Topic: [OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # - page 41. (Read 458370 times)

I think it's great that you raised the question, and I think it might lead to change in the system.  However, like I said before, I think wk made the right move in not announcing the situation.  I feel that a lot of people in BTC are in it to make a quick buck, and if they have the opportunity to get a significant amount of extra BTC for free I think most of them will take it.

Obviously, we shouldn't inherently trust all pool operators, but that's why there are multiple pools.  We all look for a pool we like and we hope we can trust them, it's not a perfect system.

Thank you as well

You posted this reply while I was posting my last one, but I think I kind of hit on what I think happened.  To make it more clear for others, though, this has less to do with shelved shares and more to do with the payment queue.

0.  Block #277343 is found.
1.  First payment goes out.
2.  System crashes before payment queue gets updated.  (the system probably waits from a confirmation or two before updating the queue to ensure payment happened).
3.  wk goes to the data center and fixes the problem.
4.  Block #277361 is found.
5.  wk initiates a manual payment according to the (now out of date) payment queue.

This means that the people 25 BTC down in the queue from the first payment didn't receive their BTC when expected.  They didn't lose any BTC, but they had to wait an additional block before they received their payment.

I believe that the section of code that he posted yesterday is intended to prevent this type of mistake in the future, because it won't let payments be made from fail-safe mode.  This will allow the queue to get updated accordingly before a payment is sent.

Dont forget to thank me for raising the question because at first you gave me attitude.

Even the founder of the pool, Luke , is confused at times. He said its coming from his pocket which is not yet proven. Wk wants miners to work off the mistake but no transparency whatsoever. Is he a saint or hes asking us to trust him completely even after his own mistake? Trust should never be a requirement. Beside, withholding the information means he doesnt trust his miners.

Ofcourse having shares stats wont fix the problem. The problem was identified as operator's mistake. But it would show transparency. I also want to here how he would "fix" the problem. Because i dont want to be the one paying for, you know what i mean.

 

Thank you for explanation.

He didn't pay out of pocket, he accidentally used the reward from the block that was found while he was fixing the system.  As a result, people who received a double payment had a negative balance set (it read as 0.00000000 BTC on stats).  This balance was "worked off" by the miners continuing to use the pool.  So, if you got a double payment, and you didn't do anything to your miners… they likely already payed off your double payment.

@seriouscoin

hahahahaha I must be tired, I see that you're asking how the shelving system was circumvented.  I don't believe it was, since the double payment that went out was merely a manual payment of what the system already had in the queue.  Since the system was in fail-safe mode and wk didn't check to see if a payment was made, his manual payment simply payed off what had been in the queue.

I see how having knowledge of how many shares you had in each block could be beneficial to miners, but I don't think it would have fixed this problem.  

A mistake was made, and I think that wks way of solving it was probably the best way to go about fixing it.  If he had made an announcement, it's likely that the pool would be at a -25 BTC deficit, because most of the people who got a double payment would have switched pools or changed their payout address to get around "working off" the double payment they received.

Didnt i get ppl here to confirm that he didnt pay out of his pocket?

My question is to get this clear. His payout got messed up meaning it wasnt paid out according to a proper shares log.

Hence my question "where did that 25BTC come from? "...... because it has to come from miners whose submitted shares werent paid. (shelved shares)

I don't understand some people here.
He paid from his own pocket, what else you want from him?
wk please put the list of addresses with double pay :
If i see my address here i will return the money , simple.
Don't forget we do not pay anything for using Eligius.st !!!!

LOL thanks

But thats not my question. Look the payout method is sound but the implementation IMO isnt.
I would have gotten my own answers if there were stats to show all my submitted shares, paid out shares and shelved shares.

Where can we see this shares log?

Edit: wk's stats shows "rewards" which got messed up because it doesnt show negative balance. After this you understand why "shares"are more transparent than "reward". Look at BTCguild's PPLNS stats for example.

Ok, we'll try it like this…

25 BTC came from block #277361
25 BTC came from block #277343

That's where the BTC for the double payment came from.

I understood the mess up. Please read the post above

If you read wk's post from last night he clearly explains that the BTC for the double-payment came from block #277361 that was found just as he was taking the system out of fail-safe.  The original payment was meant to come out of the BTC mined from block #277343, which was found just before the system went into fail-safe mode.

Hope this clears it up for you, if not, please re-read the entirety of wk's post from last night where he explains the situation.

Then explain to me where did the extra 25btc comes from? I know it came from a new block but it wasnt paid out according to shares log.... (shelved shares). How did that happen?

Edit: basically from what i read wk's post, the payout system didnt have the updated shares log (or its not synced properly). So the shelved shared were not paid and how exactly wk is going to do to fix it? can wk explain how the miners would have to "work off" the double paid? dont they already shelved shares to be deleted?

I'm not accusing. He withhold the information. I understand his reason but i dont understand how double payout is possible if the pool's wallet is empty!

Uh, you must be new here. Eligius generates payouts, they don't come out of a wallet except in rare cases.

So the pool's wallet and his personal wallet is one? Because otherwise he would have noticed the double payout or the server wouldnt have made the double payout due to empty balance.

Obviously he's covering it out of pocket. I don't know what you're accusing him of being dishonest about... 

If the same thing happened as last time, it will come out of wk's pocket.

Wow, you REALLY know how to make a mountain out of a mole hill, don't you?   

If you don't like Eligius, why don't you go mine somewhere else?  GHash.io are really transparent...