Topic: NEW info. Everyone is lying about ther ASIC project - page 15. (Read 26577 times)
I have a strong feeling they will deliver, but not on time. I've never ordered from BFL before except to pre-order my jalapeno but by reading these forums I'm nearly sure the ETA for delivery will be pushed back quite a bit.
What bugs me is the Hash power that they are introducing. 3 gh/s & 40 GH/s (no problem) but why is the next step a 1TH/s. Shouldn't or wouldn't make sense to come out with like an upgradable 250GH/s unit?
You would think they would start a little smaller (250GH/s upgradeable) and sell a bunch of those then move up in size a little bit (Just like with the rest of the computer industry)Then maybe two-three years down the road move up to the 1TH/s. There's no acceleration here, it's either stopped or WFO.
Seems like to me introducing this much speed will pretty much eliminate ALL the small guy's. By small I mean anything under 100Gh/s. I would think this will basically shoot them in the foot and they will realize what i'm talking about once everything is on the market and people are plugged in. Start small and work your way there. Don't go from ground floor to the 13th floor all at once. That's my 2 bits thanks for letting me vent.
If they offered a 250GH/s unit for $7,500 instead of a 1TH/s unit for $30,000, why couldn't those who ordered a single mini-rig instead just order four 250GH/s units?You would think they would start a little smaller (250GH/s upgradeable) and sell a bunch of those then move up in size a little bit (Just like with the rest of the computer industry)Then maybe two-three years down the road move up to the 1TH/s. There's no acceleration here, it's either stopped or WFO.
Seems like to me introducing this much speed will pretty much eliminate ALL the small guy's. By small I mean anything under 100Gh/s. I would think this will basically shoot them in the foot and they will realize what i'm talking about once everything is on the market and people are plugged in. Start small and work your way there. Don't go from ground floor to the 13th floor all at once. That's my 2 bits thanks for letting me vent.
In other words, it would make very little difference in overall network hashrate if they had chosen 250GH/s as their largest hasher instead of 1TH/s.
I was just thinking more from a business stand point seems like it would make more sense to slowly increase the power. Hell they probably could have gotten $5K for a 40GH/s and $25K for a 250GH/s. I'm quite sure people would gobble them up even at $5k and $25K Then later on offer upgrades or whatever. That's basically all i meant. Just a thought.
They did buy up ALL the ad space on this site.... I think something is up and they will be very far behind schedule... I think maybe 1 of each units will be shipped out per week for the next 15 years 
What bugs me is the Hash power that they are introducing. 3 gh/s & 40 GH/s (no problem) but why is the next step a 1TH/s. Shouldn't or wouldn't make sense to come out with like an upgradable 250GH/s unit?
You would think they would start a little smaller (250GH/s upgradeable) and sell a bunch of those then move up in size a little bit (Just like with the rest of the computer industry)Then maybe two-three years down the road move up to the 1TH/s. There's no acceleration here, it's either stopped or WFO.
Seems like to me introducing this much speed will pretty much eliminate ALL the small guy's. By small I mean anything under 100Gh/s. I would think this will basically shoot them in the foot and they will realize what i'm talking about once everything is on the market and people are plugged in. Start small and work your way there. Don't go from ground floor to the 13th floor all at once. That's my 2 bits thanks for letting me vent.
If they offered a 250GH/s unit for $7,500 instead of a 1TH/s unit for $30,000, why couldn't those who ordered a single mini-rig instead just order four 250GH/s units?You would think they would start a little smaller (250GH/s upgradeable) and sell a bunch of those then move up in size a little bit (Just like with the rest of the computer industry)Then maybe two-three years down the road move up to the 1TH/s. There's no acceleration here, it's either stopped or WFO.
Seems like to me introducing this much speed will pretty much eliminate ALL the small guy's. By small I mean anything under 100Gh/s. I would think this will basically shoot them in the foot and they will realize what i'm talking about once everything is on the market and people are plugged in. Start small and work your way there. Don't go from ground floor to the 13th floor all at once. That's my 2 bits thanks for letting me vent.
In other words, it would make very little difference in overall network hashrate if they had chosen 250GH/s as their largest hasher instead of 1TH/s.
Indeed, the bottom line is we are working to improve customer service and our shipping times. We just shipped orders from the first of August, so we are getting caught up there. I have been working hard on the customer service issue as well as the shipping issues. We are also working very hard on getting the ASICs out the door on time. We are really beefing up our production capacity and moving everything we can in house. We've purchased a pick and place machine, an oven, stenciler and other equipment to manufacture all the boards in house. This means we can produce as many boards as we need without being at the mercy of board manufacturers and their timing/runs.
Our ASIC chip is 100% original IP and we will have as many chips as we need, when we need them. We are standardizing a lot of our equipment, so we can keep massive quantities of inventory on hand (at least 6 months of production work is the goal), allowing us to crank out units - literally - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week if need be. We've hired more personnel and will be hiring yet more people as we gear up.
The ASIC generation is going to be much less complex, as well, so there will be less steps to creating a fully functional end unit, and we will also be able to assemble/produce the much faster. Everything you know about BFL is changing now and will continue to change. The only thing I can do is assure you we understand the concerns and we are doing everything we can to address the past mistakes.
Our ASIC chip is 100% original IP and we will have as many chips as we need, when we need them. We are standardizing a lot of our equipment, so we can keep massive quantities of inventory on hand (at least 6 months of production work is the goal), allowing us to crank out units - literally - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week if need be. We've hired more personnel and will be hiring yet more people as we gear up.
The ASIC generation is going to be much less complex, as well, so there will be less steps to creating a fully functional end unit, and we will also be able to assemble/produce the much faster. Everything you know about BFL is changing now and will continue to change. The only thing I can do is assure you we understand the concerns and we are doing everything we can to address the past mistakes.
As a note (from a customer with undelivered singles on order, and asic upgrade on pre-order) This is exactly the sort of communication that your customers love to see. Maybe something as simple as mailing out a newsletter at regular intervals. It would only need 3 sections, since last time - currently - looking forward. That in and of itself would go a long way on the customer service side of things.
What bugs me is the Hash power that they are introducing. 3 gh/s & 40 GH/s (no problem) but why is the next step a 1TH/s. Shouldn't or wouldn't make sense to come out with like an upgradable 250GH/s unit?
You would think they would start a little smaller (250GH/s upgradeable) and sell a bunch of those then move up in size a little bit (Just like with the rest of the computer industry)Then maybe two-three years down the road move up to the 1TH/s. There's no acceleration here, it's either stopped or WFO.
Seems like to me introducing this much speed will pretty much eliminate ALL the small guy's. By small I mean anything under 100Gh/s. I would think this will basically shoot them in the foot and they will realize what i'm talking about once everything is on the market and people are plugged in. Start small and work your way there. Don't go from ground floor to the 13th floor all at once. That's my 2 bits thanks for letting me vent.
You would think they would start a little smaller (250GH/s upgradeable) and sell a bunch of those then move up in size a little bit (Just like with the rest of the computer industry)Then maybe two-three years down the road move up to the 1TH/s. There's no acceleration here, it's either stopped or WFO.
Seems like to me introducing this much speed will pretty much eliminate ALL the small guy's. By small I mean anything under 100Gh/s. I would think this will basically shoot them in the foot and they will realize what i'm talking about once everything is on the market and people are plugged in. Start small and work your way there. Don't go from ground floor to the 13th floor all at once. That's my 2 bits thanks for letting me vent.
There has been 0 proof from any of these so called ASIC developers. Each time the community shouts at one to show their hand, they bitch on how the other groups havent shown theirs. So we end up starting back at square one, with these groups charging an arm and leg for their units which don't technically exists yet except in concept.
And yet, people all over these forums are throwing tens of thousands of their hard earned dollars into a product nobody is willing to demonstrate.
Why do you even care what people choose to throw their hard earned dollars at? And yet, people all over these forums are throwing tens of thousands of their hard earned dollars into a product nobody is willing to demonstrate.
You are also ignoring the price of BTC. The increasing difficulty and halving of the reward may make the value increase. Alternatively it could make no difference at all! At this stage it is pure speculation. You pays your money and you takes your chance!
There has been 0 proof from any of these so called ASIC developers. Each time the community shouts at one to show their hand, they bitch on how the other groups havent shown theirs. So we end up starting back at square one, with these groups charging an arm and leg for their units which don't technically exists yet except in concept.
And yet, people all over these forums are throwing tens of thousands of their hard earned dollars into a product nobody is willing to demonstrate.
And yet, people all over these forums are throwing tens of thousands of their hard earned dollars into a product nobody is willing to demonstrate.
Well, I've placed about 5k worth of my BTC in their miners so I hope that they deliver!
btw, jalapeno
Hardware break even: 11 days
Net profit first time frame: 287.44 USD
i will have a lot of fun watching this thing!
Ya.. I wish. LOL. Just remember the difficulty is GOING TO SKYROCKET. THat means if it's up by 10x then our little doodads (I ordered a Jalepeno for poo and giggles) will only make 28.74 USD in that timeframe for the same amount of hashing work done.
Let's take a look at the numbers
we have a speed of 21293.57 Gigahashes/s which produces 7950 btc a day
7950/(21293.57) = 0.3733521433935221
each Gigahash produces more than 0.37 btc a day
if we add the 300 mining SC from butterflylabs with 40 GHashes/s (somewhere I read that they had 300 in the first batch)
7950/(21293.57 + 40*300) = 0.23878484644332224
each GHash now produces less than 0.23 btc a day
which is a drop of 37% in revenue for classic miners when the first batch of 300 SCs are deployed.
btw, jalapeno
Hardware break even: 11 days
Net profit first time frame: 287.44 USD
i will have a lot of fun watching this thing!
Ya.. I wish. LOL. Just remember the difficulty is GOING TO SKYROCKET. THat means if it's up by 10x then our little doodads (I ordered a Jalepeno for poo and giggles) will only make 28.74 USD in that timeframe for the same amount of hashing work done.
Indeed, the bottom line is we are working to improve customer service and our shipping times.
I was very happy with the fast response I got from BFL customer support about my SC pre-order. BFL gets my vote, for what it's worth
If they release an ASIC product first, it doesn't matter what that product is - if network hash rates increase by 5 or 10 times (potentially 40 times) then GPU mining becomes pointless. And you'll then be stuck with no way to earn. My advise is this, if you haven't jumped on the BFL bandwagon yet - do it now, order an fpga single and pre-order the upgrade for it. If another company produces an ASIC product, you should buy from them as well. The more developers making this hardware would be the best thing for growth of bitcoin longterm.
Just to check, if we had to speculate, that there's a possibility that network hash rate could go from 20TH/s right now to 40x = 800TH/s? When do you believe this would be hit?
They have deplorable customer service. It's the main reason why I may go with a totally different ASIC provider.
Yeah, good luck with that.
Let us know how that worked out come January.
They have deplorable customer service. It's the main reason why I may go with a totally different ASIC provider.
It does look at a little concerning. lack of pics, detailed specs etc when the release date is so fast approaching. On the other side though is the fact that BFL is already established. 170$ risk isn't a big risk for a lot of miners though. Just a newb interpretation.
judas, it's not wrong to be paranoid. Certainly, those of us who are trusting a company with our money months before we'll actually see the units we are buying are taking a greater risk than those who wait to order until BFL has a proven track record of selling ASIC's. But the reward is also much greater. Break even time will quickly rise to 6-8 months, and only the initial purchasers will see that large initial return on investment.
That said, I'll give you two explanations to your two issues...
1) They offer the buy-back to help build trust, and they are still making money when people trade in. It is speculated that the ASIC chips will only cost around $10 or so each. If someone trades their $600 unit in for a $1300 unit (and you can't trade in more units than you buy), then they're still paying $700. Assuming the variable cost of production is $100 or so for the other components and assembly, BFL is still making $590 on a traded-in machine (which they also stated would be resold for other purposes in the future). If they DIDN'T offer the trade in, those who already have BFL products would likely feel jaded from their recent purchases becoming obsolete so quickly, and would turn to a different company to order from in the future. So, BFL is doing the trade in both to make money (to help recover the cost of their capital investment in ASIC technology), and to maintain a good relationship with their previous customers.
2) It's an increase in performance of 4002%, so it must be a ponzi scheme! Erm, no, not so much. There is no "interest rate" here, it's a performance increase. Technological breakthroughs sometimes allow increases in performance of 4002%, and that's the case here. An FPGA is a device that can do many things, but inefficient at doing any single thing. An ASIC is purpose-built for a single task, and thus can have much higher performance and efficiency than a programmable array.
That said, I'll give you two explanations to your two issues...
1) They offer the buy-back to help build trust, and they are still making money when people trade in. It is speculated that the ASIC chips will only cost around $10 or so each. If someone trades their $600 unit in for a $1300 unit (and you can't trade in more units than you buy), then they're still paying $700. Assuming the variable cost of production is $100 or so for the other components and assembly, BFL is still making $590 on a traded-in machine (which they also stated would be resold for other purposes in the future). If they DIDN'T offer the trade in, those who already have BFL products would likely feel jaded from their recent purchases becoming obsolete so quickly, and would turn to a different company to order from in the future. So, BFL is doing the trade in both to make money (to help recover the cost of their capital investment in ASIC technology), and to maintain a good relationship with their previous customers.
2) It's an increase in performance of 4002%, so it must be a ponzi scheme! Erm, no, not so much. There is no "interest rate" here, it's a performance increase. Technological breakthroughs sometimes allow increases in performance of 4002%, and that's the case here. An FPGA is a device that can do many things, but inefficient at doing any single thing. An ASIC is purpose-built for a single task, and thus can have much higher performance and efficiency than a programmable array.
(other form the Lack of Pictures of Stuff like packaging, cases, assembly lines or anything that is involved in the process of making this thing ... oh wait there is picture of a wafer that is shown on at least 6 other websites
https://www.google.com/search?q=semiconductor+wafer&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSYxphCxCo1NgEGgAMCxCwjKcIGjwKOggBEhTMBskG9gXeA_1QF8gXrA6EDlwPHAxogmY5_1V4e1Z TfidXWnqqj2p5uXwVkKOJhV2FiKyK-VR9cMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgQvH-IjDA&ei=--xRUJBNid_hBKedgcgO&ved=0CCgQwg4&biw=1440&bih=657
What bugs me the most is the "buy-back" thing.
It just does not make sense and there is no explanation to why. How can a company afford that? When you sell something for 599$ and then later buy back the same thing for the same price which nobody wants to buy any more because there is also the other thing (jalapeno) that's way faster and way cheaper than the original ... you are not going to sell it again.
It sounds a lot like the "establishing trust" in a Ponzi scheme. let's take the numbers to see which magnitude we have here
with the old system (599$/832MHashes) i would get less than 1.4 MHashes per Dollar
with the new system (1299$/40GHashes) i would get more than 20.7 MHashes per Dollar
that's an increase of 1478%
with the upgrade (699$/39168MHases) i'd even get 56 MHashes per Dollar
that's an increase of 4002%
man, even the newest ponzi scheme https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108832.40 has only a 100% interest
oh wait, let's see what a mining calculator says to this
http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php
Hardware break even: 8 days
Net profit first time frame: 3687.60 USD
the upgrade will generate 165$ a day extra
btw, jalapeno
Hardware break even: 11 days
Net profit first time frame: 287.44 USD
i will have a lot of fun watching this thing!
https://www.google.com/search?q=semiconductor+wafer&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSYxphCxCo1NgEGgAMCxCwjKcIGjwKOggBEhTMBskG9gXeA_1QF8gXrA6EDlwPHAxogmY5_1V4e1Z TfidXWnqqj2p5uXwVkKOJhV2FiKyK-VR9cMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgQvH-IjDA&ei=--xRUJBNid_hBKedgcgO&ved=0CCgQwg4&biw=1440&bih=657
What bugs me the most is the "buy-back" thing.
It just does not make sense and there is no explanation to why. How can a company afford that? When you sell something for 599$ and then later buy back the same thing for the same price which nobody wants to buy any more because there is also the other thing (jalapeno) that's way faster and way cheaper than the original ... you are not going to sell it again.
It sounds a lot like the "establishing trust" in a Ponzi scheme. let's take the numbers to see which magnitude we have here
with the old system (599$/832MHashes) i would get less than 1.4 MHashes per Dollar
with the new system (1299$/40GHashes) i would get more than 20.7 MHashes per Dollar
that's an increase of 1478%
with the upgrade (699$/39168MHases) i'd even get 56 MHashes per Dollar
that's an increase of 4002%
man, even the newest ponzi scheme https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108832.40 has only a 100% interest
oh wait, let's see what a mining calculator says to this
http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php
Hardware break even: 8 days
Net profit first time frame: 3687.60 USD
the upgrade will generate 165$ a day extra
btw, jalapeno
Hardware break even: 11 days
Net profit first time frame: 287.44 USD
i will have a lot of fun watching this thing!
This is a picture of one of the helper monkeys that work behind the scenes at EMC to send all those text and email messages. People always wonder what they look like.
That would be my face if I see a BFL Asic before Christmas
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