ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 779.

JSRAW

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Quote from: LittleBitFunny on December 31, 2022, 02:23:51 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 31, 2022, 10:22:12 AM

Finance or no finance.

I believe Pakistani White ball cricket is in safe hands. They have an abundance of resources in fast bowling so no matter what, they will bring any random kid and he'll do wonders in the white ball, after a couple of years someone else will replace him and this cycle will go on due to the vast raw fast bowling pool.

The problem will come in Test cricket only.

Yes, I agree with you. There is a problem with test cricket, which is that you need a certain amount of skills in order to be able to execute the plans that you have made. In spite of that, if you are giving this job to a young player, he is most likely not experienced enough to be able to put the plan into effect as you planned.

But in one-day internationals or T20 cricket, that is not necessary, because the batsman is most likely to play shots anyway. It is true that test cricket is a form of cricket where the margin for error is really low. And experience is much needed in test cricket.

Young local bowler has a better chance to outbowl overseas bowler (spin or pace) but only if you are bold enough to provide them with better conditions to bowl.

I bet if PCB had the guts to create fast pitches which they already do in domestic and against Bangbros etc then these last 3 series would've been very competitive.

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Quote from: Marvell1 on December 31, 2022, 04:48:47 AM

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The main reason why Pakistani players are not getting the money that they probably should be is because of the economical situation of Pakistan, not being great. And Pakistan not hosting international cricket in their own country is also a reason for Pakistani players not being highly rated or paid. That is my assumption.

New Zealand is currently touring Pakistan but the stadiums are empty even in the final two days of the match which is not that great. I expected to see some crowd but that was not the case.

Quote from: Marvell1 on December 31, 2022, 01:38:29 PM

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The biggest problem is that Pakistan cricket is not currently having a good relationship with the Indian cricket board and that also goes for the politics of both countries as well. And we all know that this has been a reason for the ICC not taking good care of Pakistan. And all the other cricket boards also respect that Indian cricket board as far as I think.

BCCI is the biggest cash cow and there is nothing that the ICC will be doing to upset them for now and the problem with India and Pakistan is political and hence they are not interfering.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 31, 2022, 10:22:12 AM

Finance or no finance.

I believe Pakistani White ball cricket is in safe hands. They have an abundance of resources in fast bowling so no matter what, they will bring any random kid and he'll do wonders in the white ball, after a couple of years someone else will replace him and this cycle will go on due to the vast raw fast bowling pool.

The problem will come in Test cricket only.

Here I completely agreed with you because now white ball game is very fast and this never need skills and quality like we need in test format which is surely helpful for these wonder kids which arrived at screen for the short time and then suddenly disappear after giving their best in few years which is good cycle for the Pakistan and their system but in red ball most chances they have no chance like this in long run right now we have Pakistani, and Afghani players mostly involved in franchise leagues with Afghani can go in any event and Pakistanis are not allowed in IPL, so things are good for few players as they perform good for few years and then have their skills into few leagues which give them good money for having average life in any country or if they want to live in Pakistan.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 31, 2022, 10:22:12 AM

Finance or no finance.

I believe Pakistani White ball cricket is in safe hands. They have an abundance of resources in fast bowling so no matter what, they will bring any random kid and he'll do wonders in the white ball, after a couple of years someone else will replace him and this cycle will go on due to the vast raw fast bowling pool.

The problem will come in Test cricket only.

Yes, I agree with you. There is a problem with test cricket, which is that you need a certain amount of skills in order to be able to execute the plans that you have made. In spite of that, if you are giving this job to a young player, he is most likely not experienced enough to be able to put the plan into effect as you planned.

But in one-day internationals or T20 cricket, that is not necessary, because the batsman is most likely to play shots anyway. It is true that test cricket is a form of cricket where the margin for error is really low. And experience is much needed in test cricket.

Marvell1

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Quote from: BobK71 on December 31, 2022, 07:58:59 AM

Quote from: Marvell1 on December 31, 2022, 04:48:47 AM

The main reason why Pakistani players are not getting the money that they probably should be is because of the economical situation of Pakistan, not being great. And Pakistan not hosting international cricket in their own country is also a reason for Pakistani players not being highly rated or paid. That is my assumption.

Yes, when the financial condition of a country deteriorates, every organization in that country has to go through financial deficit. Cricket is not out of it. Moreover, when they have to abstain from international matches in their own field for a long time, it is natural that their board will also be financially weak. But I believe if they can create a natural environment like before then their board will be strong as well as the financial development of the players will be achieved.

The biggest problem is that Pakistan cricket is not currently having a good relationship with the Indian cricket board and that also goes for the politics of both countries as well. And we all know that this has been a reason for the ICC not taking good care of Pakistan. And all the other cricket boards also respect that Indian cricket board as far as I think. They also did not want to have any kind of problems with the Indian Cricket board. I think that’s why they also did not visit Pakistan for a series. But times have changed. Actually, it has been a long time, but the mindset of people in power, both in India and Pakistan has not changed at all. That is the reason why we had all the recent drama by Jay Shah.

Anyway, I think Pakistan cricket is improving. Slowly, but surely it is improving.

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Quote from: Marvell1 on December 30, 2022, 03:13:38 PM

Players are not very interested in playing for Pakistan because we have seen that a lot of great players did not get even the chance to play for Pakistan. When a player like Imran Tahir doesn’t get the chance to play for Pakistan, you know that there is something wrong with the selection panel. I agree that most Pakistanis are based on Pakistan itself. But the situation in Pakistan has hardly improved and it is always better for the players to play for other countries. And I don't see why players should still be very passionate about playing for Pakistan if the situation is not going to improve. I know they are getting paid decent salaries. But only salaries are not going to be enough for the improvement of Pakistan cricket.

I disagreed with you here because you are not aware of Pakistan domestic system and issues just because of this you are talking like this with I know many players still love to play even in domestic leagues of Pakistan but sadly nepotism and few other restrictions never help them for having this opportunity, so they try to take their other options which are also helpful for few but not for the all like we are talking about Imran Tahir and few others which are currently settled in England and South Africa which are giving them good opportunity for their talent and skills but here in Pakistan these things are not enough with these you must have some links for having your chance into top level which is the worst case.

Now, change in PCB is again encouraging things like these because most of the new board members having not good experience of management they are here just because of their links and political base which is also another big set back like now today we have announcement PJL is also scrapped, and many other changes are also coming as well.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 31, 2022, 10:22:12 AM

Finance or no finance.

I believe Pakistani White ball cricket is in safe hands. They have an abundance of resources in fast bowling so no matter what, they will bring any random kid and he'll do wonders in the white ball, after a couple of years someone else will replace him and this cycle will go on due to the vast raw fast bowling pool.

The problem will come in Test cricket only.

Importance to test cricket will cause improvements among the players. As said someone keeps replacing the white ball bowling, but the same isn't working out with test cricket. To make the board financially strong takes time, until then it is the players who need to give the best to the nation. Even now Pakistan team isn't that worse with test cricket, because the losses weren't that bad.

JSRAW

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Finance or no finance.

I believe Pakistani White ball cricket is in safe hands. They have an abundance of resources in fast bowling so no matter what, they will bring any random kid and he'll do wonders in the white ball, after a couple of years someone else will replace him and this cycle will go on due to the vast raw fast bowling pool.

The problem will come in Test cricket only.

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Quote from: Marvell1 on December 31, 2022, 04:48:47 AM

The main reason why Pakistani players are not getting the money that they probably should be is because of the economical situation of Pakistan, not being great. And Pakistan not hosting international cricket in their own country is also a reason for Pakistani players not being highly rated or paid. That is my assumption.

Yes, when the financial condition of a country deteriorates, every organization in that country has to go through financial deficit. Cricket is not out of it. Moreover, when they have to abstain from international matches in their own field for a long time, it is natural that their board will also be financially weak. But I believe if they can create a natural environment like before then their board will be strong as well as the financial development of the players will be achieved.

Marvell1

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Quote from: ThemePen on December 30, 2022, 09:08:12 PM

Quote from: Marvell1 on December 30, 2022, 03:13:38 PM

Players are not very interested in playing for Pakistan because we have seen that a lot of great players did not get even the chance to play for Pakistan. When a player like Imran Tahir doesn’t get the chance to play for Pakistan, you know that there is something wrong with the selection panel. I agree that most Pakistanis are based on Pakistan itself. But the situation in Pakistan has hardly improved and it is always better for the players to play for other countries. And I don't see why players should still be very passionate about playing for Pakistan if the situation is not going to improve. I know they are getting paid decent salaries. But only salaries are not going to be enough for the improvement of Pakistan cricket.

We got a new Chief Selector Shahid Afridi. Everyone knows who is he? And his role in the Pakistan cricket. And we hope he will become a good selector and in his monitoring I hope we will see more improvement in the Pakistan's team. And best players will get a chance to play in the team and will hold their positions in the team.

It is actually very good news for Pakistan cricket. Shahid Afridi is someone who has always stood firm for truth. At least now we know that there can be genuine mistakes made, but there is not going to be any nepotism or favoritism going on. At least not on Shahid Afridi’s watch.

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 30, 2022, 09:59:17 PM

Some of the players are receiving decent salaries and in recent times the wages have gone up. But it's nowhere close to what the pig-4 players are getting. Inability to participate in the IPL is definitely one of the main handicaps. Tahir was able to play in the IPL because of his South African citizenship. The PSL has limited potential, because of prevailing laws in Pakistan which limits the cable TV audience and advertising. There is not much difference in GDP per capita between Pakistan and India, but the revenues for PCB are only around 1-2% of that of the BCCI.

The main reason why Pakistani players are not getting the money that they probably should be is because of the economical situation of Pakistan, not being great. And Pakistan not hosting international cricket in their own country is also a reason for Pakistani players not being highly rated or paid. That is my assumption.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 30, 2022, 09:59:17 PM

Quote from: Marvell1 on December 30, 2022, 03:13:38 PM

Players are not very interested in playing for Pakistan because we have seen that a lot of great players did not get even the chance to play for Pakistan. When a player like Imran Tahir doesn’t get the chance to play for Pakistan, you know that there is something wrong with the selection panel. I agree that most Pakistanis are based on Pakistan itself. But the situation in Pakistan has hardly improved and it is always better for the players to play for other countries. And I don't see why players should still be very passionate about playing for Pakistan if the situation is not going to improve. I know they are getting paid decent salaries. But only salaries are not going to be enough for the improvement of Pakistan cricket.

Some of the players are receiving decent salaries and in recent times the wages have gone up. But it's nowhere close to what the pig-4 players are getting. Inability to participate in the IPL is definitely one of the main handicaps. Tahir was able to play in the IPL because of his South African citizenship. The PSL has limited potential, because of prevailing laws in Pakistan which limits the cable TV audience and advertising. There is not much difference in GDP per capita between Pakistan and India, but the revenues for PCB are only around 1-2% of that of the BCCI.

That's true the franchises who select players and the businessman behind them is the major difference between Pakistan and India .BCCI and ipl players pays are very high than in Pakistan that's why may he players don't prefer to play for psl .

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Quote from: Marvell1 on December 30, 2022, 03:13:38 PM

Players are not very interested in playing for Pakistan because we have seen that a lot of great players did not get even the chance to play for Pakistan. When a player like Imran Tahir doesn’t get the chance to play for Pakistan, you know that there is something wrong with the selection panel. I agree that most Pakistanis are based on Pakistan itself. But the situation in Pakistan has hardly improved and it is always better for the players to play for other countries. And I don't see why players should still be very passionate about playing for Pakistan if the situation is not going to improve. I know they are getting paid decent salaries. But only salaries are not going to be enough for the improvement of Pakistan cricket.

Some of the players are receiving decent salaries and in recent times the wages have gone up. But it's nowhere close to what the pig-4 players are getting. Inability to participate in the IPL is definitely one of the main handicaps. Tahir was able to play in the IPL because of his South African citizenship. The PSL has limited potential, because of prevailing laws in Pakistan which limits the cable TV audience and advertising. There is not much difference in GDP per capita between Pakistan and India, but the revenues for PCB are only around 1-2% of that of the BCCI.

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Quote from: Marvell1 on December 30, 2022, 03:13:38 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 29, 2022, 09:15:24 PM

Quote from: SirLancelot on December 29, 2022, 03:26:11 PM

In Pakistan things never been ideal for the game and players which is a big cause for many players are mostly settled in England, and few other countries for their better future even many are completely out of this game due to their financial issues because they are not able to have better income as well here in Pakistan.

This is strange. A number of players moved from Pakistan to other countries in the past and settled there. One example is that of Azhar Mahmood who got the British passport. Then we have Fawad Ahmed and Imran Tahir. But it is quite rare nowadays. Most of the Pakistani players are now based in that country itself. And if I am not wrong, the salaries have also increased by quite a bit. On top of that, the players are earning handsome amounts from the PSL and other franchise leagues such as the Abu Dhabi T10. The situation has completely changed in the last 5-6 years or so.

Players are not very interested in playing for Pakistan because we have seen that a lot of great players did not get even the chance to play for Pakistan. When a player like Imran Tahir doesn’t get the chance to play for Pakistan, you know that there is something wrong with the selection panel. I agree that most Pakistanis are based on Pakistan itself. But the situation in Pakistan has hardly improved and it is always better for the players to play for other countries. And I don't see why players should still be very passionate about playing for Pakistan if the situation is not going to improve. I know they are getting paid decent salaries. But only salaries are not going to be enough for the improvement of Pakistan cricket.

We got a new Chief Selector Shahid Afridi. Everyone knows who is he? And his role in the Pakistan cricket. And we hope he will become a good selector and in his monitoring I hope we will see more improvement in the Pakistan's team. And best players will get a chance to play in the team and will hold their positions in the team.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 29, 2022, 09:15:24 PM

Quote from: SirLancelot on December 29, 2022, 03:26:11 PM

In Pakistan things never been ideal for the game and players which is a big cause for many players are mostly settled in England, and few other countries for their better future even many are completely out of this game due to their financial issues because they are not able to have better income as well here in Pakistan.

This is strange. A number of players moved from Pakistan to other countries in the past and settled there. One example is that of Azhar Mahmood who got the British passport. Then we have Fawad Ahmed and Imran Tahir. But it is quite rare nowadays. Most of the Pakistani players are now based in that country itself. And if I am not wrong, the salaries have also increased by quite a bit. On top of that, the players are earning handsome amounts from the PSL and other franchise leagues such as the Abu Dhabi T10. The situation has completely changed in the last 5-6 years or so.

Players are not very interested in playing for Pakistan because we have seen that a lot of great players did not get even the chance to play for Pakistan. When a player like Imran Tahir doesn’t get the chance to play for Pakistan, you know that there is something wrong with the selection panel. I agree that most Pakistanis are based on Pakistan itself. But the situation in Pakistan has hardly improved and it is always better for the players to play for other countries. And I don't see why players should still be very passionate about playing for Pakistan if the situation is not going to improve. I know they are getting paid decent salaries. But only salaries are not going to be enough for the improvement of Pakistan cricket.

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Quote from: mm2543363580 on December 27, 2022, 07:03:20 AM

Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 26, 2022, 11:54:25 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 26, 2022, 10:23:08 PM

Quote from: BobK71 on December 26, 2022, 08:20:05 AM

Jofra Archer is a right-arm fast bowler. And we know that fast bowlers are generally more prone to injury. Winning in cricket is unpredictable similarly injuries also happen suddenly. At the moment i think he is fully recovered his injury and now he can be regular in cricket. By using him only in T20 format, England team can get good output. He should be kept away from ODI and Test matches for few days ‍so that he can adopt early in all the formats in cricket.

Some of the fast bowlers are more prone to injury. In India we have Jasprit Bumrah and T Natarajan who get injured at least once every year. Dale Steyn, one of the best fast bowlers in the history of cricket had his career cut short as a result of injury. On the other hand, we have bowlers such as James Anderson and Peter Siddle, who almost never gets injured. It depends a lot on the bowling action. Archer and Bumrah should seriously consider changing their bowling action, to prevent further injuries. But then, they need to maintain the pace as well.

It is not that easy for a bowler to suddenly change his action. What they can do is reduce their pace and play less cricket than they are playing now. Muscle injuries are quite common with bowlers and that is why they have less career span than batters. I am still not certain whether Archer will be able to bowl in the same manner as he used to prior to his injury. Recently we had seen Shaheen Afridi struggling with his bowling after his come back from injury. If he recovers fully before the bilateral series he still would struggle in few matches and then might come to his original form.

That's a struggle of fast ballers they are prone to injury due to their pace and than they will be on long break that effects their cricketing career. Shaheen Shah Afridi recovered from a knee injury and In T20 world cup his injury got strained again and now he's again on rest. So cricket boards should revise policies for fast ballers and limit their overs so that they won't get hurt again and specially check their pace and style of balling.

Shaheen Shah Afridi wasn't fully fit in the T20 world cup and he lacked the pace that he had prior to his injury. I wonder how many more months will it take to heal it completely and return to his previous form.

This is very unfortunate for fast bowlers to stay out of match practice in order to heal the injury. Also there is always a fear that any new bowler may perform well during his absence and he may not be able get his place back in the team due to high competition.

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Quote from: Tony116 on December 30, 2022, 01:53:00 PM

Quote from: SirLancelot on December 29, 2022, 03:26:11 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on December 29, 2022, 08:30:23 AM

snip

Pakistan is naturally rich in fast bowlers, but they have few bowlers those able to complete their career respectfully because most of the time they have on and off the field issues which hurt them badly in every era specially now you can check we have only three bowlers those completed 300+ test wickets and South Africa which joined cricket again in 1992 now have nearly 5 and now two or three more are going on good run because they have strong system and giving good support and facilities to their bowling squad which is important.

In Pakistan things never been ideal for the game and players which is a big cause for many players are mostly settled in England, and few other countries for their better future even many are completely out of this game due to their financial issues because they are not able to have better income as well here in Pakistan.

Pakistan is a country that has had a lot of issues for a long time. And a player in Pakistan is always under some certain mental pressure because of that as well. I am not saying that there are no other players who face such problems. If you look at Afghanistan which is a country always facing war, it is actually doing quite well in cricket. But in that sense, Pakistan should be doing a lot more.

Actually, it is a matter of internal problems in Pakistan. A number of factors, including the Pakistan cricket board and the politics of Pakistan, are impeding Pakistan's ability to improve in cricket. I agree with you that things in Pakistan have never been ideal. But that's the story of almost all cricket boards, right?

Pakistan cricket team players are currently in a very good place. I believe all the players in the team have great potential to do better. But their cricket board needs to play a major role in making them better.

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Quote from: SirLancelot on December 29, 2022, 03:26:11 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on December 29, 2022, 08:30:23 AM

snip

Pakistan is naturally rich in fast bowlers, but they have few bowlers those able to complete their career respectfully because most of the time they have on and off the field issues which hurt them badly in every era specially now you can check we have only three bowlers those completed 300+ test wickets and South Africa which joined cricket again in 1992 now have nearly 5 and now two or three more are going on good run because they have strong system and giving good support and facilities to their bowling squad which is important.

In Pakistan things never been ideal for the game and players which is a big cause for many players are mostly settled in England, and few other countries for their better future even many are completely out of this game due to their financial issues because they are not able to have better income as well here in Pakistan.

Pakistan is a country that has had a lot of issues for a long time. And a player in Pakistan is always under some certain mental pressure because of that as well. I am not saying that there are no other players who face such problems. If you look at Afghanistan which is a country always facing war, it is actually doing quite well in cricket. But in that sense, Pakistan should be doing a lot more.

Actually, it is a matter of internal problems in Pakistan. A number of factors, including the Pakistan cricket board and the politics of Pakistan, are impeding Pakistan's ability to improve in cricket. I agree with you that things in Pakistan have never been ideal. But that's the story of almost all cricket boards, right?

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Quote from: SirLancelot on December 29, 2022, 03:26:11 PM

In Pakistan things never been ideal for the game and players which is a big cause for many players are mostly settled in England, and few other countries for their better future even many are completely out of this game due to their financial issues because they are not able to have better income as well here in Pakistan.

This is strange. A number of players moved from Pakistan to other countries in the past and settled there. One example is that of Azhar Mahmood who got the British passport. Then we have Fawad Ahmed and Imran Tahir. But it is quite rare nowadays. Most of the Pakistani players are now based in that country itself. And if I am not wrong, the salaries have also increased by quite a bit. On top of that, the players are earning handsome amounts from the PSL and other franchise leagues such as the Abu Dhabi T10. The situation has completely changed in the last 5-6 years or so.

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Quote from: Tony116 on December 29, 2022, 08:30:23 AM

Pakistan has always been a country that produced a really good amount of fast bowlers. So, I wanna say one thing that they should always do is be careful about all the actions of the bowlers. Pakistan has a good amount of money for cricket allotted. They should not have these types of problems. But the thing is the situation in Pakistan is not as good as it seems from the outside. They have a lot of problems on the inside. Improving as a cricketing country, they started facing political problems. And now the personnel of the Pakistan Cricket Board has changed. So now it is hard to see how the new authority is going to do.

Bringing in the latest technology is not going to do anything if the cricket board is not interested in improvement at all.

Pakistan is naturally rich in fast bowlers, but they have few bowlers those able to complete their career respectfully because most of the time they have on and off the field issues which hurt them badly in every era specially now you can check we have only three bowlers those completed 300+ test wickets and South Africa which joined cricket again in 1992 now have nearly 5 and now two or three more are going on good run because they have strong system and giving good support and facilities to their bowling squad which is important.

In Pakistan things never been ideal for the game and players which is a big cause for many players are mostly settled in England, and few other countries for their better future even many are completely out of this game due to their financial issues because they are not able to have better income as well here in Pakistan.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 28, 2022, 09:30:19 PM

Quote from: ZAINmalik75 on December 28, 2022, 06:40:02 AM

If Pakistan didn't have a good facilities for bowlers rehabilitation then they must used a strategy of using more then 10 bowlers in order to reduce burden from bowler, which will reduced the chances of injuries, Everyone know that due to playing too much matches they got tired and fatigue and as a result they face injury of shoulder, knee , and back like Shaheen and Haris.
if they divide games between them then they will easily done Thier job without any injury.

One main issue with Pakistani pacers is that they play a lot of franchise cricket compared to others. Look at the Indian, English and Australian pacers. They concentrate on one franchise league. But in addition to the PSL, a number of Pakistani bowlers participate in other leagues such as the CPL and the BBL. We can't blame them, as the salaries with PSL are not very high. Also, a large gap still exists between the domestic cricket players and national players and domestic players struggle when directly brought to the national team.

There is no doubt Salary is big issue but sadly as we are already having how things change into PCB, so this is another issue with these changes they also change their policies which is also not positive thing for the players and their system if they are able to have same policy and bring all players under their command then surely they can manage in good way specially they also can bring two teams concept which is not popular in England, Australia and India.

They must bring few pools for the three formats and having bowlers in domestic set up as well which give them better results in test matches now after back to back three series, and we have all flat pitches which are surely not suitable for these youngsters, and they are not injured and out of the cricket, so hopefully they will change this concept as well, and we will have better cricket in near future.

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