Topic: Pay in rubles or have your gas shut off by April - page 10. (Read 1950 times)

That's not true, the risks are not nearly as high as you present them, which is why the EU must impose a gas embargo on Russia. There's the statement that EU already has enough gas till the end of winter. Now it's getting warmer, so the matter of gas will become relevant from the next heating season, starting in October. It's half a year away from now, and Germany buys around 40% of gas from Russia (so more than half is already covered by other sources). Also, the US said it'll help EU (and US has quite a lot of gas). Not to mention that if the Western world acted more swiftly right now, they could make the war end sooner, and then they could work out new deals with the new Russian government, including gas deals.

Because of the Sanctions the only thing that the Russians have is this Gas deal therefore if they increase their prices they would be able to gain some money off the sanctions and that is what they are trying to do at the moment as well. When Putin is threatening this he needs to understand that he cannot sit and eat gas or convert it into money therefore he is playing hard ball.

Europe needs Russian gas definately they cannot survive off any energy being deviated from other countries since that would take a while and it would be able to meet all the energy needs of Europe as well. Therefore they have to set prices with him since there are still countries like India who are willing to buy their gas ⛽ which he is providing them with at a much reasonable price even after the increase.

So :
1. Europe needs to set a price up which would not interfere with the sanctions
2. Russia need to stop playing hardball because they are not going to reach anywhere else with this

A lot of money is being sanctioned for Russia, so which one is actually the country that is dubbed the Super Power? Russia or US? When hit with oil, then gas, then pulled companies, the departing Starbucks economy also lost 10%. If I'm not mistaken KFC was also pulled from Russia. Which is where the superpower economy is held by Russia. Hi Chips Industry and also Titanium Industry mostly from Russia. Now Europe is starting to give in and open the way for negotiations.

This is quite interesting when everything has been estimated in advance. In my opinion, Putin had anticipated the risk of sanctions from the start, he would launch his actions on Ukrainian soil. Involving parties to show real alignments. Isn't this as if trying to filter which countries are pro and not. Then after that he imposed the payment of Rubles for the purchase of Gas and Oil. A few days ago, the gasoline shop where I live experienced a 10% increase and it was so bloated that I had to walk. Well, unfortunately, the oil and gas collectors piled it behind the house and then played the hoarding business of gas and oil.

Personally, I think it's a smart move. If I've got a product that others are willing to purchase, they should give me what I want in exchange for my product. Why must I accept dollars for sales of my goods and/or services?

Gas is a major need because of the weather condition , the weather in winter is very cold and heater is a big necessity as the terrain get frezen. Sourcing for alternative is the solution although maybe at a higher price because Putin is definitely using this as an advantage.

It's like going back and forth in my opinion, Europe doesn't want to be cold and of course it needs gas there on the other hand they also definitely want to have an effect on Russia but indeed Putin is not that shallow and he has thought about this carefully.
Well this is quite a difficult thing because indeed Putin and Russia have the resources needed and it is very difficult to criticize if they still need it

I was thinking how stupid the Russian government must be to anger their markets for Oil and Gas in the EU, because after this conflict ....they will have lost market share in Europe and this decision will hurt them in the long run. 

In any way, I do not think there are enough liquidity on Russian exchanges to convert the bitcoins back to Ruble .... they will have to transfer those coins to other "Russian friendly" exchanges to off ramp it into Fiat currencies. 

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if some companies were to actually do so, but I reckon they'd have to do something about it in the short term, so even if they did accede to the demands of Russia, it'd only be for a short time. Who knows, Europe might just develop alternate methods for energy/fuel due to the issue, though as I said in the short term, they have no choice but to rely on Russia. Well with said action Putin is just putting Russia in a much worse place from it's originally bad position.

Gas is very important and makes life much more confortable during winter season, but isn't it too drastic to say "freeze to death"?

Sorry, I live in a warm country, so I might be saying something wrong on this matter, but since people were able to live in Europe during middle ages without gas, but only wood and coal to keep the fire burning, wouldn't it be possible to do a temporary sacrifice for now until an alternative to Russia appears or is built by the occident?

Any weakness demonstration towards Russia is too dangerous now. The world should be concerned in showing Putin his influence over another nations isn't unlimited and decisive as he might imagine.

The USSR actually did sell oil and natural gas to western Europe.The decreasing oil prices during the 80s had a major negative impact on the soviet economy.
Anyway,the problem is where to buy rubles,in order to pay for the natural gas.The Russian central bank is under heavy sanctions,so the western banks cannot buy rubles from there.
I'm 99% sure that the EU will refuse to pay with rubles,but will the Russians stop the gas and get rid of their number one income source?It has been said,that Asian countries cannot fully replace European countries as natural gas buyers.

I have a feeling some, or perhaps many, gas companies might accede to the Russian demand, albeit secretly. And this is probably temporary, too. Things are happening abruptly and while there must be alternative sources and ways to do away with Russian gas, for the time being, it might do more good than harm if they acquiesce. But, overall, dependence on Russian gas will definitely start to wane down because of this invasion.

And this leverage by the Russians, while strong, is also a double-edged sword. It has its return damage.

Actually this was the expected move done by the Putin.When the rubles  price was further reduced ,the Russia government should react for this.Because when the price was further crashed,they can’t do anything good for them.The government economy will be collapsed with huge fall.The government will struggle to get any offer from government exchanges also.

I don't know the details, but honestly I don't think it is an unreasonable position. Is it any different than American exports having to be paid for with dollars?

I believe that's one way to act on this impending event. Renewable or other energy options will be explored faster than usual. It is not dead end for them. Russian gas is not the only source of energy. They will find a way how to overcome this bottleneck if in case Russia is serious about this implementation. They may even find out that there are better alternatives to the Russian supply.

Populations in the united and states and india have roughly doubled from the 1950s to the present.

I would guess a high percentage of europe was heated by firewood, with renewable forests being grown to satisfy demand prior to 1950. Over time population growth and a decline of renewable tree markets, led to europe becoming more dependent on natural gas. It is more convenient to use natural gas for heating purposes, than it is to chop and haul firewood or grow renewable forests for fuel. Its normal for natural market forces to select the more convenient option as the norm.

One option for europe could be to implement fast growing bamboo as a fuel source for heating purposes. Bamboo has a high growth rate, can be grown affordably and grows well in a variety of climates. Over time a stock of bamboo could be grown and harvested to provide fuel to replace natural gas. Excess bamboo could also be used for a variety of purposes.

The original "pay in rubles" headline may have been a calculated move. Russia undoubtedly wants the ruble to trend higher, which is correlated with higher buying of the ruble. And so if they announce they will only deal in rubles, there are many who will only see the 1st headline, and not the 2nd headline that corrects the 1st. Who will buy rubles for oil exchange. Which will push the ruble higher. its a common tactic in news cycles, where the original headline may deliberately be false and misleading in the hope that not many see the 2nd headline, which corrects it.

That's most likely going to happen in the future if inflow of cash is limited due to their conflicts but I'm also thinking that they want people to think that they aren't that desperate or as bad as people think but what happens happened already. But for now, Europe needed that gas energy or else they are the ones that's going to suffer too. Russia still has India and China to continue their business but paying in rubles is different.

If this will lead to halting they supply Russian gas, Europe will take a huge short-term economic hit from a sudden stop of many of their industries, but it will stimulate them to immediately solve their dependency. They will quickly build renewables and other sources of energy, as well as increase their alternative sources of gas. EU will withstand this crisis, it will not be pretty, but they are very rich so they can afford setbacks. Meanwhile Russian economy will just accelerate its freefall.

Europe still have other source of gas, they wont Freeze to death as you think though they should reconcile so people in Europe can still have a cheaper cost of petroleum. With Russia, they are on the edge of sinking because of the sanctions and if they keep pushing on this one, they’ll still suffer later on. EU and Russia needs each other, most of the imports in Russia came from western countries and with EU, they rely on the gas of Russia for over a decade now so this conflict should not last or else EU and the rest of the world will experience shortages on the supply which can affect many economies.

And what do you think about now that there are news that Russian Army are likely not taking orders and command and likely not going forward in the fight. I think this could be a wrong signal for Russia and may likely work against them. The gas supply to China isn't really an easy business that seems easily spoken, no matter how you look at it, Russia need EU for supply and they also need Russia for the gas.