Topic: Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history) - page 151. (Read 530609 times)

Well if the volume and value of rewards are dropping faster than any increases in ANC price.  Then that's where AuxPoW comes into play by merge-mining with much larger networked coins.  PoS in it's current form doesn't really work.  DPoS is interesting but isn't the ultimate solution to replace PoW as a fair distribution model.  A myriad of AuxPoW with much larger networked coins will secure the ANC network a lot more than going to any pure PoS model or even DPoS.  Peercoin is a very interesting attempt at the problem of avoiding sybil attacks.  Although to copy their moves would mean to adopt a continuously inflationary model.  I feel small coins grouping together into AuxPoW could help them build strong networks cheaply.  While using a myriad of merge-mined netowrks could strengthen Anoncoin even more.

The transactions to AJqUPzbF6epPjkyoGhV1VKYJL68nYBaSQS are most likely cryptsy getting rid of dust. That doesnt seem to explain the hash rate spike and the block delays.

Does anyone have an opinion on a 100% proof-of-stake system, similar to Peercoin? (actually, they use a mixed POW and POS system.)

The benefit is that there is little energy used with POS compared to energy hungry POW algorithms.

The downside is that there is built in monetary inflation (albeit, very low at 1% for peercoin, if I remember correctly).

One problem with doing this is that your transaction could be deanonymized by a timing analysis. If you buy X zerocoins, and then immediately spend the same amount, that would look really suspicious in the block chain.

Another possible solution might be instead to have all coins in your wallet immediately converted to zerocoins. Perhaps the wallet could say "You just recieved X ANC. Would you like to convert them to Zercoins?"

For the sake of simplicity (specially for casual users), the wallet software should have an "anonymous send" function which would both mint and spend ZC to a destination ANC address using the most appropriate denomination, so that the user doesn't have to know ZC or understand what is going on behind the scenes. ANC has to be simple in order to be popular, and advanced users will always be able to mint ZC manually.

The only thing users would have to understand is that "normal" send is not quite anonymous, and "anonymous send" is a bit more expensive because of the intermediary ZC step.

cool that you like it.
do you think the text is good or are we missing some important info about anoncoin?

like the Perro user a while ago, he wanted more focus on the anti-authoritarian, activist, community powered, non-corporative, movement kind of thing, and i think he has a point - but do you? after all you are the creator
would be good to get your point of view on the subject.

just once more:

it would make the search engines happy if all of us added clickable links to https://anoncoin.net and https://wiki.anoncoin.net in our message footer here on bitcointalk.

the best is to make describing keywords like "anoncoin" or "anonymous currency" into clickable links, instead of a clickable URL "https://anoncoin.net", like this:

looks like:
Anoncoin - Anonymous Currency

there are some limits to the number of characters in the footer:
- Activity: 0-29 = Newbie: No styling (including links) allowed. Max 50 characters.
- Activity: 30-59 = Jr. Member: Links allowed. Max 150 characters.
- Activity: 60-119 = Member: Unlimited length.
- Activity: 120-239 = Full: Color allowed.
- Activity: 240-479 = Sr. Member: Size allowed
- Activity: 480+ = Hero: Background color allowed

its also good to know that search engine crawlers get excited if DOMAIN A links to DOMAIN B that links to DOMAIN C that links back to DOMAIN A. this 3 (or more) domain link circle gives trust and high relevance to the domains as the search engine likes that the domains are existing in a bigger context. much better than "me and my friend" DOMAIN A to B to A.

with this in mind its good to add links to domains that links to anoncoin.net.

yes, i post this to get one step closer to Jr. Member

i created https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Anoncoin_on_Wikipedia for the future anoncoin article on wikipedia.

i was putting some info in an "infobox template" named "currency" but it doesnt show up, i guess it has to be added by an admin of the anon wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_currency

the infobox is the box of info on the right:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin
we need one to!

please admin, add the possibility to use infoboxes in anonwiki, would be cool on the anonwiki front page as well...

cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers

Aaah. Now it's getting a little clearer. Thanks!

Because there is a transaction cost for each zerocoin proof. Miners need to verify each proof (which is considerably harder than just verifying a hash), and to incentivize them to do so, each zerocoin that is spent will have a small transaction fee. For a 1000 ANC transaction, you could either redeem 1000 zerocoins each with a 1 ANC denomination (with 1000 times the transaction fee), or just 1 zerocoin with a 1000 ANC denomination (with just 1 transaction fee). I think that darkcoin does something similar.

I have no idea what the transaction fees will be, but I suspect it will probably be 10 times larger than the normal fee of 0.01, so lets say it is 0.1 ANC

I think that there are two ways to deal with the fee. Lets say you want to send 1 ANC to someone.

(1) You could mint a zerocoin with a denomination of 1.1 ANC. When you redeem the coin, the 0.1 fee goes to the miner and the 1 ANC goes to the recipient.
(2) You could mint a zerocoin with a denomination of 1 ANC, and then a second one with the denomination of the fee, 0.1 ANC. To send 1 ANC to someone, you would need to send a 1 ANC zerocoin to them, plus send a 0.1 ANC zerocoin to the miner.

Option 1 is faster, as only 1 proof needs to be verified, but if you change the transaction fee at a later date, that would really screw things up. For option 2, the miner would need to verify twice as many zerocoin proofs in order to get the fee.

Why would anyone use other denominations than 1 ZC?

Here is how it will (probably) work:

1. Zerocoin Mint Transaction

In your wallet, you will convert a part (or all) of your ANC into zerocoins, with 1 ANC = 1 Zerocoin. The Zerocoins will be denominated in factors of 10, so you will need to choose how to do this. Your wallet will store some information for each zerocoin you generate (like the coin serial number, an associated random number used to generate the coin, and the denomination). The blockchain will record information saying that "your public ANC address sent X ANC to the zerocoin pool."

2. Zerocoin Spend Transaction

You tell your wallet to redeem some zerocoins to a specified ANC address. This part is done using zero-knowledge proofs and the private info in your wallet so that you don't disclose who you are. This ANC address could be yours (if you want to "wash" your coins) or someone elses (if you want to do an anonymous transaction). 1 ANC will be credited to this ANC address for each Zerocoin that is redeemed.

The end result is the following:

The person who receives the ANC from the Zerocoin spend transaction won't know who they came from. All they will know is that they come from 1 of the people who ever owned zerocoins up to that date. As the number of people owning zerocoins will likely be VERY large, it will be impossible to guess who that person is. This differs from most other mixing services where the number of people you are mixed with is small, allowing you to play guessing games to eventually figure out who sent the coins.

The only thing you will need to worry about is the following: If the number of people who contributed to the zerocoin pool for denomination X is small, you are in danger of being found out. The wallet should thus tell you how many coins are in the escrow pool for each denomination. Even if this number is large, there is a possibility that all these coins belong to the same person! Thus it would also be a good idea for the wallet to tell you how many unique ANC addresses were used in the zerocoin mint transactions.

Wait what? ZC can't be transferred?   

My activity to the left is ...
Activity: 420

And we all know what 420 is

Correct, so it's just a temporary storage. But we still discuss for how long, and how to trigger the deletion of old ones etc.

You forgot one thing.
Lets assume we have a new algoryithm which is currently CPU-only. Im porting it to GPU but dont release it to the public, so its easy to 51% attack the network for me. Someone else could created an ASIC in the meantime and therefre would have 51%+ more than me.

ASIC is not "bad", its the opposite. Once ASICs are out, its hard to optimize more. Therefore there will be no sudden spike in hashrate. Of course it first needs time that enough ppl run ASICs, but afterwards its "safer".

Agreed. Perhaps a different way to look at this is the following: how much time will it take for an ASIC of a particular algorithm to appear on the market? If you want to avoid centralization of mining, it seems to me that you are condemned to hard-fork to alternative proof-of-work algorithms every X years. The goal should therefore be to make X as large as possible, all while making the computational gains associated with ASICs vs CPUs as small as possible.

Also, the zerocoins will not be "stored" in the second blockchain. As far as I know, this will just be a long list that contains the zerocoin zero-knowlegde proofs used when converting a previously minted zerocoin to an anoncoin. After these proofs have been verified, they are useless, and there is not much reason to keep this hanging around.

As far as I know, it is not possible to transfer zerocoins. To do this you would need to give someone the private serial number and random number associated with the coin. I believe that you can transfer "zerocash coins", but that is a different story.

ZC trading would be stupid and probably wont work well. ZC is ment so you have anonymous transactions. The value is bound to ANC directly, its not a "new coin", "subcoin" or anything like this. Think of it as a token, if i "convert" 10 ANC to ZC, i have 10 ANC ZC tokens. Now i can redeem these 10 tokens to get 10 ANC back, but nobody knows which original 10 ANC it was, therefore its anonymous.