Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 460. (Read 2761645 times)
in my opinion you are going all ways possible ,maybe better just decide which way is more important
I would be a lot of money that if crypto goes mainstream, mixers will be made illegal. I base this on imagining what would happen if I started a FIAT mixing service. I'd find myself on a fast train to federal pound me in the ass prison. It's money laundering 101.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
You mind telling me how they will ban it?
And if they did 'ban' Nxt because of mixing, how would that be a bad thing? Probably be great publicity...
That's adorable. It's called passing a law and enforcing it. 99% of citizens are pretty much law abiding. Yes crypto can survive as a blackmarket activity practiced by people willing to risk imprisonment, but it will be good only for drugs, guns, child porn and prostitution.
"That's adorable" Oh, okay. You're gonna go there, huh?
You should probably do a little fact checking there bro... 1/4 of the entire WORLD economy is black/grey market. On average, every American citizen commits something like 4 felonies a day. So your 99% figure isn't exactly accurate.
If zerocoin/mixing is only an option for those who want to use it and do not become the standard of nxt core, then i see no problem. It would be the best of the two world. I just hope that zerocoin/mixing will simply be a layer on top of nxt for which user will have the choice to use it or not. Legal business will then simply not use the zerocoin/mixing functions.
1way exchange to fiat and zero coin or 2way for marketing and transaction speed for retailers
I would be a lot of money that if crypto goes mainstream, mixers will be made illegal. I base this on imagining what would happen if I started a FIAT mixing service. I'd find myself on a fast train to federal pound me in the ass prison. It's money laundering 101.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
You mind telling me how they will ban it?
And if they did 'ban' Nxt because of mixing, how would that be a bad thing? Probably be great publicity...
That's adorable. It's called passing a law and enforcing it. 99% of citizens are pretty much law abiding. Yes crypto can survive as a blackmarket activity practiced by people willing to risk imprisonment, but it will be good only for drugs, guns, child porn and prostitution.
"That's adorable" Oh, okay. You're gonna go there, huh?
You should probably do a little fact checking there bro... 1/4 of the entire WORLD economy is black/grey market. On average, every American citizen commits something like 4 felonies a day. So your 99% figure isn't exactly accurate.
Realistically, to have stable 1Ktps operation with TF will require nearly 100% cooperation of all forgers. Or we run into the case when its time for someone to forge who hasnt published their IP address then there will be a throughput drop then.
So It looks like for stable 1Ktps operation we will need ability to lease out effectiveBalances, and set up a forging VPSs out there forging from an account pool master with TF enabled that has 1 NXT, but who has tons of effectiveBalance via accounts that lease out to it. And we need this setup replicated many times.
Im guessing we will want to hallmark these nodes. Will the hallmark reflect the aggregate of effectiveBalances?
So It looks like for stable 1Ktps operation we will need ability to lease out effectiveBalances, and set up a forging VPSs out there forging from an account pool master with TF enabled that has 1 NXT, but who has tons of effectiveBalance via accounts that lease out to it. And we need this setup replicated many times.
Im guessing we will want to hallmark these nodes. Will the hallmark reflect the aggregate of effectiveBalances?
I would be a lot of money that if crypto goes mainstream, mixers will be made illegal. I base this on imagining what would happen if I started a FIAT mixing service. I'd find myself on a fast train to federal pound me in the ass prison. It's money laundering 101.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
You mind telling me how they will ban it?
And if they did 'ban' Nxt because of mixing, how would that be a bad thing? Probably be great publicity...
That's adorable. It's called passing a law and enforcing it. 99% of citizens are pretty much law abiding. Yes crypto can survive as a blackmarket activity practiced by people willing to risk imprisonment, but it will be good only for drugs, guns, child porn and prostitution.
If you want to be a niche product go for it... we don't need a thousand TPS or any infrastructure a few nodes with mixing will probably do it ...
if you want volume you need B2C / C2B transactions i.e. between customers and businesses, legitimate businesses have to comply with AML laws whether they are in the finance industry or not.
I would be a lot of money that if crypto goes mainstream, mixers will be made illegal. I base this on imagining what would happen if I started a FIAT mixing service. I'd find myself on a fast train to federal pound me in the ass prison. It's money laundering 101.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
You mind telling me how they will ban it?
And if they did 'ban' Nxt because of mixing, how would that be a bad thing? Probably be great publicity...
That's adorable. It's called passing a law and enforcing it. 99% of citizens are pretty much law abiding. Yes crypto can survive as a blackmarket activity practiced by people willing to risk imprisonment, but it will be good only for drugs, guns, child porn and prostitution.
Found an interesting link. Nxt community became a victim of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringelmann_effect, IMHO.
if nxt will do an exchange alt currencies to fiat and zerocoin they will have trouble for mass adoption for legal businieses, because governments could ban legal businises for using nxt as payment system (visa, mastercard)
I would be a lot of money that if crypto goes mainstream, mixers will be made illegal. I base this on imagining what would happen if I started a FIAT mixing service. I'd find myself on a fast train to federal pound me in the ass prison. It's money laundering 101.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
I do not believe anonymity should be built into any protocol because of this. It should be a layer on top that can be removed or altered for compliance, leaving the network intact.
I don't believe complete anonymity is necessary for crypto. In fact it's the best way to get it banned completely. As long as average users could only be tracked through heavy forensics by authorized officials examining bank records and following a trail, I think crypto provides plenty enough anonymity.
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
You mind telling me how they will ban it?
And if they did 'ban' Nxt because of mixing, how would that be a bad thing? Probably be great publicity...
They could ban it from being accepted for trade, Both for exchanged fiat and for products or services. If You can't exchange it, it becomes worthless. Brian is right, in my opinion. There is going to have to be a level in the community that operates in full view. This will be a needed mode of business, not just for legal reasons. It will help to make people more trusting in using cryptos if there are options for conducting transactions that don't put off the shady vibe of a craigslist transaction.
It's going to come down to what people want more. Do they want a currency that is going to comply with a bunch of regulations, or do they want a currency that is going to provide stuff like anonymity and other free market tools. I don't know exactly what's going to happen as far as regulations go, because it seems like it will be impossible with all the different arbitrary laws all over the world. I think cryptos in general are going to open up a HUGE can of worms for the entire world. I'm excited about it.
So it is about TPS (or TPM).
Some random thoughts:
Should we aim high and make TPS one of the big distinction form other crypto currencies? Are we realistic with such a high TPS - do we really need it? It could be a VISA alternative. Do we get there? Maybe only if great things are made on top of Nxt the next months. Will there be great things on top of Nxt if we are called the next ripple, which is mostly a negative conjunction in the crypto world? Do we ever get there when we cannot market the super-decentralized-idea, raspberryPis and nice things? Are we the business solution of crypto currencies? Do businesses need cryptos? The business world is still very hesitated in regards to crypto currencies - if we fail in the business world in the next month and decided today to go this route, Nxt would be dead? How realistic is it to establish Nxt big in the business world? Are there other possibilities with ultra hight TPS, if not business related? Can we aim for both worlds? Maybe 200 TPS? (Could parallel blockchains help?) Can we aim high with all the other stuff without hight TPS?
How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions? What did I forgot?
I want a big discussion about this.
Some random thoughts:
Should we aim high and make TPS one of the big distinction form other crypto currencies? Are we realistic with such a high TPS - do we really need it? It could be a VISA alternative. Do we get there? Maybe only if great things are made on top of Nxt the next months. Will there be great things on top of Nxt if we are called the next ripple, which is mostly a negative conjunction in the crypto world? Do we ever get there when we cannot market the super-decentralized-idea, raspberryPis and nice things? Are we the business solution of crypto currencies? Do businesses need cryptos? The business world is still very hesitated in regards to crypto currencies - if we fail in the business world in the next month and decided today to go this route, Nxt would be dead? How realistic is it to establish Nxt big in the business world? Are there other possibilities with ultra hight TPS, if not business related? Can we aim for both worlds? Maybe 200 TPS? (Could parallel blockchains help?) Can we aim high with all the other stuff without hight TPS?
How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions? What did I forgot?
I want a big discussion about this.
The system that provides the fastest transactions securely will surpass Bitcoin as the number once currency. TF and high TPS is the #1 reason for the recent surge in interest in NXT in my opinion. In fact many people think it's already implemented and are out there talking around 'the water cooler' about this. The other factor will be easy FIAT conversion, which means being somewhat friendly to the banking system. Ease of use for regular people is also very very important. Ripple is beating NXT already in all of these areas. So to beat ripple and the others NXT needs to win on these fronts AND be more decentralized and free-standing.
The real question is if the goal is for NXT to be the currency that takes Bitcoin's place, or if it's happy as a 2nd or 3rd tier system that co-exists with other Alt currencies and becomes known as merely a decentralized platform to trade your fake money for different fake money that no one wants or needs or can use except for speculation. Once the current coin boom ends there will probably be a few cryptos that survive and interest in exchanges will die down. People may exchange real world assets with the AE but it's really hard to get people to change old habits. And unless AE gets accepted by the banking system AND the government, centralized exchanges will still be needed for FIAT conversion. The one way around that problem is to be so awesome as a form of currency that easy conversion to FIAT is not needed. That means popular usage amongst buyers, suppliers and consumers. Then everyone can HODL their NXT and not worry about converting. Volatility/Stability is also an issue here, where BTC is obviously lacking.
There's a VERY limited amount of people who dream about issuing their own currency or starting an IPO or even investing in one, but EVERYBODY needs to spend money and EVERYBODY would consider using an alternative that works easier and better than credit and debit cards and also protects against identity theft. EVERYONE also needs a way to perform fast, secure MICRO-TRANSACTIONS on the internet. Being able to quickly send .25 can potentially solve music and movie piracy, revive the online newspapers and allow people to monetize internet content.
Once these important fronts are won, then people might start looking more closely at the other features, such as AE, Aliasing, etc. But if no one is using NXT for the everyday stuff, no one may discover them or they will discover them on another platform like Ripple, Ethereum, EMunie etc. It's a very darwinian thing going on right now. The fittest will survive.
My two cents, or should I say .5 NXT
I don't know. It depends on why people want a fast transaction. If the sole reason is for point of purchase sales slow transaction speed of the network could potentially be overcome be other means. I think that the overall structure of NXT allows for more responsiveness and flexibility of use, and that fact will allow for people to identify more innovative ways to solve problems. NXT has more uses than Bitcoin does. This is what we have to make people aware of. This is the strength of NXT, and should be the focal selling point.
Ripple (which puts these selling points first as well) has been around longer than Bitcoin or at least nearly as long I believe. Which one is getting more attention? It's the one that is known for it's potential to revolutionize remittance and payments. It's the sexiest feature and I believe it is downplayed at our peril.
Yes I am from the U.S and money laundering is taken seriously by our government, like it or not. The U.S is still the world's largest economy for at least the next five to ten years after that it will be China, who is also known to be a little fussy about that sort of thing.
Actually money laundering is not something the Chinese government cares about at all - you should look into the "stored value cards" underground business to get just an inkling about how things work here.
Sorry guys - another one from me.... I circulated this to the Infrastructure guys ... Ricky has correctly identified this 'unfinished business' should be commented on by the community and the committees should then coordinate, ratify and publish hopefully a commonly agreed charter.
This below is my personal view at the moment and should not be taken as agreed or representative of any committee
Ian
This below is my personal view at the moment and should not be taken as agreed or representative of any committee
Ian
Some thoughts on committee basics which don't seem to have covered and perhaps can be aligned across all... I don't remember any of this being stated but below is kind of my expectations - what do you think?
Its not inf stuff but general - how do we demonstrate that we are doing this well and honestly.
Not sure if its been stated 'tenure' - 1 year - all committees? - re-election all at same time with a non-candidate election officer every 12 months.
Election officer for committee should be known 3 months before election is due to take place and start candidacy process.
If a committee member stands down or is inactive (to be agreed) - invite 6th candidate from previous vote to join.
If committee has less than 6 months to election then it can run with 4 members, committee is not quorate with less than 4 members.
No funds to be paid directly to committee members for committee work.
For projects - members can apply/be part of an application but cannot vote on own project or a project they are part of, whether as investor or contributor.
Removal of a committee member requires N-1 votes - i.e. unanimous by all remaining members with a public statement of why.
Its not inf stuff but general - how do we demonstrate that we are doing this well and honestly.
Not sure if its been stated 'tenure' - 1 year - all committees? - re-election all at same time with a non-candidate election officer every 12 months.
Election officer for committee should be known 3 months before election is due to take place and start candidacy process.
If a committee member stands down or is inactive (to be agreed) - invite 6th candidate from previous vote to join.
If committee has less than 6 months to election then it can run with 4 members, committee is not quorate with less than 4 members.
No funds to be paid directly to committee members for committee work.
For projects - members can apply/be part of an application but cannot vote on own project or a project they are part of, whether as investor or contributor.
Removal of a committee member requires N-1 votes - i.e. unanimous by all remaining members with a public statement of why.
No. This committee is only going to exist for months. NXT is supposed to be decentralized, not have a "official committee" for years to come. Plus the unclaimed fund wont last that long
Law enforcement do need certain tools for tracking terrorists and criminals. There needs to be sensible laws put in place for all of this.
You know even the term "money laundering" would make zero sense to someone from the 19th century (and money has been around for thousands of years).
Perhaps you are from the US?
Many other countries in the world don't "give a fuck" about money laundering (to them money is not "dirty or clean" it is just "money").
And what is considered criminal in one country is not in another (as for "terrorists" you do know that Nelson Mandella was labelled as that for many years and the US *agreed*).
If the US wants to become the "land of big brother" that is up to them - but I am not interested in being a part of that.
Yes I am from the U.S and money laundering is taken seriously by our government, like it or not. The U.S is still the world's largest economy for at least the next five to ten years after that it will be China, who is also known to be a little fussy about that sort of thing. If NXT dismisses the US and China and Ripple, Ethreuum and others do not, where does that leave NXT but as some weird exotic European thing?
... the community/early adopters should find a way to cover his (and the other core devs) expenses.
My personal opinion is that 1/3 of unclaimed funds should go for audit/whitepaper, 1/3 for core devs and 1/3 for marketing.
- agree 100% ! No infrastructure committee needed.My personal opinion is that 1/3 of unclaimed funds should go for audit/whitepaper, 1/3 for core devs and 1/3 for marketing.
If you have no reliable network then you have no product.
At the moment the NXT network is unknown in capacity and performance.
Decentralisation is not a magic bullet guaranteeing performance.
People who commit to NXT in volume expect to know about the performance and capacity of what they are going to use.
Without this you will still get the unwary/foolish, but when they become aware & wise you will get a lot of bad publicity.
Without infrastructure what you will end up with is a prototype with lots of features and some funky websites...
Don't get me wrong we need the features and the marketing but the implementation needs to be industrialised and hardened.
Do you think that bitcoin is reliant on small miners everywhere with the amount of money it transacts? ... those miners are now an annoyance and big money has already gone into infrastructure to safeguard the mining of that coin to ensure transactions progress.
With NXT if we get it right we can still have a fast, reliant, resilient network for transactions AND people getting a return on their stakes.
+1000000
There is no way that robust industrial grade network will be formed by small miners. Only way to go is to have certain numer of supernodes...
Average users can form network for sharing movies and songs, but infrastructure for serious-real-world business..??
Processing bitcoin payments. USA's FinCen says they have authority over bitcoin and any company that touches it is a money transmitter. Now bitcoin is as troublesome as fiat in America. Isnt America nice
So, now you need at least $5 million to operation in USA, before you can even start. maybe you can choose a few states to lower the compliance cost, but every state has their own rules, add the federal stuff on top and the war on bitcoin escalates.
James
So, now you need at least $5 million to operation in USA, before you can even start. maybe you can choose a few states to lower the compliance cost, but every state has their own rules, add the federal stuff on top and the war on bitcoin escalates.
James
Do you have a source for this? I'd like to read up.
http://www.fincen.gov/
Read especially:
http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/testimony/html/20140220.html
FinCEN getting involved in cryptocurrency is a huge blow to Bitcoin in the US and NXT as well. If NXT implements NXTcash as a truly anonymous transfer service, we can expect FinCen to arrest James as a terrorist.
I am only partially joking.
Internet no, a huuuuge asshole yes.
Americans writing custom cryptographic code that gets shared with non-Americans are breaking the law under the Code of Federal Regulations Title 15 chapter VII, subchapter C, also known as Export Administration Regulations (EAR), administered and enforced by the Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS).
This almost certainly would include totally anonymous payment transaction software that is crypto signed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_in_the_United_States
what happened to freedom of speech? Since I am a machine, C code IS my speech
Is the issue all about the speed of tx? If we want higher speed we have to use less nodes or hubs with better equipments. If we want lower speed we can have more small nodes running with cheaper equipments. How about security? Which one has more security for the network?
This could be more interesting when we consider the "parallel chains" idea.
Perhaps we can "have our cake and eat it to" by having say an NHS (NXT high speed) parallel chain that is only being forged by powerful hubs capable of handling huge amounts of TPM whilst the main part of the network could be forging standard NXT on low-grade hardware.
This is starting to get a little exciting!
Sorry guys - another one from me.... I circulated this to the Infrastructure guys ... Ricky has correctly identified this 'unfinished business' should be commented on by the community and the committees should then coordinate, ratify and publish hopefully a commonly agreed charter.
This below is my personal view at the moment and should not be taken as agreed or representative of any committee
Ian
This below is my personal view at the moment and should not be taken as agreed or representative of any committee
Ian
Some thoughts on committee basics which don't seem to have covered and perhaps can be aligned across all... I don't remember any of this being stated but below is kind of my expectations - what do you think?
Its not inf stuff but general - how do we demonstrate that we are doing this well and honestly.
Not sure if its been stated 'tenure' - 1 year - all committees? - re-election all at same time with a non-candidate election officer every 12 months.
Election officer for committee should be known 3 months before election is due to take place and start candidacy process.
If a committee member stands down or is inactive (to be agreed) - invite 6th candidate from previous vote to join.
If committee has less than 6 months to election then it can run with 4 members, committee is not quorate with less than 4 members.
No funds to be paid directly to committee members for committee work.
For projects - members can apply/be part of an application but cannot vote on own project or a project they are part of, whether as investor or contributor.
Removal of a committee member requires N-1 votes - i.e. unanimous by all remaining members with a public statement of why.
Its not inf stuff but general - how do we demonstrate that we are doing this well and honestly.
Not sure if its been stated 'tenure' - 1 year - all committees? - re-election all at same time with a non-candidate election officer every 12 months.
Election officer for committee should be known 3 months before election is due to take place and start candidacy process.
If a committee member stands down or is inactive (to be agreed) - invite 6th candidate from previous vote to join.
If committee has less than 6 months to election then it can run with 4 members, committee is not quorate with less than 4 members.
No funds to be paid directly to committee members for committee work.
For projects - members can apply/be part of an application but cannot vote on own project or a project they are part of, whether as investor or contributor.
Removal of a committee member requires N-1 votes - i.e. unanimous by all remaining members with a public statement of why.
Is there a post somewhere of committee election results? Could someone provide a link? Thanks.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5578891
Is there a post somewhere of committee election results? Could someone provide a link? Thanks.
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