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Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 459. (Read 2761650 times)

sr. member
Activity: 952
Merit: 253
Plus the unclaimed fund wont last that long

I hope you are right, because that would mean that there were a lot of good projects in a small time that got funded.


+1
sr. member
Activity: 952
Merit: 253
Guys, review this - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nxt-instant-transactions-with-guaranteed-confirmation-316104 - plz. I don't want to implement it and then see that the idea is flawed. Would be great if u did it ASAP.

Man I just typed out a huge response as to why this doesn't make any sense and in so doing realized why it makes sense. That is brilliant. Yes it makes perfect sense. Though you dont need a 24 hour limitation. You only need to time limit it to as many blocks as we expect a merchant to need in order to feel secure. 6 maybe 10. 24 hour time lock would allow you to do thinks like buy your own private island with an instantly secure transaction but there is a tradeoff there. is it really worth locking people out of spending their funds for a full 24 hours just so a couple of guys who do HUGE transactions can feel instantly secure. Or is the better trade off to not let people make instantly secure HUGE transactions but also not have to have their nxt locked away for so long.

*edit* note that its still vulnerable against an attempted quintuple spend attack Cheesy.

I agree, its a great idea to hold NXT for instant transactions, I just put a response in the linked thread to see why it can't be done using a reserve balance on the normal account otherwise we have further complexity for the user.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Plus the unclaimed fund wont last that long

I hope you are right, because that would mean that there were a lot of good projects in a small time that got funded.



full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
I would be a lot of money that if crypto goes mainstream, mixers will be made illegal. I base this on imagining what would happen if I started a FIAT mixing service. I'd find myself on a fast train to federal pound me in the ass prison. It's money laundering 101.

I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.

I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.

Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.

You mind telling me how they will ban it?

And if they did 'ban' Nxt because of mixing, how would that be a bad thing? Probably be great publicity...




That's adorable. It's called passing a law and enforcing it. 99% of citizens are pretty much law abiding. Yes crypto can survive as a blackmarket activity practiced by people willing to risk imprisonment, but it will be good only for drugs, guns, child porn and prostitution.

"That's adorable" Oh, okay. You're gonna go there, huh?

You should probably do a little fact checking there bro... 1/4 of the entire WORLD economy is black/grey market. On average, every American citizen commits something like 4 felonies a day. So your 99% figure isn't exactly accurate.

The day the crypto community at large adopts your attitude is the day I'll know this will fail and I and millions of other people will dump back to fiat, leaving you and your libertarian friends alone to play with your toys.

There's the way things oughta be and then there's the way things are.

And I'd really like to see some statistics regarding most citizens committing four felonies per day. That figure is highly specious.

Pfft! How old are you? You do realize things written down arbitrarily on pieces of paper that can change at any moment according to the political whims of whoever is in power, mean NOTHING (except for consequences) to people, right? How do you explain file sharing? Do you know all the laws currently on paper? If not, then gtfo. You're probably committing a felony right now.

And you might not want to insult the libertarian community too much. They're a bigger part of crypto community than you probably realize.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100

FinCEN getting involved in cryptocurrency is a huge blow to Bitcoin in the US and NXT as well.   If NXT implements NXTcash as a truly anonymous transfer service, we can expect FinCen to arrest James as a terrorist.

I am only partially joking.
will I get internet access from jail?

James is a machine Grin

looking forward to first delivery of that machine Grin

bla bla bla
https://github.com/jl777/multigateway

and what exactly do i buy with this multigateway what is its purpose, and its centralized

apperently this is of no value for nxt as price is declined even more. actualy i can do nothing with your code.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
Guys, review this - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nxt-instant-transactions-with-guaranteed-confirmation-316104 - plz. I don't want to implement it and then see that the idea is flawed. Would be great if u did it ASAP.

Man I just typed out a huge response as to why this doesn't make any sense and in so doing realized why it makes sense. That is brilliant. Yes it makes perfect sense. Though you dont need a 24 hour limitation. You only need to time limit it to as many blocks as we expect a merchant to need in order to feel secure. 6 maybe 10. 24 hour time lock would allow you to do thinks like buy your own private island with an instantly secure transaction but there is a tradeoff there. is it really worth locking people out of spending their funds for a full 24 hours just so a couple of guys who do HUGE transactions can feel instantly secure. Or is the better trade off to not let people make instantly secure HUGE transactions but also not have to have their nxt locked away for so long.

*edit* note that its still vulnerable against an attempted quintuple spend attack Cheesy.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Only TL;DR version, coz noone would read a full one.

@ Come-from-Beyond

RFC: Parallel Chains concept

Only TL;DR version, coz noone would read a full one.

Master Chain

Contains only checkpoints of all slave chains. Checkpointing is done once a day and only when 1440 blocks r built on top of the corresponding slave chain. Master chain is never pruned. Growth rate is [32 bytes * numberOfSlaveChain] per day.

Slave Chains

Contains only 1 type of transactions. Different currencies can be implemented as different chains. Forgers can choose what chains to secure. The market balances TPS rate.

Migration plan

Create slave chains that implement all transactions types existing in Nxt. Add a new type for checkpointing. Reject attempts to include non-checkpointing transactions into the master chain.

Side-effects

The Chinese could use a separate currency inside their borders for very high TPS rates. Only checkpointing transactions have to bypass Great Firewall of China. Speculators provide currency exchange service - the business they love to do. NXTs become "tokens", users buy them for fiat to spend for fees, it's similar to prepaid coupons/tickets for provided services.


perhaps are absurd ideas but I throw these


ultra hight TPS = 1000 TPS?
How Tps can drive a raspberry pi node?
if we limit the power of forging 1,000,000 nxt accounts then we have 1,000 nodes maximun and we can do the following with this 1.000 especial nodes;

can distribute the fees if a Raspberry pi node gets forge
can exchange fiat currency
can handle 1000 TPS

one Raspberry pi node to forge must be active.
if a raspberry pi node gets forge shares its fee with other nodes Raspberry Pi grouping. (which are grouped in one of the 1,000 nodes ultra hight TPS)

if blocks are forged 1440 per day means that a Raspberry Pi node with 10 nxt who shares his chance to forge receives fees every day since the probability to forge a grouping of 1,000,000 nxt is approximately 1 day.

therefore

Raspberry Pi node belonging whether to a grouping gets forge the grouping node also forging

the grouping node forges a block ultra hight TPS blok
And the Raspberry Pi node forges a lighter block

what happens if you attack one of the 1,000 nodes?

as the power to forge remains in raspberri pi nodes the network security remains unchanged.
it may happen that momentarily not reached 1,000 TPS

note the criteria to limit the power of forging an account 1,000,000 nxt is due to 1440 blocks are generated in a day and therefore the chance is about one day.

if the number of blocks per day for example increase to 14400 per day the criteria to limit the power of forging change to 100,000 nxt account as tantamount to a chance of about one day.

why one day?
because all accounts that they want to forge if they are always active every day receive fees
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Guys, review this - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nxt-instant-transactions-with-guaranteed-confirmation-316104 - plz. I don't want to implement it and then see that the idea is flawed. Would be great if u did it ASAP.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10

Level-3 multi-bid-ask match test cases,contain 3 test case

3-1
Purpose:    multi-bidorder VS  multi-ask-order, Level 3
Prereq:   secretphrase,n ask orders(n=2,3,10,100)
Test Data:    bid orders (n=2,3,10,100) ,
 total quantity<,=,> askorder.quantity
price = or > askorder.price
Steps:   1.   at same time place multi bid orders,using multi-secretphrase
2.   verify place bid orders are correct or not
3.   verify balances are ok
4.   verify assets are ok
5.   cancel ask orders,bid orders,recheck balance,asset are ok.

3-2
Purpose:    1k+ bidorders match a ask order, Level 3
Prereq:   secretphrase,a ask order
Test Data:    bid orders (n=1000-10.000) ,
 quantity<,=,> askorder.quantity
price = or > askorder.price
Steps:   1.   at same time place multi bid orders,using multi-secretphrase
2.   verify balances are ok
3.   verify assets are ok
4.   cancel ask order,bid orders,recheck balance,asset are ok.

3-3
Purpose:    1k+ askorders match a bid order, Level 3
Prereq:   secretphrase,a bid order
Test Data:    ask orders (n=1000-10.000) ,
 quantity<,=,> askorder.quantity
price = or > askorder.price
Steps:   1.   at same time place multi ask orders,using multi-secretphrase
2.   verify balances are ok
3.   verify assets are ok
4.   cancel ask order,bid orders,recheck balance,asset are ok.




Thank you very much for your test cases!

I don't understand how these test cases work or what the procedure is. Are there instructions available somewhere? I've just gone in and tried to break it and reported any feedback here.
sr. member
Activity: 952
Merit: 253
OK this will upset some people here but IMO hardware/Rpi/etc network for TF@1Ktps isnt way to go.  Certainly not one funded from unclaimed coins.  Sure, if you want to run a pool and want to use that go for it and buy one and operate it.  Personally, I plan on just using a pair of VPSs and I will configure for five nines operation via HA mechanism of polling between the 2 where 2 VPSs are on different providers in different locations..  I have already created a very short vanity account that I plan on using for it.  Hopefully my ROI from forging will pay for it.  It will require lots of traffic but IMO this is the way to go.  Like others Im still not quite sold on the infrastructure committee which is one reason I didnt even run for it.

To do it with owned hardware such as rpi THE RIGHT WAY will require 2 of them in separate locations with power redundancy, etc etc etc.  IMO much simpler to VPS it.

You assume that infrastructure fund simply will buy a load of hardware and run it... this would not be wise,
I have never seen that written down and personally I wouldn't support it.

I too would run VPS anyway and am donating 4 to test net.

Do I see this ending up as owning and running H/W - "No" - never seen it that way.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I would be a lot of money that if crypto goes mainstream, mixers will be made illegal. I base this on imagining what would happen if I started a FIAT mixing service. I'd find myself on a fast train to federal pound me in the ass prison. It's money laundering 101.

I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.

I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.

Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.

You mind telling me how they will ban it?

And if they did 'ban' Nxt because of mixing, how would that be a bad thing? Probably be great publicity...




That's adorable. It's called passing a law and enforcing it. 99% of citizens are pretty much law abiding. Yes crypto can survive as a blackmarket activity practiced by people willing to risk imprisonment, but it will be good only for drugs, guns, child porn and prostitution.

"That's adorable" Oh, okay. You're gonna go there, huh?

You should probably do a little fact checking there bro... 1/4 of the entire WORLD economy is black/grey market. On average, every American citizen commits something like 4 felonies a day. So your 99% figure isn't exactly accurate.

The day the crypto community at large adopts your attitude is the day I'll know this will fail and I and millions of other people will dump back to fiat, leaving you and your libertarian friends alone to play with your toys.

There's the way things oughta be and then there's the way things are.

And I'd really like to see some statistics regarding most citizens committing four felonies per day. That figure is highly specious.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 504
All: Please watch this video about the future of Nxt and comment it (here), thank you very much!

http://youtu.be/RtTWUwRL9mQ

Good video overall...  but I am not sure the music in the background helps much...    Undecided

thank you, the music is just a tribute to social network film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB95KLmpLR4
hero member
Activity: 715
Merit: 500
Realistically, to have stable 1Ktps operation with TF will require nearly 100% cooperation of all forgers.  Or we run into the case when its time for someone to forge who hasnt published their IP address then there will be a throughput drop then.

So It looks like for stable 1Ktps operation we will need ability to lease out effectiveBalances, and set up a forging VPSs out there forging from an account pool master with TF enabled that has 1 NXT, but who has tons of effectiveBalance via accounts that lease out to it.  And we need this setup replicated many times.

Im guessing we will want to hallmark these nodes.  Will the hallmark reflect the aggregate of effectiveBalances?

It becomes more and more clear that the network of nodes performing high-performance transactions cannot be anonymous anymore.

This is why we need balance leasing. The accounts stay anonymous but share there power with public nodes. If a node turns out to be malicious, accounts pull off their power.

This is also what CfB meant as he said: 'the good guys conspire'. Good guys (majority in terms of balance) support those nodes they trust aka which have done the least damage.

that make sense
sr. member
Activity: 952
Merit: 253

No. This committee is only going to exist for months. NXT is supposed to be decentralized, not have a "official committee" for years to come. Plus the unclaimed fund wont last that long

Hmmm I hadn't thought of that one - it is quite simple - when the coins run out the committees shutdown...
Therefore the only reason people will do this is to spend the unclaimed coins and then stop...

So by then NXT is strong enough to have a life of its own...
So No one needs to represent it to the outside world... at conferences etc at their own cost.
If someone does represent NXT as an individual because they decide to this will still work...
Development will be finished... No more investment in the core needed.
Individuals/Businesses can just take the public code, change it, get it on lots of nodes and then it becomes the standard.
Individuals/Businesses will individually decide to run reliable nodes, able to forge at multiple hundred TPS.

Individuals/Businesses will be able to access NXT simply and easily and it will be so prominent its an obvious thing for them to do.

NXT will continue to achieve growth by the decentralised actions of individuals doing their own thing but the sum of these actions.

I would like to mention NXT itself is decentralised, the community of people that support NXT have an opportunity to decide if they are 'decentralised' - not sure what that means but to decide how they want to organise - if its not committees then we still need to be organised - this is an important point you have helped to raise because you are right the committees are not forever!
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Yes I am from the U.S and money laundering is taken seriously by our government, like it or not. The U.S is still the world's largest economy for at least the next five to ten years after that it will be China, who is also known to be a little fussy about that sort of thing.

Actually money laundering is not something the Chinese government cares about at all - you should look into the "stored value cards" underground business to get just an inkling about how things work here.

Cheesy


Admittedly I speak in complete ignorance when it comes to China.

Still a moot point as far as I'm concerned as 1. I am in the US and 2. U.S is the largest economy and will be 2nd largest once China leads.
The winning formula is going to involve the U.S. like it or not. Ideology & Morality are irrelevant when it comes to finance.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
OK this will upset some people here but IMO hardware/Rpi/etc network for TF@1Ktps isnt way to go.  Certainly not one funded from unclaimed coins.  Sure, if you want to run a pool and want to use that go for it and buy one and operate it.  Personally, I plan on just using a pair of VPSs and I will configure for five nines operation via HA mechanism of polling between the 2 where 2 VPSs are on different providers in different locations..  I have already created a very short vanity account that I plan on using for it.  Hopefully my ROI from forging will pay for it.  It will require lots of traffic but IMO this is the way to go.  Like others Im still not quite sold on the infrastructure committee which is one reason I didnt even run for it.

To do it with owned hardware such as rpi THE RIGHT WAY will require 2 of them in separate locations with power redundancy, etc etc etc.  IMO much simpler to VPS it.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
Realistically, to have stable 1Ktps operation with TF will require nearly 100% cooperation of all forgers.  Or we run into the case when its time for someone to forge who hasnt published their IP address then there will be a throughput drop then.

So It looks like for stable 1Ktps operation we will need ability to lease out effectiveBalances, and set up a forging VPSs out there forging from an account pool master with TF enabled that has 1 NXT, but who has tons of effectiveBalance via accounts that lease out to it.  And we need this setup replicated many times.

Im guessing we will want to hallmark these nodes.  Will the hallmark reflect the aggregate of effectiveBalances?

It becomes more and more clear that the network of nodes performing high-performance transactions cannot be anonymous anymore.

This is why we need balance leasing. The accounts stay anonymous but share there power with public nodes. If a node turns out to be malicious, accounts pull off their power.

This is also what CfB meant as he said: 'the good guys conspire'. Good guys (majority in terms of balance) support those nodes they trust aka which have done the least damage.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
I would be a lot of money that if crypto goes mainstream, mixers will be made illegal. I base this on imagining what would happen if I started a FIAT mixing service. I'd find myself on a fast train to federal pound me in the ass prison. It's money laundering 101.

I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.

I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.

Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.

You mind telling me how they will ban it?

And if they did 'ban' Nxt because of mixing, how would that be a bad thing? Probably be great publicity...


That's adorable. It's called passing a law and enforcing it. 99% of citizens are pretty much law abiding. Yes crypto can survive as a blackmarket activity practiced by people willing to risk imprisonment, but it will be good only for drugs, guns, child porn and prostitution.

"That's adorable" Oh, okay. You're gonna go there, huh?

You should probably do a little fact checking there bro... 1/4 of the entire WORLD economy is black/grey market. On average, every American citizen commits something like 4 felonies a day. So your 99% figure isn't exactly accurate.

If zerocoin/mixing is only an option for those who want to use it and do not become the standard of nxt core, then i see no problem. It would be the best of the two world. I just hope that  zerocoin/mixing  will simply be a layer on top of nxt for which user will have the choice to use it or not. Legal business will then simply not use the zerocoin/mixing functions.


+1 Yeah, that's the way I envisioned it.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Coinpayments is closing down: https://www.coinpayments.net

What was this site for?
Processing bitcoin payments. USA's FinCen says they have authority over bitcoin and any company that touches it is a money transmitter. Now bitcoin is as troublesome as fiat in America. Isnt America nice

So, now you need at least $5 million to operation in USA, before you can even start. maybe you can choose a few states to lower the compliance cost, but every state has their own rules, add the federal stuff on top and the war on bitcoin escalates.

James

Do you have a source for this? I'd like to read up.

http://www.fincen.gov/

Read especially:

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/testimony/html/20140220.html

FinCEN getting involved in cryptocurrency is a huge blow to Bitcoin in the US and NXT as well.   If NXT implements NXTcash as a truly anonymous transfer service, we can expect FinCen to arrest James as a terrorist.

I am only partially joking.
will I get internet access from jail?

Internet no, a huuuuge asshole yes.


Wink
since when is writing software a crime anyway? What has the world become??

Americans writing custom cryptographic code that gets shared with non-Americans are breaking the law under the Code of Federal Regulations Title 15 chapter VII, subchapter C, also known as Export Administration Regulations (EAR),  administered and enforced by the Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS).

This almost certainly would include totally anonymous payment transaction software that is crypto signed.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_in_the_United_States


I didnt write the crypto code, Daniel Bernstein did http://nacl.cr.yp.to/box.html
what happened to freedom of speech? Since I am a machine, C code IS my speech


Good argument for the supreme court. Counter-argument: just as you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded movie theater, or incite riots, free speech is trumped when said speech endangers others. If crypto code enables enemies of the state, the public is endangered, therefore crypto-code is not free speech worthy of protections.

Tto be clear,  I am playing Devil's Advocate..I believe freedom wants to be free like water wants to seek it's own level.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500

Level-3 multi-bid-ask match test cases,contain 3 test case

3-1
Purpose:    multi-bidorder VS  multi-ask-order, Level 3
Prereq:   secretphrase,n ask orders(n=2,3,10,100)
Test Data:    bid orders (n=2,3,10,100) ,
 total quantity<,=,> askorder.quantity
price = or > askorder.price
Steps:   1.   at same time place multi bid orders,using multi-secretphrase
2.   verify place bid orders are correct or not
3.   verify balances are ok
4.   verify assets are ok
5.   cancel ask orders,bid orders,recheck balance,asset are ok.

3-2
Purpose:    1k+ bidorders match a ask order, Level 3
Prereq:   secretphrase,a ask order
Test Data:    bid orders (n=1000-10.000) ,
 quantity<,=,> askorder.quantity
price = or > askorder.price
Steps:   1.   at same time place multi bid orders,using multi-secretphrase
2.   verify balances are ok
3.   verify assets are ok
4.   cancel ask order,bid orders,recheck balance,asset are ok.

3-3
Purpose:    1k+ askorders match a bid order, Level 3
Prereq:   secretphrase,a bid order
Test Data:    ask orders (n=1000-10.000) ,
 quantity<,=,> askorder.quantity
price = or > askorder.price
Steps:   1.   at same time place multi ask orders,using multi-secretphrase
2.   verify balances are ok
3.   verify assets are ok
4.   cancel ask order,bid orders,recheck balance,asset are ok.




Thank you very much for your test cases!
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