Pay in rubles or have your gas shut off by April - page 3.

Rasa nanas

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Quote from: eaLiTy on May 13, 2022, 06:00:05 PM

Quote from: Crypto Library on May 13, 2022, 09:58:30 AM

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No matter what they say in the end you will see that they are buying oil and gas from Russia by rubble, whether openly or secretly. Because they have no choice but to do so. Europe imports 40% of its oil and gas from Russia. Europe will have to spend a lot of time looking for alternative routes and will have to pay higher prices than could be bought from Russia. I wouldn't call selling oil and gas in rubles a blackmail because if everything can be bought with USD then why not rubble? The USD is a country's currency, the ruble is also a country's currency .

Ruble went down in valuation because of the restrictions imposed upon them and they can demand pay in their currency to balance that and since Russia have the upper hand because majority of the oil is imported to Europe they will be forced to comply as there is no other country that will be able to comply with the demand. If i remember correctly even OPEC rejected the proposal to increase production.

True, although the European Union condemned the decision but Russia must do it to balance the value of their currency. in a war situation like this the organizational regulations will not apply to a big country like Russia, this can be proven when Russia does not heed the request from the head of the UN for Russia to stop the invasion of Ukraine. I also heard that Russia left the UN Human Rights Council and also left the nuclear agreement.

be.open

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Quote from: DrBeer on May 13, 2022, 05:25:45 PM

Quote from: be.open on May 11, 2022, 03:17:29 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on May 11, 2022, 02:13:10 PM

And this link is interesting, well, to make it more interesting: The European Union confirmed the refusal to pay in rubles for gas from Russia

Here is also an interesting link and a week more recent - the Prime Minister of Italy says that European companies can pay for gas in rubles.

In general, European politicians say a lot of things, but at the same time, it is not politicians, but commercial companies that conclude contracts for the supply of gas.

And in the end, no one except a couple of "Kremlin's pet dogs" pays in rubles

I understand that there is a huge group of pro-Kremlin influential politicians (bought or dependent due to compromising evidence) in the EU who can lobby interests, or at least destabilize the situation with their statements . This is normal for such a global confrontation!

You are in too much of a hurry and too early to sum up. This story hasn't even really begun yet, we can say now we are witnessing a prelude, or maybe the first act. Russia has made its first move in this economic war that the West has declared against it and has imposed sanctions on all Gazprom subsidiaries in Europe and around the world. Now all long-term contracts have become invalid, because they were not signed directly with Gazprom, but with its subsidiaries, which are now under sanctions. Contracts will have to be renegotiated (or not), under the terms of Russia with payment to Gazprombank and conversion into rubles, and at other prices. Germany will no longer be able to make huge money on the reverse of Russian gas. Poland can scream all you want about its rejection of Russian gas, but the gas it received in reverse from Germany was suddenly also Russian. The next cycle of payments for gas already supplied by Russia should be in the range from 15 to 20 May. Have some patience.

Sithara007

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Quote from: eaLiTy on May 13, 2022, 06:00:05 PM

Ruble went down in valuation because of the restrictions imposed upon them and they can demand pay in their currency to balance that and since Russia have the upper hand because majority of the oil is imported to Europe they will be forced to comply as there is no other country that will be able to comply with the demand. If i remember correctly even OPEC rejected the proposal to increase production.

OPEC has production agreements with Russia and other non-OPEC oil producers. This severely limits their capability to increase the output. And it doesn't make any sense for the OPEC to bring down oil prices. Why should they agree to something that can reduce their revenue? Countries such as Saudi Arabia suffered a lot when crude oil was trading at $40 to $50 per barrel during 2014 - 2021. Now why should they let go this golden opportunity, which can reduce their budget deficit and external debt?

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Crypto Library on May 13, 2022, 09:58:30 AM

~
No matter what they say in the end you will see that they are buying oil and gas from Russia by rubble, whether openly or secretly. Because they have no choice but to do so. Europe imports 40% of its oil and gas from Russia. Europe will have to spend a lot of time looking for alternative routes and will have to pay higher prices than could be bought from Russia. I wouldn't call selling oil and gas in rubles a blackmail because if everything can be bought with USD then why not rubble? The USD is a country's currency, the ruble is also a country's currency .

Ruble went down in valuation because of the restrictions imposed upon them and they can demand pay in their currency to balance that and since Russia have the upper hand because majority of the oil is imported to Europe they will be forced to comply as there is no other country that will be able to comply with the demand. If i remember correctly even OPEC rejected the proposal to increase production.

DrBeer

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Quote from: be.open on May 11, 2022, 03:17:29 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on May 11, 2022, 02:13:10 PM

And this link is interesting, well, to make it more interesting: The European Union confirmed the refusal to pay in rubles for gas from Russia

Here is also an interesting link and a week more recent - the Prime Minister of Italy says that European companies can pay for gas in rubles.

In general, European politicians say a lot of things, but at the same time, it is not politicians, but commercial companies that conclude contracts for the supply of gas.

And in the end, no one except a couple of "Kremlin's pet dogs" pays in rubles

I understand that there is a huge group of pro-Kremlin influential politicians (bought or dependent due to compromising evidence) in the EU who can lobby interests, or at least destabilize the situation with their statements . This is normal for such a global confrontation!

Crypto Library

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on March 31, 2022, 01:19:35 PM

Putin has threatened so called unfriendly states to pay in rubles or have its gas supply shut off. It has said it doesn't buy things for free and so isn't going to charitable with its energy.
Europe has kicked against this with Germany saying its being blackmailed by this move. What other choice does Europe has with Russia alone selling about 40% of energy to the world.

No matter what they say in the end you will see that they are buying oil and gas from Russia by rubble, whether openly or secretly. Because they have no choice but to do so. Europe imports 40% of its oil and gas from Russia. Europe will have to spend a lot of time looking for alternative routes and will have to pay higher prices than could be bought from Russia. I wouldn't call selling oil and gas in rubles a blackmail because if everything can be bought with USD then why not rubble? The USD is a country's currency, the ruble is also a country's currency .

Sithara007

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Quote from: be.open on May 11, 2022, 03:17:29 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on May 11, 2022, 02:13:10 PM

And this link is interesting, well, to make it more interesting: The European Union confirmed the refusal to pay in rubles for gas from Russia

Here is also an interesting link and a week more recent - the Prime Minister of Italy says that European companies can pay for gas in rubles.

In general, European politicians say a lot of things, but at the same time, it is not politicians, but commercial companies that conclude contracts for the supply of gas.

A lot of things are left in the grey zone, open for interpretation. Many of us may have heard about the "Latvian Blend". This is a new brand of crude oil which came in to picture recently. Petroleum giant Shell PLC came up with this brand, in order to continue dealing with Russian crude. In order to avoid breaking the sanctions, Shell agreed that they will stop the purchases of Russian crude. Here "Russian crude" refers to any crude oil blend with 50.00% or more of it's input originating from Russia. So what they did, they purchased equal amount of crude from Russia and Kazakhstan, and then transported it to the port of Ventspils in Latvia. Here the crude from two different countries are blended together to make sure that 50.01% of the blend is Kazakh in origin and the remaining 49.99% is Russian. Just one example of how the politicians and businessmen continue to fool ordinary people.

be.open

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Quote from: DrBeer on May 11, 2022, 02:13:10 PM

And this link is interesting, well, to make it more interesting: The European Union confirmed the refusal to pay in rubles for gas from Russia

Here is also an interesting link and a week more recent - the Prime Minister of Italy says that European companies can pay for gas in rubles.

In general, European politicians say a lot of things, but at the same time, it is not politicians, but commercial companies that conclude contracts for the supply of gas.

DrBeer

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Quote from: Rasa nanas on May 04, 2022, 06:07:11 AM

well it is a retaliation against a hostile country that imposes economic sanctions on russia. Of course a country like Germany feels this is extortion because Germany is forced to buy gas from Russia using the Russian currency, namely the ruble, and if Germany does not accept these conditions then Russia will not sell gas to Germany and gas prices in Germany will rise drastically. Among all NATO member countries Germany is a country that is in the most difficult position due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine because most of the energy in Germany is supplied by Russia.

Germany - buys for rubles?

Are you distracted from Russian TV even for a second?

Germany is very unambiguous, and back in April it said that under the terms of the contract, payment is in foreign currency and not some papers with the name ruble. And accordingly, Germany will comply with the terms of the contract, and if someone wants to fight in hysterics, pretending that he can set conditions for someone, then he can even climb the walls in his bunker. Payment only within the terms of the contract! Or can you provide evidence to the contrary? Well surprise!

))

And this link is interesting, well, to make it more interesting: The European Union confirmed the refusal to pay in rubles for gas from Russia

be.open

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Quote from: be.open on May 04, 2022, 06:46:33 AM

Europe has frozen Russian money and is trying to steal it. This is a big mistake and it will have consequences. I think Putin will ban the export of natural gas to Germany in May (for the nationalization of Gazprom-Germany assets and for trying to pay Gazprom for gas with Gazprom's own money) and prohibit the reversal of gas to all importers in Europe who agree to buy Russian gas for rubles. "Liver Sausage" Scholz can already pack his suitcase and get ready to retire.

Well, the Russian government has approved a list of legal entities against which retaliatory sanctions will be applied. There are 31 companies on the list, among them EuRoPol GAZ S.A. - the owner of the Polish section of the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline and the German subsidiaries of Gazprom. I don't know how Germany is now going to buy and physically receive gas from Russia, even if it really wants to.

I think Germany will have to learn to live without Russian gas (or urgently reanimate Nord Stream 2, and even this is not a fact that will help).

Renampun

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Quote from: Paul Pogba on May 04, 2022, 10:07:54 PM

The thing that makes Europe powerless to pressure Russia to stop the invasion is gas dependence, if gas is stopped then automatically a lot of industry and electricity in many European countries will stop and the losses are certainly bigger, of course it is very difficult to find a substitute country for gas supply.

I can't imagine how much damage will happen if European countries don't buy gas and oil from Russia anymore...

factories, vehicles, and also electricity are things that are very dependent on oil and gas, If this stops then activities will be paralyzed and the economic cycle will stagnate. I know it's difficult but paying in rubles they have to obey because it relates to their millions of citizens but if there is another solution they have to choose that so the sanctions on Russia can be effective.

wiss19

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Quote from: stompix on May 03, 2022, 07:31:32 AM

snipped

There is a "type" of person in the world that glories Russia for some reason. I do not know the exact reason for it but they do have a Culture, so maybe it is about loving their culture or something but it could be political as well.

So, we would have to actually consider these people fans of Russia basically, and they will end up saying things like Russia will beat ANYONE in the world, some think that Russia is bigger than the west as well, or just imagine China combining forces with Russia and become bigger than the west. This is a funny thing to anyone who knows the reality, just the USA alone has bigger military power let alone other nations, but it's who they are, what can we say.

19Nov16

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I heard that Poland and Bulgaria were now suspended by supplying gas because they failed to pay with rubles, there was no official statement from the two countries but what I heard was that the 2 countries immediately paid with rubles, of course this was a power from Russia because of European dependence on Russian gas supply .

Semar Mesem

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Russia's important step to suppress Europe is with gas, as we know that more than 50% of Europe's gas supply comes from Russian gas pipelines, so when a conflict occurs, of course, Russia will benefit, apart from Europe, Russian gas is also supplied to many countries including India.

be.open

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Quote from: tygeade on May 05, 2022, 01:04:15 AM

Quote from: be.open on May 04, 2022, 06:46:33 AM

Quote from: yhiaali3 on May 04, 2022, 06:21:46 AM

Europe must find an alternative to Russian gas to get rid of the Russian pressure card.

This is an open market and Russia, as a major player, is well aware of the possibilities of each supplier of natural gas. Europe will pay for Russian gas in circumvention of its own sanctions for as long as Russia itself allows it - because Europe has no other alternatives and will not have in the foreseeable future.

In the sixth package of EU sanctions against Russia adopted today, there is not a word about natural gas, this issue is not even discussed.

I would guess that there could be some alternatives, I mean yeah we are seeing it not get done for now at the time being but that doesn't mean that it will have to stay that way forever. Gas is not something that only Russia has, other nations have it as well and Europe could handle a way to get it one way or another, via any nation they need to and just pay more if they have to and get this done.

Or they could just drop the need and get a lot less from somewhere else and cover the other needs some other way. It is not "impossible", quite a tough task but not impossible which means that if they want to get rid of Russia dependence, they need to find an alternative solution.

The objective reality is that there are simply not enough volumes on the market to compensate for Europe's refusal of Russian gas - and this is not only a question of price (Europe as a whole is already forced to buy Russian gas much more expensive today than, say, a year ago). But of course there is an alternative solution - you can abandon the entire energy-intensive industry and this will significantly reduce Europe's dependence on Russian gas.

tygeade

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Quote from: be.open on May 04, 2022, 06:46:33 AM

Quote from: yhiaali3 on May 04, 2022, 06:21:46 AM

Europe must find an alternative to Russian gas to get rid of the Russian pressure card.

This is an open market and Russia, as a major player, is well aware of the possibilities of each supplier of natural gas. Europe will pay for Russian gas in circumvention of its own sanctions for as long as Russia itself allows it - because Europe has no other alternatives and will not have in the foreseeable future.

In the sixth package of EU sanctions against Russia adopted today, there is not a word about natural gas, this issue is not even discussed.

I would guess that there could be some alternatives, I mean yeah we are seeing it not get done for now at the time being but that doesn't mean that it will have to stay that way forever. Gas is not something that only Russia has, other nations have it as well and Europe could handle a way to get it one way or another, via any nation they need to and just pay more if they have to and get this done.

Or they could just drop the need and get a lot less from somewhere else and cover the other needs some other way. It is not "impossible", quite a tough task but not impossible which means that if they want to get rid of Russia dependence, they need to find an alternative solution.

Paul Pogba

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The thing that makes Europe powerless to pressure Russia to stop the invasion is gas dependence, if gas is stopped then automatically a lot of industry and electricity in many European countries will stop and the losses are certainly bigger, of course it is very difficult to find a substitute country for gas supply.

Freeesta

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on March 31, 2022, 01:19:35 PM

Putin has threatened so called unfriendly states to pay in rubles or have its gas supply shut off. It has said it doesn't buy things for free and so isn't going to charitable with its energy.
Europe has kicked against this with Germany saying its being blackmailed by this move. What other choice does Europe has with Russia alone selling about 40% of energy to the world.

When we learned this news, everyone said that none of the countries would pay in rubles for gas. What do we see today? European countries depend on Russian gas and if they do not want to freeze, they will pay in the currency that Russia chooses. Good Russia or bad, but it has gas, but Europe has no gas. We can talk a lot about this, but there is only one result - change money and buy gas.

be.open

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on May 04, 2022, 06:21:46 AM

Europe must find an alternative to Russian gas to get rid of the Russian pressure card.

This is an open market and Russia, as a major player, is well aware of the possibilities of each supplier of natural gas. Europe will pay for Russian gas in circumvention of its own sanctions for as long as Russia itself allows it - because Europe has no other alternatives and will not have in the foreseeable future.

In the sixth package of EU sanctions against Russia adopted today, there is not a word about natural gas, this issue is not even discussed.

Quote from: stompix on May 03, 2022, 07:31:32 AM

What is Russia going to do with 120 billion cubic meters, sell it to whom and how? Huh

?

Do you really think that it is a big problem to dispose of excess energy? Even the option of simply burning excess gas sounds much better for Russia than supplying it to Europe without payment.

Europe has frozen Russian money and is trying to steal it. This is a big mistake and it will have consequences. I think Putin will ban the export of natural gas to Germany in May (for the nationalization of Gazprom-Germany assets and for trying to pay Gazprom for gas with Gazprom's own money) and prohibit the reversal of gas to all importers in Europe who agree to buy Russian gas for rubles. "Liver Sausage" Scholz can already pack his suitcase and get ready to retire.

yhiaali3

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Quote from: Rasa nanas on May 04, 2022, 06:07:11 AM

well it is a retaliation against a hostile country that imposes economic sanctions on russia. Of course a country like Germany feels this is extortion because Germany is forced to buy gas from Russia using the Russian currency, namely the ruble, and if Germany does not accept these conditions then Russia will not sell gas to Germany and gas prices in Germany will rise drastically. Among all NATO member countries Germany is a country that is in the most difficult position due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine because most of the energy in Germany is supplied by Russia.

In my opinion, this is not revenge. This is a normal reaction from a country subjected to harsh economic sanctions. It is not in defense of Russia or Putin's position. But you will not expect a country subjected to sanctions to stand silent, even if Russia was wrong in the decision to invade Ukraine (and it really is), but It will not remain silent about any action taken against it and will respond in kind. Russian gas is a very powerful card in Russia's hands, which Russia uses against Europe whenever it is forced to do so, and Germany is the biggest victim. Europe must find an alternative to Russian gas to get rid of the Russian pressure card.

Topic: Pay in rubles or have your gas shut off by April - page 3. (Read 1978 times)