pirate payments list -- accounts paid: 23/459 - page 12.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on September 07, 2012, 05:26:57 AM

Quote from: Vladimir on September 07, 2012, 05:18:46 AM

Yep it would be much wiser to be much more abstract and use word "Ponzi" or even "Fraud" instead of "MMM". My bad.

Everything about the timelines, his wife having talked about Zeek rewards, it's all circumstantial of course, but it would explain a lot. If it does turn out to have been a passthru for Zeek rewards, that'll be sad. Patrick still says it's not what they had discussed as being the method to make money though so either Pirate was lying (becoming more likely to me) or it's -still- not a ponzi. Either way, the lending rates in this community have got to equalize sooner or later. I think this pirate fiasco will help that a bit.

Part of the problem is the lack of existing financial world offering deposit accounts.

dust

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Quote from: flower1024 on September 07, 2012, 06:09:22 AM

i somewhere heard that if a ponzi is detected by sec and the funds gets redistributed all pass-throughs dont get anything

is that true?

if so would that mean that pirate does not get his usd cut to payout his btc lenders?

Why would that be the case? For example, Pirate owes Goat say 40k btc. The SEC makes pirate pay Goat some money. Goat can do whatever he wants with that money, including give it to other people. Pirate's "give a list of depositors or face the consequences" deal is bullshit imo.

Quote from: MrTeal on September 07, 2012, 06:07:00 AM

Another option is that Pirate knew it was a ponzi, but like many of the investor here he thought that he could get out before the collapse. If Pirate was running a passthrough and he had shuttered BTCST in July, he could have returned all the deposits and still come out way ahead (assuming no clawbacks) without risking his own money.

He would still be risking his own money, unless he intended all along not to pay back investors.

flower1024

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i somewhere heard that if a ponzi is detected by sec and the funds gets redistributed all pass-throughs dont get anything

is that true?

if so would that mean that pirate does not get his usd cut to payout his btc lenders?

MrTeal

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Another option is that Pirate knew it was a ponzi, but like many of the investor here he thought that he could get out before the collapse. If Pirate was running a passthrough and he had shuttered BTCST in July, he could have returned all the deposits and still come out way ahead (assuming no clawbacks) without risking his own money.

unclescrooge

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Quote from: ?? on ??

From what I understand about zeek it was paying about 1.5% a day.

Pirate said before he was making about 10.5% a week and paying out about 7%. Making a 3.5% profit.

1.5 x 7 = 10.5

Also the timing is just well odd. Same time zeek got shut down so did he.

Yes, but the "profit" in Zeek are in USD, and the profit with pirate were in BTC. In USD terms, Pirate "profits" were a lot higher (at least in the last months).

But then again, timing is odd :/

Matthew N. Wright

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Quote from: Vladimir on September 07, 2012, 05:18:46 AM

Yep it would be much wiser to be much more abstract and use word "Ponzi" or even "Fraud" instead of "MMM". My bad.

Everything about the timelines, his wife having talked about Zeek rewards, it's all circumstantial of course, but it would explain a lot. If it does turn out to have been a passthru for Zeek rewards, that'll be sad. Patrick still says it's not what they had discussed as being the method to make money though so either Pirate was lying (becoming more likely to me) or it's -still- not a ponzi. Either way, the lending rates in this community have got to equalize sooner or later. I think this pirate fiasco will help that a bit.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: ?? on ??

From what I understand about zeek it was paying about 1.5% a day.

Pirate said before he was making about 10.5% a week and paying out about 7%. Making a 3.5% profit.

1.5 x 7 = 10.5

Also the timing is just well odd. Same time zeek got shut down so did he.

Makes sense now.

Vladimir

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-

Yep it would be much wiser to be much more abstract and use word "Ponzi" or even "Fraud" instead of "MMM". My bad.

Vladimir

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-

this reminds me:

May 2012: http://bitcoinmagazine.net/ponzi-schemes-the-danger-of-high-interest-savings-funds/

Vladimir

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-

Quote from: dust on September 07, 2012, 04:35:35 AM

Why would anyone run a secret pass through to a ponzi when they could just run a ponzi themselves?

With reference to "Breaking Bad", reportedly a favorite show of Pirate and some of his leutenants:

Why buy meth from a cook and sell it on the street, when you can cook it yourself and then sell it?

myrkul

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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on September 07, 2012, 04:28:48 AM

So if Pirate's op was just a passtrough to Zeek, that means that he must have sold all the BTC that he received, so now there no risk of dumps and the BTC price can only go up and upper, right?

Finally, a ray of sunshine in this mess. A little hope, at least.

flower1024

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Quote from: dust on September 07, 2012, 04:35:35 AM

Why would anyone run a secret pass through to a ponzi when they could just run a ponzi themselves?

maybe he thought it was legit?

only thing i dont understand why he didnt told what he was doing the hole time.
he said he can't tell because other people would do the same: but i dont see a problem with that if he really invested in zeek.

dust

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Why would anyone run a secret pass through to a ponzi when they could just run a ponzi themselves?

conspirosphere.tk

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Bitcoin is antisemitic

So if Pirate's op was just a passtrough to Zeek, that means that he must have sold all the BTC that he received, so now there is no risk of dumps and the BTC price can only go up and upper, right?

Maged

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Quote from: P4man on September 06, 2012, 01:15:33 PM

It would also rhyme with pirate claiming to be afraid of BTC price increase, since he would be paid in dollar and owed BTC.
And it would even match his grandiose claims of being part of a much much bigger "thing".

as for the timing, Maged quoted pirate on august 17, 6pm:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-savings-and-trust-is-closing-101339

Not sure how long that was after pirate announced closing shop, but probably only a few hours.

All in all, sounds plausible.

I posted that 10 minutes after the announcement. The only reason it even took that long was because I needed to execute the contingency plan that I had written up after considering the possibilities a few weeks prior: sell everything... immediately. Turns out that I actually had plenty of time, so I could have just posted the announcement 3 minutes after it was public, but I had no way of knowing that Undecided

Quote

[2012-08-17 13:05:37] I'm in FULL PANIC mode, now. Contingency plans are now in progress.

myrkul

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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: Tomatocage on September 06, 2012, 01:25:38 PM

Yesterday he said he'd have further info later in the evening. Did anything ever materialize?

Nada. Radio silence from the Pirate.

herzmeister

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This Zeek theory does not coincide with Pirate hinting already at the end of July that he's going to close down:

Quote from: pirateat40 on July 24, 2012, 05:19:04 PM

Howdy,

[...]

Vandroiy has the following (2) options to choose from:

[...]

Don’t concede the wager and chance the outcome of Aug 14th.

[...]

-pirate

556j

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I think it was Vlad who mentioned pirate could be running a ponzi passthrough months ago. He mentioned MMM not zeek, but still interesting.

BrightAnarchist

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Quote from: P4man on September 06, 2012, 04:15:53 PM

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on September 06, 2012, 03:02:29 PM

Uhh, he was saying that your $1.4 million reasons do not ruin my reputation for life. I agree with him. You take bitcoin far too seriously. Perhaps it's time for a break from the forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqvsosSfr0

conspirosphere.tk

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Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: P4man on September 06, 2012, 01:15:33 PM

It would also rhyme with pirate claiming to be afraid of BTC price increase, since he would be paid in dollar and owed BTC.
And it would even match his grandiose claims of being part of a much much bigger "thing".

And it would even rhyme with the Pirate's allegation that he could not reveal his "secret sauce" because otherwise many others could copy it. Indeed, what's easier than to copy a ponzi-squared?

Topic: pirate payments list -- accounts paid: 23/459 - page 12. (Read 62220 times)