I would try to calculate some numbers here. You could help with information to make it more precise. This is just a roughly estimations and I'm not sure about the numbers listed.
Shares sold:
2338855 (lmb public ledger) + 2647870 (havelock) = 4986725 shares sold
of those 4986725:
400000 * 0.001 = 400BTC - Maybe all spent on the prospectus and initial expenses?
1000000? * 0.0025 = 2500BTC
3586725? * 0.003 = 10760BTC
Total (initial 400 excluded): 13260BTC collected from the IPVO
Expenses (min - max):
office: 1000000$-2000000$
advertisement: 500000$ - 1000000$
travel: 20000$ -50000$
payroll: 30000$ - 120000$
seminars: 3000$ - 12000$
total $ spent: 1553000$ - 3182000$
Most of the expenses should be made in January i believe with average BTC Price around 820, but I'll make calculation with 750 also:
min expences made in btc: 2071 - 1894 BTC
max expences made in btc: 4243 - 3880 BTC
BTC currently available: 9018 - 11366
+Office +1420BTC owed by Ukyo + huge international interest + a great team in Cyprus + everyone in Cyprus knows about bitcoin now.
According to Danny's last post less then 1420BTC "would have been deep enough to cover all creditors and OPEX for the foreseeable future allowing the company to achieve a positive cash flow during that period"
Based on those calculations my guess is that the company is still in a great position.
Topic: Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread) - page 55. (Read 262056 times)
A couple of days before trading stopped I requested to move my shares from Havelock to LMB Holdings
I didn't get an answer, does anyone know if I can still do this
I didn't get an answer, does anyone know if I can still do this
i would like to transfer my pirate pass through from glbse
A couple of days before trading stopped I requested to move my shares from Havelock to LMB Holdings
I didn't get an answer, does anyone know if I can still do this
I didn't get an answer, does anyone know if I can still do this
Anyone have any ideas what the residual value of the business is? Storefronts likely have a value of zero, and things like computers sell for pennies on the dollar. There's some value, maybe, in the form of goodwill. The business is only really worth anything if Danny finds a buyer who is willing to inject capital.
If there is value, it should be in design, public perception and regulatory relations they had until now. This will all completely disappear within weeks, if not days, but I think there is still a lot of potential for this business if the right person steps in. It's a very low probability though. I think capital is the least of Neo&Bee's problems.
This is, of course, assuming what we know is the whole picture, which probably isn't nearly the case.
...
Anyone have any ideas what the residual value of the business is? Storefronts likely have a value of zero...
Anyone have any ideas what the residual value of the business is? Storefronts likely have a value of zero...
I was thinking a nice cellphone store? The tables and chairs could be auctioned off.
...
Also, the shares we own are profit-shares, rather than percentage ownership, right? In a bankruptcy situation we'd be absolutely last in line to receive anything.
Also, the shares we own are profit-shares, rather than percentage ownership, right? In a bankruptcy situation we'd be absolutely last in line to receive anything.
Right.
I have a small number of Neobee shares, so only out the cost of a nice dinner. I completely accept the risk involved in trading shares of tiny startup companies on a BTC exchange. The failure rate is comparable to pink slip companies or kickstarter-based ones. I've had a couple of other investments on Havelock go under, and overall I've still made money.
Also, the shares we own are profit-shares, rather than percentage ownership, right? In a bankruptcy situation we'd be absolutely last in line to receive anything.
Anyway, what's more interesting is, why come out with lack of liquidity this late in the game? I can come up with a lot of different scenarios where this could have been resolved if he had been transparent all the way through.
I've been the CEO of a company that went under, and I can tell you how easy it is to get caught up in fire-fighting to the point where one takes one's eyes completely off the ball. Plus the emotional toll is huge. I wound up physically ill as a result. Still, you're not wrong.I don't think this is irrecoverable though. The business is worth something (actually, I think a lot) and letting it rot doesn't make much sense, so I'm hopeful that someone will step up for the position.
Anyone have any ideas what the residual value of the business is? Storefronts likely have a value of zero, and things like computers sell for pennies on the dollar. There's some value, maybe, in the form of goodwill. The business is only really worth anything if Danny finds a buyer who is willing to inject capital.Also, the shares we own are profit-shares, rather than percentage ownership, right? In a bankruptcy situation we'd be absolutely last in line to receive anything.
you can only speculate... considering that already some companies were interested in buying the franchise rights to take it to an international level, and the level of interest generated during it's opening, I think there will be some takers. [ ... ] He will take any offer at this time so it is bound to sell to at least SOMEONE. What they will do with it thought is another matter.
Sigh, we have been through this already with MtGOX.Anyone who buys them will have to assume their debts. If they are insolvent -- owing more than they can expect to earn in some reasonable term -- their net value is negative. No sane person would want to buy something that is expected to give a net loss. Any software they may have is more easily redone than reused.
They seemed to be quite naive about banking and their prospective marketplace. With the price swings of the last four months, a bitcoin-based bank currently sounds as sensible as liver-flavored ice-cream.
What I saw of their early marketing must have been incomprehensible to the average Cypriot; it sounded as if its primary goal was to attract investors among bitcoin believers in the English-speaking world (including using the bitcoiner slang "fiat" for "ordinary money", without explanation)
Ditto for their recent reply to the Cyprus Central Bank warnings (which were just the standard factual and sensible warnings that all central banks have been issuing about cryptocoin investment). It insinuated that bankers were the biggest criminals in the world -- hardly the best way to convince the Central Bank to let their bank to operate...
By the way, can anyone speculate on why Danny would have been threatened?
You can take a look at the locked thread, some hints are still there, posted addresses and names.Follow the FUD and you'll see the threats. Obviously some felt strong enough to go further over the phone.
I sure hope they move against them, cyprus has quite good technical abilities on these matters.
bye bye.
...All of this looks like steps taken carefully to create the most spectacular failure...
Who woulda thunked.
It's still rather peculiar.
I can understand why he didn't collect funds directly; there was too much noise about centralized exchanges being "as safe" and all that nonsense. I wonder who advised Danny to go down that road. However, if he had been transparent about the accounts and the effect of loss of funds to the BitFunder platform, those who waited for a safer way to invest wouldn't get burned. In the end, nobody won; typical outcome when you try to outsmart honesty.
Anyway, what's more interesting is, why come out with lack of liquidity this late in the game? I can come up with a lot of different scenarios where this could have been resolved if he had been transparent all the way through. What kept him back? All of this looks like steps taken carefully to create the most spectacular failure.
I don't think this is irrecoverable though. The business is worth something (actually, I think a lot) and letting it rot doesn't make much sense, so I'm hopeful that someone will step up for the position.
The business model can be changed slightly to move away from pegged accounts as much as possible, which seems to be the only problem with the enterprise.
By the way, can anyone speculate on why Danny would have been threatened?
I can understand why he didn't collect funds directly; there was too much noise about centralized exchanges being "as safe" and all that nonsense. I wonder who advised Danny to go down that road. However, if he had been transparent about the accounts and the effect of loss of funds to the BitFunder platform, those who waited for a safer way to invest wouldn't get burned. In the end, nobody won; typical outcome when you try to outsmart honesty.
Anyway, what's more interesting is, why come out with lack of liquidity this late in the game? I can come up with a lot of different scenarios where this could have been resolved if he had been transparent all the way through. What kept him back? All of this looks like steps taken carefully to create the most spectacular failure.
I don't think this is irrecoverable though. The business is worth something (actually, I think a lot) and letting it rot doesn't make much sense, so I'm hopeful that someone will step up for the position.
The business model can be changed slightly to move away from pegged accounts as much as possible, which seems to be the only problem with the enterprise.
By the way, can anyone speculate on why Danny would have been threatened?
This is why we can't have nice things.
Thanks.
Thanks.
So... Is it all over? I guess the damage is irrecoverable?
you can only speculate... considering that already some companies were interested in buying the franchise rights to take it to an international level, and the level of interest generated during it's opening, I think there will be some takers. The question is whether or not a transition is actually logistically possible considering Danny has spearheaded this thing from the very beginning... But you have to think about this from Danny's perspective. He will take any offer at this time so it is bound to sell to at least SOMEONE. What they will do with it thought is another matter.
I've been speculating for some time, but didn't want to spread FUD for no reason, whether or not Russian organised crime had anything to do with this... especially considering their known link with Cyprus banks. Now that we know a major factor is a threat towards his daughter, it becomes more likely. That said, it could just be another one of those angry, greedy, keyboard bashing sociopaths who just got scared of losing their bitcoins and decided to "reach out".
I'm curoius what image will the university and the other merchants that accepted to work with them get out from this.
Isn't he saying he is in the process of finding a buyer? What if he can't find any takers?
A more sensible question...who knows.
I imagine the securities on HAvelock are going to be frozen until there is an outcome.
Who knows.
I posted a link to this on the 'wall observer' thread...the level of ignorance on there about whats happening in the BTC-space is just incredible.
Isn't he saying he is in the process of finding a buyer? What if he can't find any takers?
I seriously worry if anyone here can actually read.
LMB and its subsidiaries (NeoBee) are being sold and a new CEO appointed (I imagine Danny has had enough of this bullshit).
LMB and its subsidiaries (NeoBee) are being sold and a new CEO appointed (I imagine Danny has had enough of this bullshit).
So... Is it all over? I guess the damage is irrecoverable?
Just read that.
Firstly, respect to Danny for posting an update and I agree that it is utterly wrong and inappropriate that his family has been dragged into this.
However, it now seems I and some others have been right all along. The money has been spent and lost and there is nothing left.
Sadly all the money has been spent on nothing more than raising the awareness of Neo/Bitcoin in Cyprus, which will now be more than offset by the bad publicity for both that the insolvency of Neo will bring. I highly doubt that anyone would wish to buy or launch a Bitcoin bank again in Cyprus, now that the only well-known one has proven all the risks and gone bust.
What a mess. I'm genuinely sorry and sad for all those involved, staff and investors and for the futher negativity it will bring to the world of Bitcoin.
Firstly, respect to Danny for posting an update and I agree that it is utterly wrong and inappropriate that his family has been dragged into this.
However, it now seems I and some others have been right all along. The money has been spent and lost and there is nothing left.
Sadly all the money has been spent on nothing more than raising the awareness of Neo/Bitcoin in Cyprus, which will now be more than offset by the bad publicity for both that the insolvency of Neo will bring. I highly doubt that anyone would wish to buy or launch a Bitcoin bank again in Cyprus, now that the only well-known one has proven all the risks and gone bust.
What a mess. I'm genuinely sorry and sad for all those involved, staff and investors and for the futher negativity it will bring to the world of Bitcoin.
Jump to: