Nefario - page 86. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 03:14:23 AM

http://www.otcmarkets.com/otc-pink/home ooh look unregistered securities Roll Eyes

"OTC Markets Group is not a securities exchange or a broker-dealer. OTC Markets provides an electronic quotation and information service to registered broker-dealers to facilitate efficient transactions in OTC securities. Investors must contact an SEC registered broker-dealer that is a member of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) to invest in an OTC security"

It just means we need a broker to accept btc.

stochastic

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Quote from: Puppet on October 06, 2012, 03:20:50 AM

As for him stealing funds to pay for his lawyer; getting legal advice certainly sounds like a legitimate business expense to me, one you should have invested in a LONG time ago. Its completely reasonable Nefario would pay that with company funds rather than his own personal funds.

I thought he was using users funds to pay for the lawyer?

Puppet

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In Nefario's defense: you cant expect him to comply with bylaws if that means he has to violate the law. That would make the bylaws null and void.

As for him stealing funds to pay for his lawyer; getting legal advice certainly sounds like a legitimate business expense to me, one you should have invested in a LONG time ago. Its completely reasonable Nefario would pay that with company funds rather than his own personal funds.

As for returning bitcoins; I personally think its fucked up anonymous asset issuers will now be rewarded for their scams and asset holders will be completely screwed. Asset holders would have to reveal their identity and get nothing in return, since they wouldnt know who to file a claim against. The asset issuers can safely remain anonymous and get to keep the coins that really belong to the asset owners. Well played :S.

repentance

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Quote from: ?? on ??

This too shall pass.

Of course it will. It will dominate the forum for a week or two and then be replaced by another drama du jour.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

http://www.otcmarkets.com/otc-pink/home ooh look unregistered securities Roll Eyes

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: ?? on ??

I thought this might be useful for this thread: http://www.sec.gov/about/laws/sea34.pdf

If they push it we will just build securities into bitcoin and then point and laugh at their silly regulations.

Hunterbunter

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Quote from: bbit on October 05, 2012, 09:50:17 PM

I never thought I would say this but I'm starting to think Bitcoin is a scam Sad

Bitcoins are not a scam. They're a wide open stretch of ocean where people poke holes in their limbs and dangle them in the water.

Quote from: aura.flux on October 05, 2012, 10:23:51 PM

Does anything good ever happen to bitcoin?

The price sometimes goes up?

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Private investment pools may have some features of securities, but they may not be registered or regulated as such if they meet various restrictions.

stochastic

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Quote from: k3t3r on October 06, 2012, 02:54:23 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 02:35:17 AM

Quote from: repentance on October 06, 2012, 02:16:21 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 01:41:46 AM

Get one person to AML for lots of different accounts for a cut.

Because breaking even more laws in relation to an organisation which is already under scrutiny is a great idea.

Right now, everyone has to work on the assumption that everything sketchy to do with GBLSE is going to come out in the wash, including any illegal proposals put forward on this forum.

We havent broken ANY laws. Show me one fucking law that mentions bitcoin specifically.

"A security is "any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, bond, debenture, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement or in any oil, gas, or other mineral royalty or lease, any collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or in general, any instrument commonly known as a 'security'; or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing; but shall not include currency or any note, draft, bill of exchange, or bankers' acceptance which has a maturity at the time of issuance of not exceeding nine months, exclusive of days of grace, or any renewal thereof the maturity of which is likewise limited." - Section 3a item 10 of the 1934 Act."

this could include just about anything that is a reciept of value such eg amazon, iTunes gift cards.

does anybody know how the new legislation for crowd funding would apply in this situation ?

It does not apply yet as it does not go into effect until Jan 1, 2013.

Atlas

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Quote from: k3t3r on October 06, 2012, 02:54:23 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 02:35:17 AM

Quote from: repentance on October 06, 2012, 02:16:21 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 01:41:46 AM

Get one person to AML for lots of different accounts for a cut.

Because breaking even more laws in relation to an organisation which is already under scrutiny is a great idea.

Right now, everyone has to work on the assumption that everything sketchy to do with GBLSE is going to come out in the wash, including any illegal proposals put forward on this forum.

We havent broken ANY laws. Show me one fucking law that mentions bitcoin specifically.

"A security is "any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, bond, debenture, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement or in any oil, gas, or other mineral royalty or lease, any collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or in general, any instrument commonly known as a 'security'; or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing; but shall not include currency or any note, draft, bill of exchange, or bankers' acceptance which has a maturity at the time of issuance of not exceeding nine months, exclusive of days of grace, or any renewal thereof the maturity of which is likewise limited." - Section 3a item 10 of the 1934 Act."

this could include just about anything that is a reciept of value such eg amazon, iTunes gift cards.

...and that's the thing. Laws are applied when they are relevant to the powers that be. The key is to know the states intent in this regulation. Even then, they will use laws and spread their jurisdiction widely when convenient for their desires.

We usually have a Constitution to limit this type of thing.

The US founding father's would establish this type of financial activity as a first amendment, unbridgeable right.

k3t3r

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 02:35:17 AM

Quote from: repentance on October 06, 2012, 02:16:21 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 01:41:46 AM

Get one person to AML for lots of different accounts for a cut.

Because breaking even more laws in relation to an organisation which is already under scrutiny is a great idea.

Right now, everyone has to work on the assumption that everything sketchy to do with GBLSE is going to come out in the wash, including any illegal proposals put forward on this forum.

We havent broken ANY laws. Show me one fucking law that mentions bitcoin specifically.

"A security is "any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, bond, debenture, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement or in any oil, gas, or other mineral royalty or lease, any collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or in general, any instrument commonly known as a 'security'; or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing; but shall not include currency or any note, draft, bill of exchange, or bankers' acceptance which has a maturity at the time of issuance of not exceeding nine months, exclusive of days of grace, or any renewal thereof the maturity of which is likewise limited." - Section 3a item 10 of the 1934 Act."

this could include just about anything that is a reciept of value such eg amazon, iTunes gift cards.

does anybody know how the new legislation for crowd funding would apply in this situation ?

tucenaber

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I'm curious about the shareholders of GLBSE who are supporting Nefario in this. Who are they and shoildn't they be considered for scammer tags as well?

repentance

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Quote from: psilan on October 06, 2012, 02:38:31 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 02:35:17 AM

We havent broken ANY laws. Show me one fucking law that mentions bitcoin specifically.

Laws are open to interpretation. They don't have to specifically label bitcoin.

Not to mention that the issuers themselves were describing their products as securities - if they were representing as securities things which are not securities then they were obtaining a financial advantage by deception.

Given that this forum was the main place where products listed on GBLSE and GBLSE itself were promoted, anyone who doesn't think that what was written here - including any unsupported statements that GBLSE wasn't operating illegally - isn't potential evidence is hopelessly naive.

psilan

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Did he just get 3 black eyes?

Atlas

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 02:35:17 AM

Quote from: repentance on October 06, 2012, 02:16:21 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 01:41:46 AM

Get one person to AML for lots of different accounts for a cut.

Because breaking even more laws in relation to an organisation which is already under scrutiny is a great idea.

Right now, everyone has to work on the assumption that everything sketchy to do with GBLSE is going to come out in the wash, including any illegal proposals put forward on this forum.

We havent broken ANY laws. Show me one fucking law that mentions bitcoin specifically.

When the state executes its laws, it can interpret existing ones to cover new cases and situations. All it takes is a new court ruling to set precedent for a law to expand to new territory.

I don't agree with this but that's how our current powers work.

psilan

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 02:35:17 AM

We havent broken ANY laws. Show me one fucking law that mentions bitcoin specifically.

Laws are open to interpretation. They don't have to specifically label bitcoin.

Bitcoin Oz

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Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: repentance on October 06, 2012, 02:16:21 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 01:41:46 AM

Get one person to AML for lots of different accounts for a cut.

Because breaking even more laws in relation to an organisation which is already under scrutiny is a great idea.

Right now, everyone has to work on the assumption that everything sketchy to do with GBLSE is going to come out in the wash, including any illegal proposals put forward on this forum.

We havent broken ANY laws. Show me one fucking law that mentions bitcoin specifically.

stochastic

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Activity: 532

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Why doesn't nefario's account have a scammer tag on it? I want to see it before he or someone else deletes all his posts.

Atlas

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Quote from: psilan on October 06, 2012, 02:25:48 AM

Quote from: repentance on October 06, 2012, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 01:26:44 AM

It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.

If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.

Rubbish. He can still be charged over the period he was operating the exchange illegally, although the penalties would most likely be administrative. Whether the FSA/SEC or whomever would actually pursue charges is a different issue but we're not talking about a restraining order/injunction here where the obligation to refrain from a behaviour doesn't start until a legal request to desist is issued and non-compliance with that request creates the illegality.

No bitcoin.me is correct.

I rob banks all the time and when they say stop I stop. Then they can't put me in jail.

You need to be a prosecutor. lol

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: psilan on October 06, 2012, 02:25:48 AM

Quote from: repentance on October 06, 2012, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on October 06, 2012, 01:26:44 AM

It will only be illegal if its not shut down. It currently isnt illegal.

If nefario has been told to shut it down and complies there is no issue.

Rubbish. He can still be charged over the period he was operating the exchange illegally, although the penalties would most likely be administrative. Whether the FSA/SEC or whomever would actually pursue charges is a different issue but we're not talking about a restraining order/injunction here where the obligation to refrain from a behaviour doesn't start until a legal request to desist is issued and non-compliance with that request creates the illegality.

No bitcoin.me is correct.

I rob banks all the time and when they say stop I stop. Then they can't put me in jail.

lol.

Robbing banks is illegal in the first place. Bitcoin is unregulated and there are no laws in existence to deal with it and glbse never took in fiat. Its a massive grey area and you cant retroactively change laws and make them apply in the past. Its not clear the same laws apply to bitcoin at all.

Topic: Nefario - page 86. (Read 198716 times)