NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1403.

Damelon

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1010

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:45:32 AM

OK, I can't keep up responding to all of you jumping at me like this.

I'm not jumping at you. I respect your position. I just disagree and want to explain why.
I understand the worries, but don't think it will be that much of an issue.

I also respect you for voicing your opinion!

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:40:44 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on January 23, 2014, 11:33:00 AM

I dont think you understand the meaning of the term "RESPECTED academic". I capitalized that important word there to stress the emphasis on that word for you.

Oh no, I understand it. Part of RESPECT is not taking money from people, whose work you are reviewing.

Or maybe it's just my right-and-wrong model is outdated, judging by the number of people here, who think it's totally Ok.

And if you plan him to go through source, then shouldn't you just hire a company to do your security audit, not an academic?

Hiring a reputable security company to audit the codes is not bad idea. Essentially it is the same idea so maybe it is worthwhile to explore this venue.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2014, 11:23:56 AM

Quote from: punkrock on January 23, 2014, 11:22:07 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2014, 11:19:41 AM

It seems to me u confused Nxt PoS algo and Nxt crypto algo. We collected 10 BTC for crypto audit only.

If I am right, there will be 10 more BTC from two different users - each 5 BTC.

No. CIYAM offered 5 BTC for PoS algo.

Note - I am flexible over this - if you can convince me that it is worth it for the crypto audit only then I will contribute the 5 BTC to that.

opticalcarrier

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:40:44 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on January 23, 2014, 11:33:00 AM

I dont think you understand the meaning of the term "RESPECTED academic". I capitalized that important word there to stress the emphasis on that word for you.

Oh no, I understand it. Part of RESPECT is not taking money from people, whose work you are reviewing.

this makes no sense whatsoever. It directly conflicts with any common sense, and also with your very last statement

Quote

Or maybe it's just my right-and-wrong model is outdated, judging by the number of people here, who think it's totally Ok.

thats ok, we all think you are a bit nutso yourself

Quote

And if you plan him to go through source, then shouldn't you just hire a company to do your security audit, not an academic?

wait, I thought it was immoral to "taking money from people, whose work you are reviewing" yet you are suggesting a company to do exactly this. Isnt then any company that would do this work for us immoral? Roll Eyes

Wait, do you mean to say that its fine for a company to do the work, and it not be immoral, yet it would be immoral for a academic type to provide the same services? Its not your "right-and-wrong model" that is outdated, nor your moral compass. its your whole ship that is upside down

NxtChg

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1002

Simcoin Developer

Quote from: CIYAM on January 23, 2014, 11:39:34 AM

Once again - you are having troubles understanding the academic world - important academics are not generally "rich" although they are also not generally "poor" either (so they don't work for nothing).

Exactly.

Quote from: CIYAM on January 23, 2014, 11:39:34 AM

Their reputation amongst their peers is *all important* to them - they are not at all likely to risk their reputation through shoddy work that is going to be "peer reviewed".

More reasons not to put any spots on that reputation by taking money.

OK, I can't keep up responding to all of you jumping at me like this.

So I will stop now. I can't veto the idea, all I can do is warn, which I did. So my work here is done.

Apparently, I need to upgrade my ethics...

BloodyRookie

hero member

Activity: 687

Merit: 500

IMO top academics != top coders, so if you want a code review those guys are probably not the best address.

Damelon

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1010

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:40:44 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on January 23, 2014, 11:33:00 AM

I dont think you understand the meaning of the term "RESPECTED academic". I capitalized that important word there to stress the emphasis on that word for you.

Oh no, I understand it. Part of RESPECT is not taking money from people, whose work you are reviewing.

Or maybe it's just my right-and-wrong model is outdated, judging by the number of people here, who think it's totally Ok.

And if you plan him to go through source, then shouldn't you just hire a company to do your security audit, not an academic?

Sad as it is, even academics need more money these days.
Let him put it towards funding some of his/her research.

Edit: CIYAM's version is even better.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:40:44 AM

And if you plan him to go through source, then shouldn't you just hire a company to do your security audit, not an academic?

The money would obviously be best *not* to go *directly* to the academic (nor would it in normal funding situations). You offer funding to a university with the condition that something gets researched but it is up to the university exactly how the funding is spent (as the client all you care about is that the paper is published by a sufficiently qualified academic).

NxtChg

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1002

Simcoin Developer

Quote from: opticalcarrier on January 23, 2014, 11:33:00 AM

I dont think you understand the meaning of the term "RESPECTED academic". I capitalized that important word there to stress the emphasis on that word for you.

Oh no, I understand it. Part of RESPECT is not taking money from people, whose work you are reviewing.

Or maybe it's just my right-and-wrong model is outdated, judging by the number of people here, who think it's totally Ok.

And if you plan him to go through source, then shouldn't you just hire a company to do your security audit, not an academic?

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:36:33 AM

You see the slippery slope yet?

Once again - you are having troubles understanding the academic world - important academics are not generally "rich" although they are also not generally "poor" either (so they don't work for nothing).

Their reputation amongst their peers is *all important* to them - they are not at all likely to risk their reputation through shoddy work that is going to be "peer reviewed".

Sure you could point as some examples say from "big tobacco" but understand that those scientists were paid "millions" not thousands.

Damelon

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1010

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:24:59 AM

Quote from: CIYAM on January 23, 2014, 11:16:18 AM

... a respected academic to thoroughly review Nxt and write a paper on it...

And paying $16,000 to a "respected academic" to review your whitepaper just doesn't feel right.

It reduces it to "9 out of 10 dentists recommend" kind of thing... Well, not exactly, but a step in that direction.

And I certainly wouldn't want people to say "oh, and that review they did? They paid $16,000 for it, so...".

I would read this in the complete opposite way.

The reason for that is that we would do it *completely in the open*

I would read it as "The NXT community is so commited to the integrity of their system that they were willing to hire an independent academic to take potshots at it to be sure it is safe and sound"

Same information, different interpretation.

Someone who will want to make it shady, will always try to make it look bad, but if we are completely open about it there is not a lot you can say.

The "9 out of 10 dentist" example is one where the deal would be hidden, so the comparison isn't valid.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:00:32 AM

Quote from: joefox on January 23, 2014, 10:41:12 AM

But "peer review" and "research" are not the same thing and I think you're a little confused. Or maybe you feed your family with air and sunshine?

You all should agree among yourselves first, what is it exactly you are paying for. As I understand it's neither research, nor peer review.

And you can juggle words however you like, it doesn't make it less wrong.

Academics/ researchers at the top echelon won't be bought by 10-20k $ ; if they are bought one and produce false results; some peers could find out and they would be discredited very soon. If you want academics/ researchers at the top echelon risk losing their integrity and reputation, you would probably have to pay a lot more than that.

Paying standard rates for a top-rated researcher working on a problem you are giving is a normal practice. I used to work for a top rate Economic-Political Institute so I know pretty well how researches are funded. While research works on paid assignment basis are often less rigorous than peer-reviewed articles, they are still of high quality and no one dare to intentionally make up a false mathematical or econometric result ever.

That's being said 16K$ perhaps too much if it only take 2-3 days to work it out our request. We should go by standard labor rates for these reviewing works.

NxtChg

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1002

Simcoin Developer

Quote from: msin on January 23, 2014, 11:28:33 AM

Then find someone who will do it for free.

So, to reverse your logic, if I can't find somebody who will do it free, I should go and pay somebody with questionable ethics, who will?

So if I can't, say, get a building permit from a government official, I should go and find somebody who can "solve my problem" for a fee?

You see the slippery slope yet?

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:24:59 AM

And I certainly wouldn't want people to say "oh, and that review they did? They paid $16,000 for it, so...".

You do realise that most university research into things like CO2 and global warming is paid for by large corporations the are in the generally not at all clean energy sphere?

A "respected" academic will have their reputation torn to pieces if their work is shoddy and deemed to be just "for money" so none will touch it "just for the money" unless the money is enough to make them no longer care about academia (and we are not offering anything like that amount).

opticalcarrier

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:24:59 AM

Quote from: CIYAM on January 23, 2014, 11:16:18 AM

... a respected academic to thoroughly review Nxt and write a paper on it...

That's still unclear. What is he gonna do? Go through source code?

EXACTLY

Quote

We don't have a whitepaper to review yet, right?

not needed for this operation, since they are reviewing source

Quote

And paying $16,000 to a "respected academic" to review your whitepaper just doesn't feel right.

It reduces it to "9 out of 10 dentists recommend" kind of thing... Well, not exactly, but a step in that direction.

And I certainly wouldn't want people to say "oh, and that review they did? They paid $16,000 for it, so...".

I dont think you understand the meaning of the term "RESPECTED academic". I capitalized that important word there to stress the emphasis on that word for you.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:28:25 AM

What can your LAK do that neither NXT, nor Bitcoin can?

U could ask the same about Litecoin...

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2014, 11:19:41 AM

It seems to me u confused Nxt PoS algo and Nxt crypto algo. We collected 10 BTC for crypto audit only.

Oh - yes - seems I did - well I would prefer the 5 BTC I pledged to be on PoS analysis by an academic but if 10 BTC is not enough for the crypto audit then I will also be happy for it to go to that instead.

To be clear as long as what we are paying for is "transparent" (i.e. the funding is made publicly known) and the academic is "well known" (has been published in scientifically relevant journals for years and is at least a PhD to do with crypto) then I will go with either audit.

punkrock

hero member

Activity: 808

Merit: 1011

Someone here, how would be able to code a simple mass-sending client? One fix amount, sending to unlimited addresses - one recipient per line.

brooklynbtc

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

AKA jefdiesel

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2014, 10:11:55 AM

Quote from: pinarello on January 23, 2014, 10:10:45 AM

would like to help if I can.

We may need someone to sell 2 pizzas for 10'000 LAK...

I run a wood oven pizza shop in Brooklyn, I can always sell pizza for LAK

Wink

msin

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1004

Quote from: NxtChg on January 23, 2014, 11:24:59 AM

Quote from: CIYAM on January 23, 2014, 11:16:18 AM

... a respected academic to thoroughly review Nxt and write a paper on it...

That's still unclear. What is he gonna do? Go through source code?

We don't have a whitepaper to review yet, right?

And paying $16,000 to a "respected academic" to review your whitepaper just doesn't feel right.

It reduces it to "9 out of 10 dentists recommend" kind of thing... Well, not exactly, but a step in that direction.

And I certainly wouldn't want people to say "oh, and that review they did? They paid $16,000 for it, so...".

Then find someone who will do it for free.

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1403. (Read 2761645 times)