[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 83.

DoubleSwapper

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Quote from: SebastianJu on April 02, 2015, 03:40:48 PM

Quote from: DoubleSwapper on April 02, 2015, 03:24:36 PM

Quote from: Sukrim on April 02, 2015, 02:25:54 PM

People can either take a fixed rate or flexible rate. FRR historically has spiked due to manipulation and wiped out a lot of positions, hence the setting to allow traders to either consider FRR and take the risk of a spike or not.

FRR has spiked? lol. It went from 0.02 to 0.1 Sry, but that is the same crap that was said last time when I posted about this issue. How it could potentially be clever to reserve at 0.7 (who the fuck believes this?) because FRR would run out... Of course it didn't, there is still plenty and it's still at 0.1 when the spikes regularly go to 0.7 and beyond. When was the last time FRR was over 0.2? Ages ago and exactly because shit like this is allowed. If these guys want to take out six figure offers force them to take from FRR or calculate FRR dynamically but fix it once the offer is put on the book. What's happening is seriously ridiculous and absolutely in line with all the bullshit that has happened on the swap market before.

Instead of having a liquid market that reacts dynamically to increasing supply and demand (low demand it's at 0.02-0.05, high demand it goes to maybe 0.3) we always get shit like this just because fucking BFX is too stupid to remove the fucking FRR. I'm so fed up with this shit.

I dont have a problem with FRR. Swaps on FRR are still only people that dont want to manually put in their loan offers. FRR doesnt push the price forward or backwards. Its the peoples money on there and their money would be elsewhere in the orderbook without FRR. So taking it out only would lead to offers done manually. It wouldnt help you to make great swap deals i think.

But what do you write about taking offers behind FRR? Is that happening or not? It shouldnt be possible if FRR is there. So were offers taken that were behind FRR?

I noticed that somethings not correct with FRR too. I mean it sometimes shows up on the left side of orderbook with values that dont match or dont make sense to show up there. I wonder if FRR is calculated in a buggy way. But i surely would like to have given some swaps at 0.6% per day for 30 days... oO

Of course it happens as I have shown with the screenshot. It's happening right now and nobody cares. You can also look it up on bfxdata. Seemingly because suddenly people (god knows why, it never happened before 1.5 months ago) order large amounts of money (6 figures+ multiple times) and don't include "variable" rate" to be taken which cleans the order book behind the FRR but leaves it intact. Tunneling like that should not be possible, it messes up the order book, ruins any predictability and further kills liquidity.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: DoubleSwapper on April 02, 2015, 03:24:36 PM

Quote from: Sukrim on April 02, 2015, 02:25:54 PM

People can either take a fixed rate or flexible rate. FRR historically has spiked due to manipulation and wiped out a lot of positions, hence the setting to allow traders to either consider FRR and take the risk of a spike or not.

FRR has spiked? lol. It went from 0.02 to 0.1 Sry, but that is the same crap that was said last time when I posted about this issue. How it could potentially be clever to reserve at 0.7 (who the fuck believes this?) because FRR would run out... Of course it didn't, there is still plenty and it's still at 0.1 when the spikes regularly go to 0.7 and beyond. When was the last time FRR was over 0.2? Ages ago and exactly because shit like this is allowed. If these guys want to take out six figure offers force them to take from FRR or calculate FRR dynamically but fix it once the offer is put on the book. What's happening is seriously ridiculous and absolutely in line with all the bullshit that has happened on the swap market before.

Instead of having a liquid market that reacts dynamically to increasing supply and demand (low demand it's at 0.02-0.05, high demand it goes to maybe 0.3) we always get shit like this just because fucking BFX is too stupid to remove the fucking FRR. I'm so fed up with this shit.

I dont have a problem with FRR. Swaps on FRR are still only people that dont want to manually put in their loan offers. FRR doesnt push the price forward or backwards. Its the peoples money on there and their money would be elsewhere in the orderbook without FRR. So taking it out only would lead to offers done manually. It wouldnt help you to make great swap deals i think.

But what do you write about taking offers behind FRR? Is that happening or not? It shouldnt be possible if FRR is there. So were offers taken that were behind FRR?

I noticed that somethings not correct with FRR too. I mean it sometimes shows up on the left side of orderbook with values that dont match or dont make sense to show up there. I wonder if FRR is calculated in a buggy way. But i surely would like to have given some swaps at 0.6% per day for 30 days... oO

DoubleSwapper

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Quote from: Sukrim on April 02, 2015, 02:25:54 PM

People can either take a fixed rate or flexible rate. FRR historically has spiked due to manipulation and wiped out a lot of positions, hence the setting to allow traders to either consider FRR and take the risk of a spike or not.

FRR has spiked? lol. It went from 0.02 to 0.1 Sry, but that is the same crap that was said last time when I posted about this issue. How it could potentially be clever to reserve at 0.7 (who the fuck believes this?) because FRR would run out... Of course it didn't, there is still plenty and it's still at 0.1 when the spikes regularly go to 0.7 and beyond. When was the last time FRR was over 0.2? Ages ago and exactly because shit like this is allowed. If these guys want to take out six figure offers force them to take from FRR or calculate FRR dynamically but fix it once the offer is put on the book. What's happening is seriously ridiculous and absolutely in line with all the bullshit that has happened on the swap market before.

Instead of having a liquid market that reacts dynamically to increasing supply and demand (low demand it's at 0.02-0.05, high demand it goes to maybe 0.3) we always get shit like this just because fucking BFX is too stupid to remove the fucking FRR. I'm so fed up with this shit.

Sukrim

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People can either take a fixed rate or flexible rate. FRR historically has spiked due to manipulation and wiped out a lot of positions, hence the setting to allow traders to either consider FRR and take the risk of a spike or not.

DoubleSwapper

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So why again does BFX allow people to tunnel through the FRR and take offers behind it? Where is the logic in this manipulative bullshit? We have over 1.6 M (now over 1.7 actually) in swap offers on FRR which represents the majority of available money on the book.
Instead of having an increase in FRR because of a high demand we have an FRR that is glued to 0.1x with random batches of 6 figure sums tunneling through to sky high rates at unpredictable times. This is bullshit.

Am I allowed to buy bitcoins at 800 to pump the price? No? Then why is this allowed?

Is this what a proper orderbook looks like?

SebastianJu

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Man... that gave me thinking... i tried to send some coins from bitfinex to pay someone. I sent and... cancelled. My bitcoins landed in trading account. And it claims not enough funds in trading account. But when i checked Manage Wallets all looked fine. I though maybe its a fee and raised it. Nothing. Maybe from another account, no. Until i went into trading account and saw, that for some reason there is a -0.01 USD. And i already thought i wont get my coins out anymore... happened probably too often. Roll Eyes

So please... could you negotiate on one calculation for the same numbers? Thanks!

noggin-scratcher

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I did notice a little weirdness with the UK switching forward an hour (GMT to GMT+1) - I tried to account for the change in my records by subtracting an hour from the duration of each swap that crossed the point of the change, but the resulting prediction for how much of a swap payment I was due at 1:30 (local time when the payment was made, 00:30 GMT) was more accurate if I didn't subtract that hour, as if there had actually been an extra hour's duration in that day when the clocks changed.

Sukrim

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Last info I had on this is that at random (about 1 hour) intervals swaps are retuned by a batch job.

Also keep in mind that recently daylight saving time started in a few countries, it might be the case that this somehow caused a 1h offset somewhere.

noggin-scratcher

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Quote from: Sukrim on March 31, 2015, 05:06:11 AM

only affects display.

Well... the negative numbers appearing as positive is only a display bug, the more salient point of negative "time remaining" being possible in the first place is at least a minor bug.

I guess they're only able to be expired when some scheduled check is run - same as the delay on re-offering funds with auto-renew.

Exactly as this guy said:

Quote from: Mythoughts on March 31, 2015, 05:24:16 AM

Shouldnt there be a check for that, like: if(expiration < 0) return swap;

Except it seems that the server is just a little tardy when it has quite so many swaps to run that check across.

Mythoughts

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Quote from: Sukrim on March 31, 2015, 05:06:11 AM

Quote from: Mythoughts on March 31, 2015, 04:15:36 AM

There might be a bug somewhere.

After counting down to 0, the negative numbers get displayed as positive in the UI. It's a known issue but only affects display.

Now we just have to find out why there can be negative numbers for more than half an hour.
Shouldnt there be a check for that, like: if(expiration < 0) return swap;

Sukrim

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Quote from: Mythoughts on March 31, 2015, 04:15:36 AM

There might be a bug somewhere.

After counting down to 0, the negative numbers get displayed as positive in the UI. It's a known issue but only affects display.

zanetackett

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Hey Everyone,

My apologies for not being very active in this thread. I'll be sure to comment more and help out with any problems anyone is having. I recognize that we need to do a better job of interacting with the community and i'll be making strides to that over the coming days. As always, you can send me a pm with any questions/concerns/feedback you have, or just to chat, and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

Mythoughts

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A swap I'm lending out was supposed to expire in 9 minutes, according to the "swap currently provided" overview. That was half an hour ago. Now it's expiring in 29 minutes.

There might be a bug somewhere.

Edit 1: now it's 37 minutes

Edit 2: now it's 44 minutes. The "expiring in"-timer seems to go up instead of down?

Edit 3: 1 hour now. This was/is a 30 day swap, and those 30 days were over 50 minutes ago.

Edit 4: and now it expired, just like that.

iruu

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Quote from: Timetwister on March 30, 2015, 06:01:31 AM

Until now, of course, but I care about the future, not the past. I'm not talking about account security and that kind of stuff, but about they running with the money, or the website being an scam. I'm lending since like a year ago, and I'm very happy with the returns, but I don't feel comfortable enough to deposit more.

Look at trading and lending volume and their fees. I would estimate bitfinex is going to make at least 5 million in profit in 2015.
Given that this is a market with potential for explosion (the kind VCs salivate on) bitfinex is worth at least 50 million dollars, probably much more (barely profitable Twitter, after years of losses, is worth 32 billion...).

If the money on the lending market is the majority of all deposited funds (hard to believe it would be a minority), in addition to risking prison, they would lose money by stealing money. So no, it's definitely not a scam and they are not going to run off with your money.

The only real risk is theft by non-owners (hacking, disgruntled employee, etc), enormous losses from margin calls, their bank going bankrupt and similar. Same for all other exchanges.

noggin-scratcher

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So, I seem to remember that the downloadable CSV of my account history (USD.csv) used to adjust the timezone of the timestamps according to the changes to local time; the timestamp of the daily swap payment, for example, going from "00:xx GMT" to "01:xx BST".

The clocks in Britain recently changed to BST (GMT+1) for the summer and, whilst that appears to have been reflected in the timestamps listed on the history page, it's not reflected in the CSV. Any possibility of having that back as a feature? I guess I can just manually do the "+1" where necessary, but it'd be nice to not need to.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: Timetwister on March 30, 2015, 06:01:31 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 30, 2015, 05:54:28 AM

Quote from: Timetwister on March 30, 2015, 05:42:56 AM

I'm quite worried about the security of my funds on Bitfinex, and that's why I don't deposit more, while the return for lending money is quite high nowadays. I'd feel better if I saw them usually posting here, like they did in the past.

Can you explain? Till now i thought their security system is fine since they stay in business for so long. Is there a reason to be concerned?

How is the security compared to kraken?

Until now, of course, but I care about the future, not the past. I'm not talking about account security and that kind of stuff, but about they running with the money, or the website being an scam. I'm lending since like a year ago, and I'm very happy with the returns, but I don't feel comfortable enough to deposit more.

I have never used Kraken, I have no idea of what's going on there. I use Bitfinex only to lend, I don't trade.

They lately got a new top manager who came from btc china or so. I think if only a couple of responsible managers are there then they would make sure that security is tight and that user funds are secured in a way that it cant happen that one or two persons run with the funds.

Though as only with centralized exchanges... you have to trust for a certain amount. If bitshares would have a similar swapping feature then i would use theirs i think.

Timetwister

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Quote from: SebastianJu on March 30, 2015, 05:54:28 AM

Quote from: Timetwister on March 30, 2015, 05:42:56 AM

I'm quite worried about the security of my funds on Bitfinex, and that's why I don't deposit more, while the return for lending money is quite high nowadays. I'd feel better if I saw them usually posting here, like they did in the past.

Can you explain? Till now i thought their security system is fine since they stay in business for so long. Is there a reason to be concerned?

How is the security compared to kraken?

Until now, of course, but I care about the future, not the past. I'm not talking about account security and that kind of stuff, but about they running with the money, or the website being an scam. I'm lending since like a year ago, and I'm very happy with the returns, but I don't feel comfortable enough to deposit more.

I have never used Kraken, I have no idea of what's going on there. I use Bitfinex only to lend, I don't trade.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: Timetwister on March 30, 2015, 05:42:56 AM

I'm quite worried about the security of my funds on Bitfinex, and that's why I don't deposit more, while the return for lending money is quite high nowadays. I'd feel better if I saw them usually posting here, like they did in the past.

Can you explain? Till now i thought their security system is fine since they stay in business for so long. Is there a reason to be concerned?

How is the security compared to kraken?

Timetwister

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Quote from: Ente on March 30, 2015, 05:38:26 AM

Quote from: Timetwister on March 25, 2015, 08:31:06 AM

I miss the support stuff in this thread, at least for commenting announcements or something. Or do they post somewhere else?

The third designated community support guy stuck his head in here some time ago. And never was seen again.
The second one at least tried a few times, talking about "a huge faq is in the works".Support here went downhill when Giancarlo moved along.

Sad. One would think with more success, more marketshare and more (relative and absolute) fee income BitFinex has, they could hire at least a part-time support guy watching this thread and possibly reddit+mail? Maybe the situation is better on the other channels - but come on, we have 5589 posts and 358527 views in this thread!

Ente

I'm quite worried about the security of my funds on Bitfinex, and that's why I don't deposit more, while the return for lending money is quite high nowadays. I'd feel better if I saw them usually posting here, like they did in the past.

Ente

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Quote from: Timetwister on March 25, 2015, 08:31:06 AM

I miss the support stuff in this thread, at least for commenting announcements or something. Or do they post somewhere else?

The third designated community support guy stuck his head in here some time ago. And never was seen again.
The second one at least tried a few times, talking about "a huge faq is in the works".Support here went downhill when Giancarlo moved along.

Sad. One would think with more success, more marketshare and more (relative and absolute) fee income BitFinex has, they could hire at least a part-time support guy watching this thread and possibly reddit+mail? Maybe the situation is better on the other channels - but come on, we have 5589 posts and 358527 views in this thread!

Ente

Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 83. (Read 723861 times)