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Topic: NSA KNOWS - page 7. (Read 8332 times)

hero member
Activity: 886
Merit: 1013
August 04, 2015, 11:35:04 AM
#49
Spy on me how?

BTC -> Nicehash (let say) -> Hash Seller -> Pointed at anonymous url routing to a private pool or full node of yours-> Paid in freshly generated coins to a completely unrelated wallet/coin. You can then exchange that to whatever you want or just spend it.

There are segments of tracability, which are hard to follow, then the Seller isint connected to your IP in any way at any time. You could do this from any connection and anywhere in the world (with internet).

I am not even sure its necessary to obfuscate the target pool as i am not sure there even is a way for to track who found a block for most coins anyways.



I think he addressed this post to the ones who think that bitcoin provides anonymity without additional privacy enhancing steps.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1011
August 04, 2015, 11:29:29 AM
#48
He isn't talking about blockchain.info, and what he says is true. If someone were to connect to every single node out there (very difficult to do BTW),
Virtually impossible. Even if you managed get connected to, let's say, 6000 nodes. How do you know if there is still an unknown percentage of nodes that you're not connected to yet?

Quote
then that person would know which IP address a transaction originated from. Then that person would be able to know that that IP address most likely owns the inputs of the transaction.
This involves a huge uncertainty. If some node broadcasts a transaction, it will be propagated throughout the network immediately.

The theoretical "superconnected NSA node" would get the same tx from hundreds of different nodes within milliseconds. The information you can retrieve from that about the originating IP is slim to none.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
August 04, 2015, 11:16:39 AM
#47
I'm talking about the first point. He is saying the first node which process (relays the transaction). It is hard to find out which is the IP it originated from without directly connection to the client itself. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That is true. I think both of you are saying the same thing.

Basically, if you were to connect to every single node in the world, then you would be able to know which IP address sent what transaction. It would simply be the node that first relays the transaction is the node that owns the private keys of the transactions inputs. As I said earlier, there are ways around this through tor, i2p and vpns.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1068
August 04, 2015, 11:12:59 AM
#46
Spy on me how?

BTC -> Nicehash (let say) -> Hash Seller -> Pointed at anonymous url routing to a private pool or full node of yours-> Paid in freshly generated coins to a completely unrelated wallet/coin. You can then exchange that to whatever you want or just spend it.

There are segments of tracability, which are hard to follow, then the Seller isint connected to your IP in any way at any time. You could do this from any connection and anywhere in the world (with internet).

I am not even sure its necessary to obfuscate the target pool as i am not sure there even is a way for to track who found a block for most coins anyways.

legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 4418
Crypto Swap Exchange
August 04, 2015, 11:09:20 AM
#45


So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.
Then you have read from the wrong source. The IP displayed on site like blockchain.info is merely the first node which relayed it. It is very inaccurate as people can connect to different nodes at different locations.
He isn't talking about blockchain.info, and what he says is true. If someone were to connect to every single node out there (very difficult to do BTW), then that person would know which IP address a transaction originated from. Then that person would be able to know that that IP address most likely owns the inputs of the transaction. However, there are ways around this by using Tor, i2p, or VPNs.
I'm talking about the first point. He is saying the first node which process (relays the transaction). It is hard to find out which is the IP it originated from without directly connection to the client itself. Correct me if I'm wrong.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
August 04, 2015, 10:57:59 AM
#44


So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.
Then you have read from the wrong source. The IP displayed on site like blockchain.info is merely the first node which relayed it. It is very inaccurate as people can connect to different nodes at different locations.
He isn't talking about blockchain.info, and what he says is true. If someone were to connect to every single node out there (very difficult to do BTW), then that person would know which IP address a transaction originated from. Then that person would be able to know that that IP address most likely owns the inputs of the transaction. However, there are ways around this by using Tor, i2p, or VPNs.
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 4418
Crypto Swap Exchange
August 04, 2015, 10:48:57 AM
#43
Off-chain transaction or Darkwallet should make it harder for them, ew already know that transaction are tracable with some efforts and they can build system and basically all someone need to know where are you and who are you is your IP address
Darkwallet doesn't properly work, its very early version what's out there. Only if they keep releasing it we'll have any sort of anonimity. BTC right is just not anonymous at all. Maybe CoinJoin helps too but I have no idea how that works yet.

BTC is semi anonymous. You would need to use obfuscation services to clear your tracks.

For now we'll have to rely on trading BTC to an anonymous coin or service and then to Fiat or BTC with your tracks cleared. Its a bit of a pain right now, but maybe there will be more streamlined method when the demand raise further.
Bitcoin is pseudonymous. Trading it back and forth via various exchanges probably wouldn't help as they require verification once you hit a certain limit or when you register. Bitcoin is never designed to be anonymous at all. It can be pseudonymous from the general public if you don't reuse address and don't reveal the addresses to anyone else. Mixers service would ensure that the transactions wouldn't link together hence it would be quite anonymous.

Indeed, i don't mean depositing to an exchange or any services that log information such as IP, etc. I strictly mean manually obfuscating or obfuscation services such as mixers or instant coin exchange that doesnt log ip.

Manually i'm talking about clever way of spending your BTC but getting it back, like buying hash and running it through an untraceable route Wink
Exchanges mostly don't delete logs. For mixers, they say that they don't keep logs but there isn't a way to prove that. In fact, some services has turned out to be a scam or is not anonymous enough. There was a post which described Shared coin as not being secure enough and can leak information. For the buying hash part, that would be completely wrong. Most sellers would sell at a higher price than expected gained profit to gain a profit. No guarantees that they won't spy on you.


So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.
Then you have read from the wrong source. The IP displayed on site like blockchain.info is merely the first node which relayed it. It is very inaccurate as people can connect to different nodes at different locations.
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1023
August 04, 2015, 10:38:57 AM
#42
Yeah bitcoin is really not anonymous, but you can takes to improve the anonymity of it such as not directly connecting to nodes. Web based wallets could also be used I suppose to avoid connecting to nodes.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
August 04, 2015, 10:37:30 AM
#41
Create your wallets on an OFFLINE computer!!!

And keep it empty and offline. That will show them.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
August 04, 2015, 10:35:20 AM
#40
It's okay, I'm wearing my tinfoil hat.

Remeber this when you wake up an you find your wallet empty.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
August 04, 2015, 10:34:35 AM
#39
Create your wallets on an OFFLINE computer!!!
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
August 04, 2015, 10:29:57 AM
#38
It's okay, I'm wearing my tinfoil hat.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1068
August 04, 2015, 10:22:25 AM
#37
Have not checked if you can stack up protection like that since downloading torrents is legal here. Problem is the torrent software that try to get the shortest route ignoring Tor.

Nope you can protect your IP. However using alternative protocol is probably another necessity. A good thing to use is forcing encryption, that way you're at least reducing the chance of giving others proof of what the content of what you are downloading is.

I am not sure if uTP from uTorrent is still good, but at least it let me hide what i downloaded and that i was torrenting from my ISP. The ISP had deep packet inspection and used that to determine the download speed, effectively the ISP was throttling torrents, legitimate ones or not.
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1363
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
August 04, 2015, 10:19:29 AM
#36
Some say that I2P is more anonymous than Tor. But I don't know if it's true. Isn't there any difference between I2P and Tor because they look alike. Or maybe I'm missing something  Huh
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
August 04, 2015, 10:16:39 AM
#35
Here is the software. What, you thought money laundering was going to be legal with bitcoin?

https://www.elliptic.co/bigbang-v1.html
And it's not the NSA, it is the FBI and IRS that will use this. Along with dozens of other governments around the world.

Funny how keeping your transaction anonymity is basically the same process as "laundering". Semantics aside, i believe doing anonymous transactions, if not with ill obtained gains, is completely legal?



So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.

Hmm well, yes it is possible for your IP to be logged. Nothing prevent you from hiding it, however, i believe. IP browsing security is a hot trend lately so that's not particularly a new thing to keep in mind. Definitively worth a go if you .torrent Tongue

If you are using torrents your IP get loged even trough Tor. No hiding is possible.

What about using Tor and VPN at the same time. Maybe that will provide greater anonymity. I use Tor and Hotspot Shield at the same time. I think Hotspot Shield is the best.  Roll Eyes

Have not checked if you can stack up protection like that since downloading torrents is legal here. Problem is the torrent software that try to get the shortest route ignoring Tor.
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1363
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
August 04, 2015, 10:15:13 AM
#34
Here is the software. What, you thought money laundering was going to be legal with bitcoin?

https://www.elliptic.co/bigbang-v1.html
And it's not the NSA, it is the FBI and IRS that will use this. Along with dozens of other governments around the world.

Funny how keeping your transaction anonymity is basically the same process as "laundering". Semantics aside, i believe doing anonymous transactions, if not with ill obtained gains, is completely legal?



So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.

Hmm well, yes it is possible for your IP to be logged. Nothing prevent you from hiding it, however, i believe. IP browsing security is a hot trend lately so that's not particularly a new thing to keep in mind. Definitively worth a go if you .torrent Tongue

If you are using torrents your IP get loged even trough Tor. No hiding is possible.

What about using Tor and VPN at the same time. Maybe that will provide greater anonymity. I use Tor and Hotspot Shield at the same time. I think Hotspot Shield is the best.  Roll Eyes

If you buy BTC throught a exchange using fiat there's no amount of anonymity you can take, it's pointless, when you enter your data they'll know how much BTC in total have you ever bought, then they could ask where all that bought BTC went tho. If you refuse to talk they'll probably pay a new law that says you'll go to jail if you don't tell where the BTC are, they'll not even need to do actual research because they know you have x BTC bought from there.


Well, what about a decentralized exchange such as Coinffeine? Is it anonymous to exchange Bitcoin to fiat using such services?

By the way here's Coinffeine's description on their main page:

Quote
Coinffeine is an open source, peer-to-peer (P2P) bitcoin exchange platform. With Coinffeine you are able to buy and sell bitcoins securely and anonymously without having to rely on a centralized exchange. It's like BitTorrent for your bitcoins!
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1028
August 04, 2015, 10:10:27 AM
#33
Here is the software. What, you thought money laundering was going to be legal with bitcoin?

https://www.elliptic.co/bigbang-v1.html
And it's not the NSA, it is the FBI and IRS that will use this. Along with dozens of other governments around the world.

Funny how keeping your transaction anonymity is basically the same process as "laundering". Semantics aside, i believe doing anonymous transactions, if not with ill obtained gains, is completely legal?



So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.

Hmm well, yes it is possible for your IP to be logged. Nothing prevent you from hiding it, however, i believe. IP browsing security is a hot trend lately so that's not particularly a new thing to keep in mind. Definitively worth a go if you .torrent Tongue

If you are using torrents your IP get loged even trough Tor. No hiding is possible.

What about using Tor and VPN at the same time. Maybe that will provide greater anonymity. I use Tor and Hotspot Shield at the same time. I think Hotspot Shield is the best.  Roll Eyes

If you buy BTC throught a exchange using fiat there's no amount of anonymity you can take, it's pointless, when you enter your data they'll know how much BTC in total have you ever bought, then they could ask where all that bought BTC went tho. If you refuse to talk they'll probably pay a new law that says you'll go to jail if you don't tell where the BTC are, they'll not even need to do actual research because they know you have x BTC bought from there.
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1363
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
August 04, 2015, 10:07:33 AM
#32
Here is the software. What, you thought money laundering was going to be legal with bitcoin?

https://www.elliptic.co/bigbang-v1.html
And it's not the NSA, it is the FBI and IRS that will use this. Along with dozens of other governments around the world.

Funny how keeping your transaction anonymity is basically the same process as "laundering". Semantics aside, i believe doing anonymous transactions, if not with ill obtained gains, is completely legal?



So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.

Hmm well, yes it is possible for your IP to be logged. Nothing prevent you from hiding it, however, i believe. IP browsing security is a hot trend lately so that's not particularly a new thing to keep in mind. Definitively worth a go if you .torrent Tongue

If you are using torrents your IP get loged even trough Tor. No hiding is possible.

What about using Tor and VPN at the same time. Maybe that will provide greater anonymity. I use Tor and Hotspot Shield at the same time. I think Hotspot Shield is the best.  Roll Eyes
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
August 04, 2015, 10:04:44 AM
#31
Here is the software. What, you thought money laundering was going to be legal with bitcoin?

https://www.elliptic.co/bigbang-v1.html
And it's not the NSA, it is the FBI and IRS that will use this. Along with dozens of other governments around the world.

Funny how keeping your transaction anonymity is basically the same process as "laundering". Semantics aside, i believe doing anonymous transactions, if not with ill obtained gains, is completely legal?



So how is the NSA going to detect how much bitcoins Joe has, or what he is receiving or spending? How are they going to monitor "his" Bitcoin traffic, considering that the P2P traffic he sends and receives is effectively the whole current Bitcoin P2P state, with anyone and everyone's data mixed together.

I read somewhere that when a transaction is broadcasted to the network then the first node to process that transaction is very likely the sender himself.
Also read that peers can see your IP when the transaction is sent to the network but only from peers that you are connected to.If peers have ability to attach an IP to a transaction wouldn't for example NSA peers be able to log IP of every transactions that go through them, can peers chose which transaction they want to broadcast or is this random?
When i use my client it usually says i am connected to a certain numbers of peers, what does these peers know about me?

Sorry if my questions seems confusing, i am not very tech sawy but if you could explain how it all works i'd appreciate.

Hmm well, yes it is possible for your IP to be logged. Nothing prevent you from hiding it, however, i believe. IP browsing security is a hot trend lately so that's not particularly a new thing to keep in mind. Definitively worth a go if you .torrent Tongue

If you are using torrents your IP get loged even trough Tor. No hiding is possible.
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1363
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
August 04, 2015, 10:00:21 AM
#30
Well, I don't know but I think Monero has a great level of anonymity (not to mention other coins such as BitcoinDark and Dash). Maybe the NSA can't trace your transactions with these coins?  Huh
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