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.

Rubbish. He can still be charged over the period he was operating the exchange illegally, although the penalties would most likely be administrative. Whether the FSA/SEC or whomever would actually pursue charges is a different issue but we're not talking about a restraining order/injunction here where the obligation to refrain from a behaviour doesn't start until a legal request to desist is issued and non-compliance with that request creates the illegality.

No bitcoin.me is correct.

I rob banks all the time and when they say stop I stop. Then they can't put me in jail.

lol.

Robbing banks is illegal in the first place. Bitcoin is unregulated and there are no laws in existence to deal with it and glbse never took in fiat. Its a massive grey area and you cant retroactively change laws and make them apply in the past. Its not clear the same laws apply to bitcoin at all.

I thought that GLBSE couldn't be regulated because of exactly that.. They deal with bitcoin and not any legal tender. While it may be a grey area, I dont think its black and white.. Could someone with more SEC knowledge explain to me why a GLBSE is illegal? I understand that its dealing with stocks, etc but legally, no money is exchanging hands..

jasinlee

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

Quote from: matthewh3 on October 06, 2012, 01:12:40 PM

Quote from: jasinlee on October 06, 2012, 01:08:29 PM

Did you ask him if we can have the fees back we paid for an IPO he now will not provide since he has turned tail and run away?

If the IPO took place right before the shut-down I would imagine they would be paid back. You best contacting - [email protected]

Never even got that far, they never answered any emails.

Topic: Nefario - page 81. (Read 198716 times)