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Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation - page 46. (Read 156711 times)

hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Bitbuy
Almost 40 pages of bovine excrement. Where are the usual trolls calling for a "scammer" tag? Pretty sure bitscalper wasn't given this much time to make things right.

And why are you even still commenting here, Zhou? Since supposedly you have no liability you should probably just stfu and let whoever does do the explaining.

I'm glad I peeped out how fake Bitcoinica was before all of this - you guys can keep my .9 BTC that I left over there.

Hey, shut up please. I for one love the updates Zhoutong is giving us, since the Bitcoin Consultancy is lacking in the update department.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
I, for one, am happy that positions will be liquidated around $5. That was the price when this shit happened, so it's reasonable. Plus, I have a short there Cheesy

LOL

I, for one, am happy that the sharks are left out in the cold now that the market is hot. Plus, I had no funds there Cheesy

heh  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1003
Almost 40 pages of bovine excrement. Where are the usual trolls calling for a "scammer" tag? Pretty sure bitscalper wasn't given this much time to make things right.

And why are you even still commenting here, Zhou? Since supposedly you have no liability you should probably just stfu and let whoever does do the explaining.

I'm glad I peeped out how fake Bitcoinica was before all of this - you guys can keep my .9 BTC that I left over there.
vip
Activity: 490
Merit: 502
I, for one, am happy that positions will be liquidated around $5. That was the price when this shit happened, so it's reasonable. Plus, I have a short there Cheesy

Obviously you took a bad position so fuck you hahaha, just kidding

Long should be liquidate NOW at market price and shorts at a convenient time ($ 5)

Zhoutong's opinion was "all short positions can liquidate at 4.94".
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.897877
Quote
Current positions will all be liquidated at a settlement price. We haven't decided the price yet, but my personal estimate is 4.98 / 4.94. (All long positions can liquidate at 4.98 and all short positions can liquidate at 4.94, we pay the spread for you.) All unrealized P/L will be settled in USD. If you don't have sufficient USD balance, we will use your BTC to settle, with the mid-point exchange rate (again, we pay the spread).

I suggested the team to pay spread to customers to make everyone happy. At that time the highest-lowest difference was 4 cents. Now it's 1 dollar. So I'm really not sure how the liquidation will be handled.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
I, for one, am happy that positions will be liquidated around $5. That was the price when this shit happened, so it's reasonable. Plus, I have a short there Cheesy

Obviously you took a bad position so fuck you hahaha, just kidding

Long should be liquidate NOW at market price and shorts at a convenient time ($ 5)

Zhoutong's opinion was "all short positions can liquidate at 4.94".
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.897877
Quote
Current positions will all be liquidated at a settlement price. We haven't decided the price yet, but my personal estimate is 4.98 / 4.94. (All long positions can liquidate at 4.98 and all short positions can liquidate at 4.94, we pay the spread for you.) All unrealized P/L will be settled in USD. If you don't have sufficient USD balance, we will use your BTC to settle, with the mid-point exchange rate (again, we pay the spread).
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
I, for one, am happy that positions will be liquidated around $5. That was the price when this shit happened, so it's reasonable. Plus, I have a short there Cheesy

Obviously you took a bad position so fuck you hahaha, just kidding

Long should be liquidate NOW at market price and shorts at a convenient time ($ 5)

Zhoutong's opinion was "all short positions can liquidate at 4.94".
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.897877
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
I, for one, am happy that positions will be liquidated around $5. That was the price when this shit happened, so it's reasonable. Plus, I have a short there Cheesy

Obviously you took a bad position so fuck you hahaha, just kidding

Long should be liquidate NOW at market price and shorts at a convenient time ($ 5)
hero member
Activity: 607
Merit: 500
I, for one, am happy that positions will be liquidated around $5. That was the price when this shit happened, so it's reasonable. Plus, I have a short there Cheesy
full member
Activity: 134
Merit: 100
Not sure if this has already appeared in the thread but from the bitcoinica.com page,

"Claims which have been internally identified as reasonably accurate based on records and for which the ownership of the claim has been determined will receive an initial payment of 50%"
hero member
Activity: 661
Merit: 500

Now just look how some big party desire to have the price to return to 5$ to avoid legal problems will effectively ensure that we will Bitcoin will never ever see 5$ handle again.

Damn markets have this ugly habit of inflicting maximum possible damage. It will now probably rally just to make the matters even worse.


I agree with your second sentence, but I am not totally sure I am in agreement in the first one.  If the majority were long, which I am assuming (what is your opinion?), I don't anticipate this being a problem.

We also absolutely have no idea when our coins were really, if ever, liquidated.


EDIT: If you are longterm (I am) this really isn't like the worst thing in the world either.  IMO, bitcoin is going up.  This is just a small speedbump on the way.  While currently it is a rather large percentage gain, I really believe there could be a major movement higher within the next 6 months that will dwarf this.  Hopefully a run to test 8.00++ shortly.

EDIT2: I was 90 coins long, but it's one of those things where at this point it's "whatever."  I am sure people with huge positions though might have a diff. opinion.

Long and short positions are roughly equal. But regardless, all positions are exactly hedged. This means that theoretically Bitcoinica's liquidated net assets in USD should not change regardless of market movement. However, in reality, short sellers may have been forced liquidated and there's no way to cover the losses.

Do you know that these positions actually have been liquidated? 
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
I'd love to be liquidated at 5.9, but at this point just want my money back to put into other investments.

True ... but I'm lot of anger.
Right now the profits of my position is almost the same as the value of my account, for me is enough money.
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
I'd love to be liquidated at 5.9, but at this point just want my money back to put into other investments.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
Are estimated 100k longs and 100k shorts, this month sure there have been times when it could be liquidated the 100k longs suddenly without reaching $5, practically everyone happy, the first very happy, with good profits and the last at least without loss.

Now obviously I want my position liquidated at 5.9
vip
Activity: 490
Merit: 502

Now just look how some big party desire to have the price to return to 5$ to avoid legal problems will effectively ensure that we will Bitcoin will never ever see 5$ handle again.

Damn markets have this ugly habit of inflicting maximum possible damage. It will now probably rally just to make the matters even worse.


I agree with your second sentence, but I am not totally sure I am in agreement in the first one.  If the majority were long, which I am assuming (what is your opinion?), I don't anticipate this being a problem.

We also absolutely have no idea when our coins were really, if ever, liquidated.


EDIT: If you are longterm (I am) this really isn't like the worst thing in the world either.  IMO, bitcoin is going up.  This is just a small speedbump on the way.  While currently it is a rather large percentage gain, I really believe there could be a major movement higher within the next 6 months that will dwarf this.  Hopefully a run to test 8.00++ shortly.

EDIT2: I was 90 coins long, but it's one of those things where at this point it's "whatever."  I am sure people with huge positions though might have a diff. opinion.

Long and short positions are roughly equal. But regardless, all positions are exactly hedged. This means that theoretically Bitcoinica's liquidated net assets in USD should not change regardless of market movement. However, in reality, short sellers may have been forced liquidated and there's no way to cover the losses.

Anyway it's a terrible thing to happen. Bitcoinica once had similar issues under management in January when the price booms and our position remains under-hedged (because of a bug in the hedging bot). Bitcoinica was in the edge of insolvency but fortunately I managed to handle that well and got positive returns for the company in that month.

But it's sad because Bitcoinica can't continue operation in the short term so it's really hard to solve problems caused by market movement.

Well yes, this could be avoided.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
In one month have had time to liquidate longs at high prices, this would drop the price enough to liquidate short at low prices and little by little everyone happy.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).
Well, that does it. None of us will be getting our money for 5-10 years, since lawyers will get involved for sure now.

On a plus side in 5-10 years 1-2 bitcoins one might have as some spare change in a frozen account could worth more than whole bitcoinica now.
hero member
Activity: 661
Merit: 500

Now just look how some big party desire to have the price to return to 5$ to avoid legal problems will effectively ensure that we will Bitcoin will never ever see 5$ handle again.

Damn markets have this ugly habit of inflicting maximum possible damage. It will now probably rally just to make the matters even worse.


I agree with your second sentence, but I am not totally sure I am in agreement in the first one.  If the majority were long, which I am assuming (what is your opinion?), I don't anticipate this being a problem.

We also absolutely have no idea when our coins were really, if ever, liquidated.


EDIT: If you are longterm (I am) this really isn't like the worst thing in the world either.  IMO, bitcoin is going up.  This is just a small speedbump on the way.  While currently it is a rather large percentage gain, I really believe there could be a major movement higher within the next 6 months that will dwarf this.  Hopefully a run to test 8.00++ shortly.

EDIT2: I was 90 coins long, but it's one of those things where at this point it's "whatever."  I am sure people with huge positions though might have a diff. opinion.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
The only way to end this without a court battle is to liquidate short positions at 5$ and liquidate long position at 6$ (or whatever the market price is at the time of liquidation or announcement of liquidation). Anything else and half of your customers are going to sue you and for a good reason.

Now only if you made exactly the same announcement about 2-3 weeks earlier as it was suggested...

Now just look how some big party desire to have the price to return to 5$ to avoid legal problems will effectively ensure that Bitcoin will never ever see 5$ handle again.

Damn markets have this ugly habit of inflicting maximum possible damage. It will now probably rally just to make the matters even worse.

It is really now more of a question of whether the veil of limited liability will be pierced or not and whether your investors will end up on the hook to pay damages to those customers that were long and often with a leverage.

Sad story really. Most of this could have been easily avoided.


Disclaimer: no accounts that I had access to had open positions and IANAL.



hero member
Activity: 661
Merit: 500
Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).

As I understand it, you try to annul the short's losses with the long's profits ? and any extra for you?
Am I wrong? You say that will be liquidated, so it has not yet been done and the market price is far from 5 ...

When it went down the interest rates for longs were much lower than short, is this right?  I remember it that way at least.  So, doesn't that probably mean most were long?  This is obviously total speculation on my behalf.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
Positions will be liquidated around 5 +/- 0.1 depending on the exact math (a close price that's a suitable middle ground between longs and shorts).

As I understand it, you try to annul the short's losses with the long's profits ? and any extra for you?
Am I wrong? You say that will be liquidated, so it has not yet been done and the market price is far from 5 ...
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