Topic: NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS - page 154. (Read 1053098 times)

NOBL community, this is Joe from XMG. I must be frank that I'm actually a fan of NOBL. I am glad people like PoS-II; the following post has most of the details regarding the PoS-II: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9991269 feel free to let me know if you want to know more or any suggestions.

Specifically I want to talk about the interest; two options:

#1: low interest, APR never greater than 5%. As someone already pointed out, high interest rate may work in a short term but not good in the long run. Decentralization could be the issue for high-interest PoS, because some people tend to stock coin to gain more rewards, and this fact will make those people who can't gain enough coins to stake tend to sell their coins (there is saying PoS coin's price gets dilution), you know what will happen then. While this is not an obvious consequence, but might end up with that in the long run.

#2: dynamic interest depending on the time (I suggest depending on the network weight too); maybe something like the PoW mining using reward reduction scheme, example: APR0 at 1st month, APR0 * r (r < 1) for 2nd month, APR0 * r^2 for 3rd month, and so on until getting to the final level (e.g., < 5%).

I give my vote to option #1. NOBL doesn't need to attract more people, cause it's already notable. It's right that high interest will attract newcomers at the beginning, but we likely see a day they are going with a dumping left behind even big hurt to the coin. Staking should not be the main reason for one holding coins, if they do, they will dump sooner or later. Also, I'd like to put the fairness of coin distribution at the first place.

The people have spoken!

I spent last two days working on a typical PoS wallet for Noble. But since there is overwhelming and almost unanimous support for taking the Magi Coin route I am going to put typical wallet onhold and investigate Magi Coin wallet. Will also reach out to Joe from their team.

Interest rate of 5-10% sounds good. We can also start with 10% and lower it after some time.

The issue has been discussed in circles over and over again - I agree that higher interest vs low interest pros and cons become less relevant with time. The primary issue is actual usage and adoption which cannot happen without some form of mainstream recognition and connections to the real financial world.

I would support #1, with exact % between 5 and 10% that we can agree on.

The issue has been discussed in circles over and over again - I agree that higher interest vs low interest pros and cons become less relevant with time. The primary issue is actual usage and adoption which cannot happen without some form of mainstream recognition and connections to the real financial world.

I would support #1, with exact % between 5 and 10% that we can agree on.

NOBL community, this is Joe from XMG. I must be frank that I'm actually a fan of NOBL. I am glad people like PoS-II; the following post has most of the details regarding the PoS-II: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9991269 feel free to let me know if you want to know more or any suggestions.

Specifically I want to talk about the interest; two options:

#1: low interest, APR never greater than 5%. As someone already pointed out, high interest rate may work in a short term but not good in the long run. Decentralization could be the issue for high-interest PoS, because some people tend to stock coin to gain more rewards, and this fact will make those people who can't gain enough coins to stake tend to sell their coins (there is saying PoS coin's price gets dilution), you know what will happen then. While this is not an obvious consequence, but might end up with that in the long run.

#2: dynamic interest depending on the time (I suggest depending on the network weight too); maybe something like the PoW mining using reward reduction scheme, example: APR0 at 1st month, APR0 * r (r < 1) for 2nd month, APR0 * r^2 for 3rd month, and so on until getting to the final level (e.g., < 5%).

I give my vote to option #1. NOBL doesn't need to attract more people, cause it's already notable. It's right that high interest will attract newcomers at the beginning, but we likely see a day they are going with a dumping left behind even big hurt to the coin. Staking should not be the main reason for one holding coins, if they do, they will dump sooner or later. Also, I'd like to put the fairness of coin distribution at the first place.

Sounds interesting. Be careful not to have too many people working on a pos fork now, otherwise you may end up with several wallets and disappointed helping hands.

his email:
[email protected]

Thought there was his telephon number, too. but I can't find it anymore.

Let's gather PoS related ideas which were proposed so far:

1. [voephilis] Use PoS parameters which were considered in Oct. Interest rate starts at 100% then is being lowered several times until it reaches 1%.  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9096942
2. [Boreiv, kresuk] Use same PoS parameters which Rofo considered recently with interest rate 5-10%
3. [fairglu] Switch to PoS without using an exchange.
4. [kresuk] Use swap rate of 5:1 or 10:1 e.g. for 5/10 current coins people get 1 new "pos" coin. 
5. [voephilisI] Joe, the dev of Coin Magi is willing to help. His message: "I can experiment the hybrid PoW/PoS like XMG, but it's also fine with the pure PoS; I strongly recommend XMG's PoS-II, it's more safe compared to the implementation of PoS 2.0 by blackcoin and much more network activities triggered by PoS-II comparing with the PoSV of REDD as it advertised. Feel free to let me know what I can do."

Here's my $.02 on each:
[1] Looks good to me. We are already close to 2 billions coins so the 100% interest rate would be working just at the very beginning. This could work by attracting people to stake just after the switch and at least some of them will continue to do so even with lower interest rate. Also bear in mind that interest rate is not the only PoS parameter available. We could also cap max reward per block.
[2] I think 5% is too low. 10% is OK. The problem may be to find people interested in keeping their wallets open all the time which is important since this is how the network is secured in PoS.
[3] This is interesting because we can do the switch without relying on external parties. Also decide freely what swap rate to choose and so on. However if we follow this route there will be two noblecoins in existence. So in fact we will still need to talk with exchanges either to de-list the old noblecoin or ask them to add new noblecoin-pos.
[4] The idea of having less coins is to push the price higher hoping that with swap rate 10:1 price also goes 10 times higher e.g. to 70 SAT now. However there is risk people who are not actively looking at Noble will treat increase in price as pump and in the end price may end up lower than 10 times higher. So in the end market cap of Noble may go down.
[5] This is most revolutionary idea. Switch to new version of PoS potentially avoiding some pitfalls related to the well known PoS which is used by many coins. This sounds good. However by choosing this path we change drastically Noblecoin's image. What I mean by this is Rofo chose 'stable yet boring route' and this attracted all of us here. This is what usually people in traditional finance like. To have something you can rely on even if it produces lower returns. I am not sure if making such a bold move would be good long term. There is much higher risk that hard fork will be needed if serious issues are found in the new PoS code. Short term it should be good as it is always easier to advertise bold moves in crypto world.

Please share your thoughts. At this point I do not like [4] but would like to further discuss remaining points.

yep that is why it stated that I sent him a PM already lol. as for the idea, it will be coming to fruition either way, but I would love to use it to help out the most "noble" coin as well as change so many other things too, that it will inherently effect positively

Usually the fastest way to contact him is pm or IRC private message.

Im really curious about your idea now..

@rofo

I sent you a PM to see if you are up for a discussion (voice on something like skype or I can call you at a phone number, up to you) about some tech that could help add physical support to just about any coin, however Noble would be the one in current existence I would rather support than any other honestly, from our dealings in the past you have definitely proven yourself beyond what anyone else in the industry has up till now, (not saying anyone else is not out there, just saying I have not had personal dealings with anyone myself that is as stand up as you)

you can message me here, or on skype (architct is the USER name there, and should show up as Thomas A. Anderson when searching that name) same name can be used on google+ too, just look for a guy in dark goggles and a tophat, you remember my goggles I am sure, so...

to all others, if this idea I have and tech I am working on, is brought together you can expect to see the fecal matter hit the rotary blades in the crypto-world lol.

Let's gather PoS related ideas which were proposed so far:

1. [voephilis] Use PoS parameters which were considered in Oct. Interest rate starts at 100% then is being lowered several times until it reaches 1%.  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9096942
2. [Boreiv, kresuk] Use same PoS parameters which Rofo considered recently with interest rate 5-10%
3. [fairglu] Switch to PoS without using an exchange.
4. [kresuk] Use swap rate of 5:1 or 10:1 e.g. for 5/10 current coins people get 1 new "pos" coin. 
5. [voephilisI] Joe, the dev of Coin Magi is willing to help. His message: "I can experiment the hybrid PoW/PoS like XMG, but it's also fine with the pure PoS; I strongly recommend XMG's PoS-II, it's more safe compared to the implementation of PoS 2.0 by blackcoin and much more network activities triggered by PoS-II comparing with the PoSV of REDD as it advertised. Feel free to let me know what I can do."

Here's my $.02 on each:
[1] Looks good to me. We are already close to 2 billions coins so the 100% interest rate would be working just at the very beginning. This could work by attracting people to stake just after the switch and at least some of them will continue to do so even with lower interest rate. Also bear in mind that interest rate is not the only PoS parameter available. We could also cap max reward per block.
[2] I think 5% is too low. 10% is OK. The problem may be to find people interested in keeping their wallets open all the time which is important since this is how the network is secured in PoS.
[3] This is interesting because we can do the switch without relying on external parties. Also decide freely what swap rate to choose and so on. However if we follow this route there will be two noblecoins in existence. So in fact we will still need to talk with exchanges either to de-list the old noblecoin or ask them to add new noblecoin-pos.
[4] The idea of having less coins is to push the price higher hoping that with swap rate 10:1 price also goes 10 times higher e.g. to 70 SAT now. However there is risk people who are not actively looking at Noble will treat increase in price as pump and in the end price may end up lower than 10 times higher. So in the end market cap of Noble may go down.
[5] This is most revolutionary idea. Switch to new version of PoS potentially avoiding some pitfalls related to the well known PoS which is used by many coins. This sounds good. However by choosing this path we change drastically Noblecoin's image. What I mean by this is Rofo chose 'stable yet boring route' and this attracted all of us here. This is what usually people in traditional finance like. To have something you can rely on even if it produces lower returns. I am not sure if making such a bold move would be good long term. There is much higher risk that hard fork will be needed if serious issues are found in the new PoS code. Short term it should be good as it is always easier to advertise bold moves in crypto world.

Please share your thoughts. At this point I do not like [4] but would like to further discuss remaining points.