Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread - page 38.

Collider

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Quote from: jeycreative on June 29, 2014, 05:26:22 AM

Quote from: Collider on June 29, 2014, 04:51:06 AM

Quote from: jeycreative on June 29, 2014, 04:43:31 AM

Was talking about this wallet :
https://blockchain.info/address/1Cz1pTK8GxsJqdHQrFLWh77WwYsyqyDX3k

the only known bitmine wallet.

That wallet holds less than half the known refund amount.

So what exactly are you proposing?

Are you doing it on purpose ?

The wallet holds 431 BTC and bitmine owes 172 BTC.
Maybe you got a different number.

431 - 172 = Bitmine still have 259 BTC left after refunding all of us.

NB. There have been a lot of move on this wallet. More than a thousand of BTC have been moved away this month.
So let's block this wallet now before they scramble everything.

Sorry, I thought the big number in the top right corner was the amount of owed refunds (why else would it be there?).
Only 200k in refunds seems quite manageable.

If they have ordered parts for $3M for cloudhashing / chip sales, it won´t be too long until refunds come through.

They just need to sell a few of those chips / contracts and everything should turn out fine.

jeycreative

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Quote from: Collider on June 29, 2014, 04:51:06 AM

Quote from: jeycreative on June 29, 2014, 04:43:31 AM

Was talking about this wallet :
https://blockchain.info/address/1Cz1pTK8GxsJqdHQrFLWh77WwYsyqyDX3k

the only known bitmine wallet.

That wallet holds less than half the known refund amount.

So what exactly are you proposing?

Are you doing it on purpose ?

The wallet holds 431 BTC and bitmine owes 172 BTC.
Maybe you got a different number.

431 - 172 = Bitmine still have 259 BTC left after refunding all of us.

NB. There have been a lot of move on this wallet. More than a thousand of BTC have been moved away this month.
So let's block this wallet now before they scramble everything.

Soros Shorts

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Quote from: jeycreative on June 29, 2014, 04:41:42 AM

Bankruptcy in Switzerland is a bit different.

When a company is under seizure, all their assets are blocked and people who have claimed they rights during the seizure process gets something (never more than the company owe them). The rest of the assets are placed under an auction ( like ebay in reel) and are sold to the best bidder until everybody has been paid back.

After the seizure, the company can still be viable if they still have some assets left.

I certainly hope that customers who are still owed product will get a right to claim something if this ever happened. It is not just the "refund list" people who should benefit.

Collider

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Quote from: jeycreative on June 29, 2014, 04:43:31 AM

Was talking about this wallet :
https://blockchain.info/address/1Cz1pTK8GxsJqdHQrFLWh77WwYsyqyDX3k

the only known bitmine wallet.

That wallet holds less than half the known refund amount.

So what exactly are you proposing?

Collider

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Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Yes, but in the case of bitmine they will not have finished product lying around, they have parts and parts on order.

Nobody will pay as much as bitmine payed for these parts, and it is highly unlikely that anyone will be buying these parts at all.

Therefore there won´t be enough to refund everyone if you try and force them into bankcruptcy, which is what you are ultimately doing when arguing your case about Betreibung in front of the court.

All that I am saying is that this is not the best possible outcome for customers.

jeycreative

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Was talking about this wallet :
https://blockchain.info/address/1Cz1pTK8GxsJqdHQrFLWh77WwYsyqyDX3k

the only known bitmine wallet.

jeycreative

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Activity: 70

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Bankruptcy in Switzerland is a bit different.

When a company is under seizure, all their assets are blocked and people who have claimed they rights during the seizure process gets something (never more than the company owe them). The rest of the assets are placed under an auction ( like ebay in reel) and are sold to the best bidder until everybody has been paid back.

After the seizure, the company can still be viable if they still have some assets left.

jeycreative

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Quote from: jeycreative on June 29, 2014, 04:22:35 AM

Quote from: Collider on June 29, 2014, 04:17:33 AM

can you do that even as a non-swiss citizen?

I'm gonna investigate that matter.

So, you have to live in Switzerland in order to do it.

BUT, someone living in Switzerland can do it for you. As a representative.
I am volunteering for anyone who wants to do this and claim your rights.

Contact me via pm to begin the procedure. I'll give you my info, so you can fill the form and send me the pdf.

I guess Bitmine is gonna oppose every sommons to pay so I'll have to send another letter to confirm that we are continuing the process of seizure.
I'll charge 10 Chf.- so I don't have to pay on my own postal fees. 6.- for the first registred letter, 1.- for the second letter and 3.- for printing material.
Sounds fair to me, but if you are in money trouble, we can discuss it and you'll repay me when we F**ing finally get our money back.

Collider

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Quote from: jeycreative on June 29, 2014, 04:12:28 AM

Quote from: Collider on June 29, 2014, 04:08:41 AM

I would say cheap cloud mining is quite a good innovation.

Also, i would support them selling their cloudmining contracts, as they need to sell their hardware in order to refund anyone that is waiting.

What about their BTC wallet ? useless for refunds ?
Ar you waiting for a refund too ? Is it listed on http://www.bitminerefund.com/ ?

You attitude is strange to my point of view. sorry to say it.

I don´t know which bitcoin wallet you are talking about, or whether it is actually theirs and not their payment processors.

My "attitude" is influenced by the reality of corporate bankcruptcy proceedings.

If you put legal pressure on a company to refund you, even though it is your right to do so, they have to give the court documentation of their business records and financial situation.

The court will then find out that there are numerous other unpaid refunds, and will not grant the company permission to only refund you.

If as a result of this the company would be forced into involuntary (only a theory, i am not claiming they are) bankcruptcy, everyone who is owed a refund will get a piece of tha cake (if there is any cake left).

Commercial creditors like banks or other business entities typically get priority in repayment, and therefore the average joe might not receive anything.

With this background in mind, the situation will become better for everyone if the company can just sell their likely already existing / ordered hardware (in the form of cloudhashing), raise capital and pay everyone back.

jeycreative

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Quote from: Collider on June 29, 2014, 04:17:33 AM

can you do that even as a non-swiss citizen?

I'm gonna investigate that matter.

Collider

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can you do that even as a non-swiss citizen?

jeycreative

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Quote from: Collider on June 29, 2014, 04:08:41 AM

I would say cheap cloud mining is quite a good innovation.

Also, i would support them selling their cloudmining contracts, as they need to sell their hardware in order to refund anyone that is waiting.

What about their BTC wallet ? useless for refunds ?
Ar you waiting for a refund too ? Is it listed on http://www.bitminerefund.com/ ?

You attitude is strange to my point of view. sorry to say it.

jeycreative

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Quote from: Collider on June 29, 2014, 03:48:24 AM

Sure, they can always contest a "Betreibung" and the only option then would be a legal dispute, where you would have to sue them in a civil court.

That takes time however, and during that time the rest might already receive a refund.

What you are describing as a "ponzi scheme" is how EVERY business works, they have to sell product in order to produce more product and refund customers who aren´t satisfied.

I still think their cloudhashing offer in Iceland with 100% renewable energy and at a professional data center is quite a good deal, as they have managed to negotiate a good cost, as the price includes power.

Maybe you should go check this datamining facility, just to be sure.
I really rather invest my money in DTMA or DTMB shares right now than anything coming out of Bitmine.

I guess you haven't followed Bitmine since it's beginning.
Tell me more how business works please.

Taking them to court doesn't negate the possibility of an out of court arrangement to avoid them more and more fees.
So your argument is invalid. I would even say that I might get a refund before those who just do nothing about it.
You are just saying that we should quietly sit on our asses waiting for the grass to regrow at Bitmine ?
That seems to me plain stupid, FIGHT FOR YOUR/OUR RIGHTS DAMMIT !!

I ADVICE EVERYONE LIVING IN SWITZERLAND TO SEND THEM A SUMMONS TO PAY FOR THEIR REFUND.
First of all, it puts pressure on those lazy greedy useless entrepreneurs.
It blocks this debt for a unlimited time, if you don't after 10 years it's gone.
It adds a 5% interest/year to what they already owe you.

Contact me via mp if you need help in this approach.

here is a link to launch the seizure protocol.
https://www.e-service.admin.ch/eschkg/cms/content/betreibung/betreibung_einleiten_fr

It is in french, german and italian. In the end the form created is in italian.
And you have to send it by postal mail.

Collider

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I would say cheap cloud mining is quite a good innovation.

Also, i would support them selling their cloudmining contracts, as they need to sell their hardware in order to refund anyone that is waiting.

jeycreative

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Quote from: Helium7878 on June 28, 2014, 01:35:20 PM

Quote from: jeycreative on June 28, 2014, 02:32:58 AM

Had them on the phone, it is over for them.

Did they tell you that? Can you tell us what exactly they said?

First that they do one refund a day. I ask for written confirmation. He retracted and said maybe once a week.
Then I asked for the "limitations"(number of wire allowed per day), It was clearly a lie.

I think they had issues with parts, followed by a poor decision to order chips with money that should have been reserved for CPP. They have poor judgement... but I don't think they're trying to rip anyone off, or that they are going bankrupt. If anything, its likely to pick up for them with $3,000,000 worth of mining power at their disposal.

No more money, no more customers, no innovation, All the signs of decline... or supersonic fall waiting for the crash.

When somebody is saying that we should trust them because they haven't ran away with our money YET, it did ring an alarm in my brain yelling "SCAMMERS'Talk". Maybe it's me. Maybe it's my phone. Maybe this story could have been over months ago. Maybe they are going to jail. Who knows ?

The refund list is as accurate as orders numbers btw.
The statement

Collider

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Sure, they can always contest a "Betreibung" and the only option then would be a legal dispute, where you would have to sue them in a civil court.

That takes time however, and during that time the rest might already receive a refund.

What you are describing as a "ponzi scheme" is how EVERY business works, they have to sell product in order to produce more product and refund customers who aren´t satisfied.

I still think their cloudhashing offer in Iceland with 100% renewable energy and at a professional data center is quite a good deal, as they have managed to negotiate a good cost, as the price includes power.

jeycreative

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Bitmine cloudmining is another Ponzi, DONT TRUST IT!!
[/color]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

There are rules and also laws, 30 days refund is part of them.
If they choose not to refund people, it is a crime.
If they try to delay the refund, it is also a crime.

We all see that they have still got more than enough BTC on their wallet to refund everybody.
So cut the crap !! I am not buying their sweet tales of how unfortunate they are.

We respected our part of the deal, their turn now.

I have already sent a legally valid summons to pay for one of my very late order & refund.
On the phone they told me that they oppose each summons to pay they receive, which is already a clear view of their state of mind.

Tomorrow, I will send the other summons to pay for my second and last order at Bitmine.
I will also ask to continue my first summons to pay in order to proceed to the seizure of their assets. They got nothing to contest it anyway.

As for the police, It is fair to condemn unfair business practices. I have already told the federal customer protection service in Switzerland, they are investigating now. The police is just a detail, my legal insurance will take the lead for the rest of this sad story.

Had them on the phone multiple times, gave them lots of extra delays...but these guys don't listen.

DONT TRUST BITMINE, YOU WILL REGRET IT !!

Quote from: Collider on June 28, 2014, 01:39:27 PM

They are not bankrupt, they are just having cashflow issues.

They should have most of customers money but it is tied up either in hardware or parts.

Therefore, they cannot refund without selling their existing hardware.

Afaik, if you contact them they will happily send you twice your ordered hashrate as compensation, if you are entitled for a refund.

You can go to the police all you want, but it is most likely a civil lawsuit so the police won´t do too much.
It should also be quicker to just wait for your refund than getting a court date in ~6months.

I think the mining contracts bitmine is now selling are quite fairly priced, especially when considering the price that cloudhashing robs you with.

Collider

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They are not bankrupt, they are just having cashflow issues.

They should have most of customers money but it is tied up either in hardware or parts.

Therefore, they cannot refund without selling their existing hardware.

Afaik, if you contact them they will happily send you twice your ordered hashrate as compensation, if you are entitled for a refund.

You can go to the police all you want, but it is most likely a civil lawsuit so the police won´t do too much.
It should also be quicker to just wait for your refund than getting a court date in ~6months.

I think the mining contracts bitmine is now selling are quite fairly priced, especially when considering the price that cloudhashing robs you with.

Helium7878

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Quote from: jeycreative on June 28, 2014, 02:32:58 AM

Had them on the phone, it is over for them.

Did they tell you that? Can you tell us what exactly they said?

I think they had issues with parts, followed by a poor decision to order chips with money that should have been reserved for CPP. They have poor judgement... but I don't think they're trying to rip anyone off, or that they are going bankrupt. If anything, its likely to pick up for them with $3,000,000 worth of mining power at their disposal.

jeycreative

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Bitmine = Bankrupt so they are launching a new ponzi to refund the first players...

Had them on the phone, it is over for them.
Going to police on monday. You should do the same.

I am not letting these people robbing new potential btc aficionados one more time.

Time for the big auction !!!

Topic: Official BITMINE CoinCraft series 28nm ASIC miners thread - page 38. (Read 565240 times)