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Topic: | Nxt | Blockchain Platform | Proof of Stake | Official - page 251. (Read 941328 times)

legendary
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amarha
There should be some sort of social organization where people who are substantial holders either publically lease their stake out to a group of known forgers(similar to DPoS) or publically state that they won't lease their stake out and forge themselves.
Why do you think that would be necessary? Substantial stakehodlers have a good reason to protect the network: securing the future of their stakes.

They do but if they lease their stakes to an attacker then the attacker has a chance to mount their attack at a much lower cost.

Sometimes people choose short term gains over long term gains because they don't fully realize the consequence of their actions. Like Bitcoin miners mining of Ghash during the period where they went over the 50% threshold.

So what I'm saying is that people need to fully acknowledge the dangers of leasing stake and have at least some sort of social system that demonstrates a commitment to securing the network.

I don't even really understand why leasing stake exists in the first place. I guess the only reason someone would lease their stake is to reduce their variance in staking rewards? And what does the person renting this stake gain? I assume they're paying less than the expected value of what the stake would generate else it wouldn't be profitable. Also it makes it more complicated that there's no block rewards so the expected value would have to be estimated on some sort of average transaction fees over time I guess.

So it's basically this?: The only reason leasing exists is because it would exist regardless, someone would build such a system to allow stake leasing whether it was "officially" sanctioned or not?
legendary
Activity: 1181
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Damelon thanks for the link and I hope you don't mind me quoting you here, but I totally agree on your observations:
Quote
What makes Vitalik so very strong is that he's actually a very good writer. He writes clear and pleasant English.
He also has the know-how to rather simply explain the concepts that most people on social media just fumble around with.
When you put the two together, that alone gives him the edge over fudders, who inevitably have to resort to "your mum" level, because they either don't have the know-how or the language to counter him.

The way he picks the argument apart in posts like this is a joy to read and an education. Regardless of what I may or may not think about Ethereum, as a writer about crypto he's very important and most of these articles are platform agnostic anyway, so it helps everyone who is serious about the crypto movement and not júst in it for being a fanboy of whatever coin/platform.
Source: https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=6749.msg134651#msg134651
legendary
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hero member
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Announcement
Friends and supporters of ORA, I am very pleased to announce that ORA will be a Monetary System (MS) currency running on top of the NXT platform. 

As you will no doubt be aware, the founding members of ORA have taken quite a while to survey and consider all the current  tech options  available to us, and in the end the choice was obvious to ALL of us, and the decision was unanimous!

When the ORA project was launched in May we made it clear that our first task was community building, and we would attempt at every stage to create a fully decentralized, robust, & leaderless organizational structure to best match the goals and ideals of the crypto currency pioneers like Satoshi Nakamoto and BCNext. 

ORA is a ‘Starfish’,  and over the last six months we have learnt a lot from NXT, which bay any measure is THE most decentralized and robust of all current crypto currency communities to date. It seems fitting therefore, that ORA will become one of the first MS currencies using the NXT monetary system - the little ORA starfish riding on top of the bigger NXT starfish.

Organisational structure is critical to long-term success, and NXT is decentralised, leaderless and open to everyone and anyone, just as ORA is!

When CFB first suggested this option in June the only real reservation was that ORA would be dependent on the NXT platform for its very existence. Six months on, as NXT celebrates its first birthday we believe the connection with NXT is a major advantage for ORA. The NXT ecosystem is resilient, vibrant, and grows stronger every day, and the development output over the last 12 months has been truly staggering. NXT is obviously here to stay!
 
We believe the NXT platform offers ORA long term network stability, just as TCP/IP offers stability for higher order protocols like HTTP, FTP, SMTP, and this stability will allow us to focus our resources and attention on the more ‘retail’ level concerns, like user experience, leaving the ‘backstage’ grunt work of network security and stability for NXT.

With ORA as an MS currency we are confident that the NXT network is established and robust, and we can safely leave the tasks of network security to the NXT platform, and that lets ORA focus on ‘higher order’ tasks, like usability, marketing, real world uses, and community building.

The synergies possible with NXT made this an easy and obvious choice!

NXT really is like TCP/IP for crypto now, and the ORA mind-set has always been about finding success through working co-operatively with other projects, so re-inventing the network security 'wheel' ourselves seems like a waste of resources.

After observing NXT closely over the last 12 months we know its future is very bright, and this choice does in some way go towards fulfilling some of BCNext’s ultimate goals for NXT.

As always, we welcome any feedback our stakeholders might have, and we take this opportunity to invite all people to join us, particularly those with dev skills who are interested in developing the ORA applications that will run on NXT. Remember, ORA has considerable community funds, and after six months we have established ourselves as an honest and credible group of people interested in advancing the crypto currency movement. If you are looking for a crypto project to get involved with then please consider helping ORA!

hero member
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happy birthday NXT !

you made good this year and you will make better the next.  Grin
hero member
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hero member
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Merit: 500
There should be some sort of social organization where people who are substantial holders either publically lease their stake out to a group of known forgers(similar to DPoS) or publically state that they won't lease their stake out and forge themselves.
Why do you think that would be necessary? Substantial stakehodlers have a good reason to protect the network: securing the future of their stakes.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
Have people considered nominating a group of trusted people in the community that people can lease their forging power to?

If there was an open market for leasing(is there?) I think that would be a bad thing in general. As it would allow an attacker to gain more forging power than they would be entitled to by actually having to buy up all those coins(which is a big part of the security behind PoS). Just like now in PoW anyone who knows how and has a few BTC can attack any number of blockchains that aren't strong just by renting some hash for short period. In this regard PoS is much more superior, but only if an attacker can't similarly acquire forging power as people can now rent hashing power.
It is an open market and will stay that way. If the implementation was limited in Nxt core someone would code it as an addon. Having a "trusted group" as the only party people can lease their forging power to would break the principle of decentralized trust free network.

EDIT:
But IMO there's no point to forging pools in the first place, or in fact they are very bad already. Leasing your stake is easier than forging by yourself, which leads to lower number of forgers and a weaker network. You actually lower the network's security by leasing out your stake, and get paid for doing so.

There should be some sort of social organization where people who are substantial holders either publically lease their stake out to a group of known forgers(similar to DPoS) or publically state that they won't lease their stake out and forge themselves.

You're right that an open market is going to come about anyway, so having some social solutions that can help mitigate the risks might be a good idea(if there aren't already that is, I don't know).
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
happy bday NXT! I remember how sceptic i was when you were released. i am pretty impressed how far you have come Wink
legendary
Activity: 1190
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Happy birthday! Cheesy
legendary
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hero member
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legendary
Activity: 2156
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Happy birthday Nxt !
hero member
Activity: 854
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Anyway guys, Happy birthday Nxt.

One year ago today, the NXT Genesis block was created. It's been an interesting year, putting it mildly.

So, as part of the celebrations, heres a fun NXT first birthday project:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/20/lohan_sponsor_nxt/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/Wrap/lohan/
https://nxtforum.org/nxt-promotion/nxt-in-space!/
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/nxt-first-coin-space/

No more 'NXT 2 da Moon!', but 'NXT to the upper stratosphere!'   Grin 
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250



Anyway guys, Happy birthday Nxt.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Have people considered nominating a group of trusted people in the community that people can lease their forging power to?

If there was an open market for leasing(is there?) I think that would be a bad thing in general. As it would allow an attacker to gain more forging power than they would be entitled to by actually having to buy up all those coins(which is a big part of the security behind PoS). Just like now in PoW anyone who knows how and has a few BTC can attack any number of blockchains that aren't strong just by renting some hash for short period. In this regard PoS is much more superior, but only if an attacker can't similarly acquire forging power as people can now rent hashing power.
It is an open market and will stay that way. If the implementation was limited in Nxt core someone would code it as an addon. Having a "trusted group" as the only party people can lease their forging power to would break the principle of decentralized trust free network.

EDIT:
But IMO there's no point to forging pools in the first place, or in fact they are very bad already. Leasing your stake is easier than forging by yourself, which leads to lower number of forgers and a weaker network. You actually lower the network's security by leasing out your stake, and get paid for doing so.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
DPOS is Nxt+leased forging with a different forging algo. So says ByteMaster, core dev of Bitshares...

Have people considered nominating a group of trusted people in the community that people can lease their forging power to?

If there was an open market for leasing(is there?) I think that would be a bad thing in general. As it would allow an attacker to gain more forging power than they would be entitled to by actually having to buy up all those coins(which is a big part of the security behind PoS). Just like now in PoW anyone who knows how and has a few BTC can attack any number of blockchains that aren't strong just by renting some hash for short period. In this regard PoS is much more superior, but only if an attacker can't similarly acquire forging power as people can now rent hashing power.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
DPOS is Nxt+leased forging with a different forging algo. So says ByteMaster, core dev of Bitshares...

Cool
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
DPOS is Nxt+leased forging with a different forging algo. So says ByteMaster, core dev of Bitshares...
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