[NEWS] Bit4x.com - First FOREX accepts bitcoin! - 1:1000 Leverage!!! - page 7.

kakobrekla

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Psi laju, karavani prolaze.

Quote from: sippsnapp on October 03, 2012, 12:36:33 AM

What i wonder is, bitcoin by law is not threated as currency as a lawyer told me.
How does this complains with the regulation?.

VenetFX lawyers have been working on this and have set up a system for it.

Quote from: sippsnapp on October 03, 2012, 12:36:33 AM

On your website http://bit4x.com/ is no statement of regulation.
From the http://venetfx.com/regulations/

Quote

This disclosure is made in respect of Worth. IT Financial Services Ltd, or short ‘Worth Ltd’, which is au-thorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (‘FSA’) to provide FX margin trading services. This disclosure does not include any statements for any other member or affiliate of the ‘Worth Ltd’.

Bit4X is a VenetFX service. http://venetfx.com/bitcoin/
I have a contract signed for exclusive IB for Bitcoin.
Working with me is like working insurance agent who works for insurance company. I bridge end clients with VenetFX.
Because of my technical background and OTC history I also take care of all Bitcoin related technical stuff and hold all clients deposits.
A seperate page was made for a better presentation of Bitcoin support. (Trading rules are also different with BTC.)

Quote from: sippsnapp on October 03, 2012, 12:36:33 AM

On the http://venetfx.com/ is nothing mentioned about MFID standard.

The FSA is responsible for the regulation of the securities industry in the UK. It has incorporated MiFID into its Handbook of rules and guidance.

Quote from: sippsnapp on October 03, 2012, 12:36:33 AM

I also miss a privacy statement.

I will be adding a FAQ soon and it will be added there.

Quote from: sippsnapp on October 03, 2012, 12:36:33 AM

Now the question for me would be, how are you compensated for the introduccing service? IS there any spread/commission markup?

Commissions are built in the spread. Spread is the same as with all VenetFX accounts.

sippsnapp

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 250

What i wonder is, bitcoin by law is not threated as currency as a lawyer told me.
How does this complains with the regulation?.

On your website http://bit4x.com/ is no statement of regulation.
From the http://venetfx.com/regulations/

Quote

This disclosure is made in respect of Worth. IT Financial Services Ltd, or short ‘Worth Ltd’, which is au-thorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (‘FSA’) to provide FX margin trading services. This disclosure does not include any statements for any other member or affiliate of the ‘Worth Ltd’.

On the http://venetfx.com/ is nothing mentioned about MFID standard.

I also miss a privacy statement.

As http://venetfx.com/ also states that they accept bitcoin for deposit, i conclude that http://bit4x.com/ is just a normal white label introducing broker (affiliate). Now the question for me would be, how are you compensated for the introduccing service? IS there any spread/commission markup?

byronbb

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

HODL OR DIE

Quote from: FreeMoney on October 01, 2012, 09:36:56 PM

My scam-sense is tingling.

kakobrekla

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Psi laju, karavani prolaze.

Quote from: evolve on October 02, 2012, 05:28:16 PM

I see.

I would recommend linking your liscensing info on the bit4x page as well. There are a ton of forex scams out there, and it looks suspicious when you don't have it conspicuously displayed.

Added in the text. Hope that is sufficient.

evolve

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

daytrader/superhero

I see.

I would recommend linking your liscensing info on the bit4x page as well. There are a ton of forex scams out there, and it looks suspicious when you don't have it conspicuously displayed.

kakobrekla

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Psi laju, karavani prolaze.

Quote from: evolve on October 02, 2012, 05:19:43 PM

Edit:
I see venetfx liscense info on their site, but nothing yours. I assume this means you aren't a liscensed brokerage?

http://venetfx.com/bitcoin/

Along with taking care of technical side of Bitcoin, holding deposits and so on, I am exclusive introducing broker for Bitcoin for VenetFX.

evolve

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

daytrader/superhero

So you are regulated by FSA. Can you link me to your liscense registry? No one in their right mind is going to open an account (much less give you money) if you aren't liscensed.

Edit:
I see venetfx liscense info on their site, but nothing on yours.

kakobrekla

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Psi laju, karavani prolaze.

Quote from: evolve on October 02, 2012, 05:01:43 PM

For your clients to comply, they need to know what country you operate from.

So you are a member of nfa and liscensed? If not you cannot do business in the USA (or with clients based in the USA). If not, are you liscensed by your countries regulatory body, and can you provide a link to your license registry?

VenetFX head office is in UK. All Bitcoin denominated accounts/clients are treated as 'domestic' or 'local'.
See http://bit4x.com for the required info to open a Live account.

evolve

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

daytrader/superhero

Quote from: kakobrekla on October 02, 2012, 04:06:00 PM

- We comply to all local regulations. Clients should be compliant with their local regulations.

- As for bucket shop, VenetFX connection to Currenex is provided by http://www.admd.com.

For your clients to comply, they need to know what country you operate from.

So you are a member of nfa and liscensed? If not you cannot do business in the USA (or with clients based in the USA). If not, are you liscensed by your countries regulatory body, and can you provide a link to your license registry?

The fact that you haven't listed these things on your site makes it look very suspicious.

ElectricMucus

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1057

Marketing manager - GO MP

Quote from: evolve on October 02, 2012, 03:02:39 PM

That's IF they don't just run off with your money.

Be careful people.

FTFY

kakobrekla

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Psi laju, karavani prolaze.

- We comply to all local regulations. Clients should be compliant with their local regulations.

- As for bucket shop, VenetFX connection to Currenex is provided by http://www.admd.com.

sippsnapp

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 250

Most dont know that i guess but you can run a bucket white label brokerage with a simple financial srevice proider licence which can be optained between 2.5 and 30k USD depending on the jurisdication. Thats how unregulated brokers get founded, next step would be to get a regulation but i really dont now how hard its to get a regulation documents. There are indeed a lot of black sheeps out there but some are as stupid as black, 2 years ago i got fridays quotes on a sunday opening in forex, could have made a killing if i wasnt sucha noob back then xD.

evolve

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

daytrader/superhero

Forex brokers have an INSANE amount of regulation that varies depending on what country you are in. As a us citizen, I cant even trade with a couple of the major brokerage houses due to government regulations

I HIGHLY doubt bit4x meets the operating guidelines required by law of brokerage firms (meaning they can be shut down by government authorities)

That's IF they don't just run off with your money.

Be careful people.

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: proudhon on October 02, 2012, 02:51:15 PM

I anxiously await a report of the first Bit4xonging.

Lol I see what you did there! Cheesy

proudhon

legendary

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1311

I anxiously await a report of the first Bit4xonging.

Enky1974

sr. member

Activity: 254

Merit: 250

Quote from: labestiol on October 02, 2012, 01:57:39 PM

Can you explain the same trade with BTC/USD loosing, say, 20% meanwhile ?

Yes, nothing will change in btc, just in usd:
actual btc/usd ratio is 12.70$ per btc

you earned 17.5 btc, or 17.50 times 12.70$ = 222.25$ profit from that trade

in the second case with a drop of 20% at mtgox
you earned 17.5btc, or 17.50 times 10.16$ (12.70-20% drop at mtgox) = 177.8$ profit from that trade

you still have 17.54 btc profit on your account in both cases regardless of BTC vs other currencies

labestiol

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 251

Quote from: Enky1974 on October 02, 2012, 01:50:58 PM

It is not complicated, i'll report, again, one of the trade i did these days:

Account leverage 1:10
Account deposit 100 btc
Allowed to open a position size of 0.01 lots MAX

Opened long position on EUR/USD at 1.28882 on 12 sept 2012
Closed long position on EUR/USD at 1.31143 on 14 sept 2012

1.31143 divided by 1.28882 = 1.01754318 or ~1.75%

1.75% profit on my position times 10 ( the leverage of my account) =17.54%

17.54% of 100 btc of position size = 17.54 btc profit

account now 117 btc from 100btc

note: position margin size VISUALIZED on mt4 while the TRADE WAS OPEN was 77 because they convert the magin size with actual eur/usd cross ratio (100/1.29=~77) i think due to an internal technical reason of the broker, this doesnt affect your trading, your PROFIT IS COMPUTED USING 100 BTC.

INCREASING THE LEVERAGE wouldn't have changed the sort of that example, it would have simply reduced the margin from 77 down to 7.7 in the case of 100 to 1 leverage and so on..., to increase the margin you have to increase the POSITION SIZE IN LOTS

Hope it is clear:)

Cya

Can you explain the same trade with BTC/USD loosing, say, 20% meanwhile ?

Enky1974

sr. member

Activity: 254

Merit: 250

It is not complicated, i'll report, again, one of the trade i did these days:

Account leverage 1:10
Account deposit 100 btc
Allowed to open a position size of 0.01 lots MAX

Opened long position on EUR/USD at 1.28882 on 12 sept 2012
Closed long position on EUR/USD at 1.31143 on 14 sept 2012

1.31143 divided by 1.28882 = 1.01754318 or ~1.75%

1.75% profit on my position times 10 ( the leverage of my account) =17.54%

17.54% of 100 btc of position size = 17.54 btc profit

account now 117 btc from 100btc

note: position margin size VISUALIZED on mt4 while the TRADE WAS OPEN was 77 because they convert the magin size with actual eur/usd cross ratio (100/1.29=~77) i think due to an internal technical reason of the broker, this doesnt affect your trading, your PROFIT IS COMPUTED USING 100 BTC.

INCREASING THE LEVERAGE wouldn't have changed the sort of that example, it would have simply reduced the margin from 77 down to 7.7 in the case of 100 to 1 leverage and so on..., to increase the margin you have to increase the POSITION SIZE IN LOTS

Hope it is clear:)

Cya

labestiol

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 251

Quote from: kakobrekla on October 02, 2012, 12:18:37 PM

Quote from: labestiol on October 02, 2012, 12:15:57 PM

Yep, but it'll affect your margin. If BTC/USD is up, your margin is increased, and vice-versa. Right ?

Accually no, if you want to go into details, margin is affected by EUR/USD rate, but its going in your favour anyway.
There seems to be no way around this until the BTC will be one of the 'official' Forex currencies. You can read about margin details here: http://btctrading.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/714/

If your margin is denominated is BTC for a trade on EUR/USD, then it has to be affected by BTC/USD (and/or BTC/EUR).
If your margin is not denominated in BTC, say in USD, then it means that your short BTC/USD (because you had to sell btc to get usd margin).

Disclosure : Had an exhausting day, I may be saying crap. Please explain me all the transactions when opening a position, that could work better.

FreeMoney

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1016

Strength in numbers

Quote from: Foxtra on October 02, 2012, 11:50:52 AM

" Bitcoins are volatile, can you guarantee my payouts if Bitcoins rise or fall in value?
Yes, our broker VenetFX holds extra Bitcoin reserves, twice the sum of all clients deposits at all times. Just in case that won't be enough, the broker will acquire more Bitcoins on the market. "

This is enough to say that I won't put a single $ or BTC on this broker.

No kidding, how could twice all balances ever not be enough? They obv plan to fail at that and then they will fail at getting them at all.

Topic: [NEWS] Bit4x.com - First FOREX accepts bitcoin! - 1:1000 Leverage!!! - page 7. (Read 49970 times)