Topic: Poker talk - Specifically Hold'em - Hands and or strategy - page 12. (Read 4766 times)

paired boards are tough, especially when playing them OOP. i like a check-call on the river. we already built this pot up enough.


i like how you played it post-flop. i'm not sure how i feel about the pre-flop call for a 1/5 of our stack, since we're OOP and 88 is often tough to play post-flop. the flopped set made it easy, but that's not what will usually happen.


i'd be betting hard on the turn, maybe even just jamming depending on the villain. against a donk-ish player, you will run into KT or backdoor straight/flushes a non-zero amount of time but i still think this is the right move.


iffy spot. i don't really like value betting the river OOP with a weak ace after getting called down on the turn. i'm probably check-folding here, maybe calling a weak bet.

EDIT: this is villain-dependent. there are situations where i'd bet the river to get him to fold if he's the type to call down on A-high or K-high earlier in the pot. it's a shitty spot OOP though. he wasn't calling on flush draws, and if he was calling on straight draws, he could have hit or rivered top pair. then there's the possibility of A3 or slow playing A7 or maybe even X3s (though that calls for a pretty donk-ish UTG+1 RFI range).

i'm curious to see how this played out.....


i'm snap calling this. lots of villains will do this with garbage, thinking you're just c-betting a missed board. or he's got the flush draw/pair and we've got the right pot odds to call.

Hand 1:  Bet/Fold, around 1500.  Villain prolly has an under pair (KK) you could extract value from.  If he raises, fold and pick a better spot.  Sure you block AA, AK but what else could have except a pure bluff?  (He could have a lucky JJ too if that's part of his 3bet range vs UTG raises)

Hand 2:  Don't include the results in any of your hands.  Anyway, it's a math problem.  It's your hand vs his range and see if you have equity to call (I'll try throwing in some numbers at twodimes later if I'm not lazy.  I suck at it tho.  Lol)

Hand 3:  Bet 1/2 pot...  I think I'm going broke if he shoves.

Hand 4:  It's fine.  Calling's fine too giving him a card, the board's kinda dry.

Hand 5:  Can you post pf action again?

Hand 6:  Bet (make him fold better A high hands).  You're mostly losing at showdown if he checks back.  And size it on the bigger side and make it look like you're doing it for value.

Hand 7:  Nothing else to do but call.

Edit:  That's just all IMHO.  I suck at this game.

Here's the final play on that hand. I took it down
Hero bets 2355.00
Villain calls 2355.00 [Ac 9c]

So my thoughts on just calling as opposed to RRAI the flop  was that he would continue to barrel on the turn. I thought he had something like 88+, and any Axs , A9o+, KTs+, and maybe some KQ KJ off. The 3-bet was worrisome at first but I credited it more to his stack size than his overall hand strength. I didn't want to scare him off with a 3-bet on the flop, I was confident in the hand I had and wanted to let him push the action being in position. The turn really F'd that up I think, as he shut down, and I was not feeling it at all. I know I didn't have him on many 5's but the thought was still bouncing around in my head. The river had to be bet, and I likely would have called a re-raise up to 9000ish.

Your game sounds like it would be crazy. I'd likely just be handing over cash trying to wrap my head around the side bet portions. Not sure if friends was popular where you are but it reminds me of "cups"  

limpers and minraisers are basically sweetening the pot. when i have a 3-bet worthy hand and i have multiple guys like this in the pot, i like a big 3-bet to isolate one of them.

this is how i see it: they are giving us the pot odds to bet big. meanwhile, i am giving them the pot odds to fold. that aims for the sweet spot where only one of them (if any) will call.


in big stack/slow blind games, 4-bet ranges were a lot more interesting to contemplate. most tournament structures these days leave us short/mid-stacked most of the time (unless you're crushing it), so 3-betting often has a big "do you want to make your stand here?" kind of psychology. pot odds and pot commitment play a big role.


i'm curious, why'd you play it so weak? i think we have a healthy stack to do more fishing with. he could be on a (non-AA) pocket pair that didn't connect, broadway suited connectors which missed, a weaker ace, or worse. people are fairly liberal with preflop 3-bets these days.

i prefer betting in post-flop, or maybe check-raising his weak c-bet. see how scared he is of that ace.

as played, i might bet-call the river, assuming he doesn't do some crazy RRAI or something. based on preflop range, i figure he's unlikely to have flopped or turned a straight/set. we can probably put out a modest value bet on TP2K at this point. (in b4 villain rivered JJJ )


i assume you had KQ here? your hole cards are missing, but i'm pretty sure from context. suited or no?

this call looks a bit dicey based on my usual preflop ranges tbh. but there are (higher variance) strategies that probably justify it, especially if suited. unless he's been jamming in my face repeatedly and/or showing trash hands, i think i'm raise-folding preflop. what did you put him on before you called?

lots of hands here, i'll look at the others a bit later.....

Sorry for cluttering the post for Hold'em but it is very interesting for me! Actually never knew the terms for the various stages in english till recently, we play Poker where I come from but because it is not legal, we always host it at someone's house and we only play with people we know (or invite someone rare but still within the crowd).

We all have different names for it locally! And we call Jack "uncle" Queen "grandma" and King "grandpa" and a lot of variations of rules in between the turns. Like if you have both Aces red, you can "challenge" one guy to choose one of the first three cards to open, against you, whoever higher wins automatically like on a sidebet,,, Now that I have seen Hold 'em I think our versions are too complicated!

I'm going to post some hands below - There are quite a few of them. I'm going to try and keep it as clean as possible.

I also was wondering some opinions on strategy. So pre-flop there are a lot of people who limp or min raise. Now I never min raise unless maybe late position and shortstacked deep in a tourney; even then I'm not really feeling it. So I have a rather straightforward 2.15-2.4X betsizing when I'm first to act. If It's not a hand I would 3-bet normally I don't like to 3-bet min raises and am more inclined to just call, but I feel like limpers are different. What I can't decide on is should I raise to my normal betsizing or should I be increasing it when facing a limper?or 2?

So I recently was studying up on 3 bet sizing, and not going to lie it feels weird to apply it in game. I honestly felt a rush, and a bit of adrenaline making these plays - good thing it wasn't live my god I would have looked crazy. It's the sizing - (3-5X the bet depending on position) and committing of chips to that pot, I only applied it twice I believe the other night - which is fairly in line with mixing it in when applicable. Once was top of my range the other was near the bottom, not going to lie neither felt good. Looking forward to getting over the newbie feeling of it. I did notice though that I've definitely been on the other side of that and understand the pressure it applies.

I have decided to stop multi-tabling for the foreseeable while I focus on the improving. I don't go crazy 2 tables and generally it's not to bad, I honestly haven't done it in a few weeks, but I had a feeling I was near busting, or blinding out and thought I'd get another table going before it got to late in the reg. Couldn't do it lol, conveniently I got playable 2-3 playable hands in a row, multiple streets on both tables, the shit part was action seemed to line up each time where I was trying to figure out what to do with minimal time. Funnily enough I was happy with the plays, but had some river beats and was busted out of the new tournament, survived the other - go figure. I just really didn't like that position and found I couldn't give the hands the thought they deserved both during and after. Not to mention busting on the one had me feeling a little tilty, and I could feel myself fighting the urge to get spewy on the other.

Hand #1 9 seated - 175/350/45 Level 11 Hero - UTG (18810.00) Villain - BTN (43613.00) *** HOLE CARDS *** Main pot 360.00 Hero - [Ah Qd] raises to 790 Folds to BTN             Villain -  1930.00 Blinds fold I call *** FLOP *** [Ad 3s 4h]   pot 4745.00 Hero checks Villain bets 1050.00 Hero calls 1050.00 *** TURN *** [Ad 3s 4h] [2c] pot 6845.00 Hero checks Villain checks *** RIVER *** [Ad 3s 4h 2c] [Jc] pot 6845.00 Thoughts?

Hand #2 9-seated blinds 175/350/45 Level 11 Folds to me Hero -HJ [Qs Ks] (24280.00) I raise to 830,  Folds to Villain BB (7583.00) jams 7538.00 I call *** RIVER *** [3h 6c 8c Ah] [Kc] pot 15611.00   Villain  shows [Kh Jh] I win with the better kicker

Hand #3  7 handed - Blinds 300/600/75 Level 15 Villain - BTN (25969.00) Hero - UTG(22927.00) *** HOLE CARDS *** Main pot 525.00 Hero [As Qh] raises to 1395.00 Only the villain calls *** FLOP *** [5c Ad 5s] pot 4215.00 Hero bets 1865.00 Villain calls *** TURN *** [5c Ad 5s] [6d]  pot 7945.00 Hero bets 2695.00 Villain calls *** RIVER *** [5c Ad 5s 6d] [Js] pot 13335.00 Thoughts?

---

Hand #4 9 seated Level 6 Blinds 65/130/16 Folds to hero Hero LJ [8s 8d] (5266.00) raises to 295.00   Villain HJ (5589.00) 3 bets to 966.00 Folds to Hero who calls *** FLOP *** [8c Ts 4c] pot 2255.00 Hero checks Villain bets 888.00 Hero raises to 2395.00 and villain folds

Hand #5 8 handed Level 7 Blinds 75/150/18 Villain UTG (10396.00) raises to 325 Hero UTG+1 [Qc Qs] (7816.00) 3 bets to 1015   Folds to Villain they call *** FLOP *** [Jc 2h As] pot 2417.00 Villain checks h0twatercl0ck bets 875.00 Villain calls *** TURN *** [Jc 2h As] [Qh] Thoughts ?

Hand #6 9 handed Blinds 75/150/18 UTG folds Villain UTG+1 (5007.00) raises to 350 Folds to Hero BB [5s As] (10057.00) I call   *** FLOP *** [7h 8s 3c] pot 937.00 Checks through *** TURN *** [7h 8s 3c] [7d] pot 937.00 Hero bets 435.00 Villain calls *** RIVER *** [7h 8s 3c 7d] [9h] Thoughts?

Hand #7 9 handed Level 15 Blinds 300/600/75 Hero HJ [Th Ts] (17175.00) makes it 1465 folds to Villain-1 SB (7990.00) calls Villain-2 BB (9560.00) calls *** FLOP *** [9c 4d 2c] pot 4995.00 Checks to Hero - Bets 2950 Villain 1 folds Villain 2 Jams all in

Yeah there's always that worry of monster pockets that they slow played for the trap, or they just have you beat. I know there are spots where I've busted out by taking this same line it's just a tough call whether you're being slowplayed or bluffed.
Everything up until the turn would probably be the same, and then check behind was my initial thoughts, then call down on the river if there was a bet, if not probably bet pot.
Then I started thinking of doing it the same but downsizing the bet on the turn, to see if they just call down or re-raise. Try to use the small bet size to evaluate their hand strength. I think this might let me get bluffed more often though not to sure.
Not so much on my end I was sort of a splashy donk at times, being very aggressive pre. Then folding out flops and what not if I didn't hit anything. With the wide player skill level I wanted to be seen bluffing  small/mid size pots so I could get called down with better hands. It was a weird vibe starting out as me and betwrong were essentially heads up with 2 or 3 players afk, and 1 dropping in and out. A couple times they just got there with a straight or a flush. It was sort of backwards going from that to a half full table with dead money to my right unfortunately.

It was tough waiting on you to blind out I had to jam 10's once couldn't fold it for the 3rd time and I think k's the other time, this was actually your last blind in and I got called but it held.

Yeah getting another game going would be nice, hopefully everyone can sort out login  issues and timing. You should have just stayed up and been the splashy drunken donkey  

damn---i always give people like this too much credit. i would have called down here but there are similar spots where i know i've been bluffed out of the hand.

how would you play it if you were dealt A7 in the CO? check behind the turn? still bet-calling the same way?

any interesting hands from the private forum game? not sure if SB even has hand history since i can't find it. good job cashing. i slept through it and donated the buy-in..... hopefully we can push back the time a couple hours next time!

Sorry, I was on a short change and didn't get around to updating you on the hands. Here we go.

I'll mark it down, but I believe all of these hands were 9 seated, some may have been 8 but I'll go back through and confirm.
This started out 9 handed at the table. This was one of these moments when I didn't want to bet the strength, I do try to pay attention and mix it up. Some times betting and sometimes checking so as not to give away my hand strength.

---

As always thanks for the insights. I've been keeping in mind the "better spots" when I get into a tough spot, and have been playing around with smaller betsizing on certain boards post-flop depending on texture and holdings. Now I have to get a little better at handling the aggression of other players, normally not an issue. I did get into 1 tourney on my days off and just got lucky with my stacksize. I got real sick of the BB, at my table when I was BTN, 3 bet jamming and called him down with a couple off-suit broadway cards - definitely not a better spot. He hit a pair on the turn, it was a true 50/50, but not something I needed to be in. I did manage to claw back from it, but the rest of the tourny I feel my gameplay suffered from letting that moment get to me. I have been improving on finishes overall though with min cash or better the last 4 outings. I'll take that all day as I continue to improve.

It's very important for us who played gambling, people with enough experience tend to take advantage of your weakness. This game involves a lot of psychology, and if you're showing emotions they'll easily catch your idea and strategy. I don't think being humble isn't effective to provoke them, most probably being aggressive type can trigger their minds to take a gap over in order to prevent all sorts of hesitations.

how did those other 3 hands play out, Steamtyme?


i could see that. i was never a mass multi-tabler (6 tables max, often closer to 4) so i never noticed issues but i knew guys who 24-tabled and shit like that. it's true that those guys always played on stars.

btw you should join us on sunday if you can---private forum game on sportsbet.io, 1 mBTC buy in:


anyone who wants in can PM me for the password.

I recommend to play more till you come with your playinf style and dont keep it stable and do have variations. Start playing with your friends , with small blinds before you more on to big stakes and play with professionals. Bluffing is helpful at times but should not be your style..if you bluff too much and include it in your game , people with experience might corner you . Play humble , set your budget and dont be shy to fold if you are not confident about your hand.

Second best poker client in the world.    I always thought Stars has the best software, since those days playing the play money tables.  I thought FTP was too heavy on resources (esp. with tracker and hud running).

I do not use specific strategies. I think you need to adjust your gameplay depending on the game you are playing. You cannot apply the same strategy when playing a 6-max turbo as when you play a 9max slow format.
But the key in my strategy is having patience. Do not play to many hands but play the hands you do play perfectly.

I remember once a tournament I won on PokerStars. I remember it was the 10.5$ super knockout with over 3000 participants. Until reaching the final 100 I only played 7% of the hands that I got dealt. In the final stage it increased to 15% and at the final table I turned very aggressive.

But like I said it all depends on the format. If I am playing a turbo or hyper turbo you need to be more aggressive from the start cause the blinds are increasing much faster. When playing a hyper or a turbo I start more aggressive and try to build out my stack as fast as possible to get some room to become more passive mid stage.

Indeed this is the wrong assumption when it goes to Limping Strategy because:


https://www.google.com/search?q=limping+strategy&oq=limping+strategy&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Anyways, I keep reading this thread and follow hands updates but didn't have so much time lately to discuss them with you guys here.

From now on I will try to share my thought about the gameplay more frequently if there will be new hands to discuss of course  .

I assume yes because OP is really dedicated and still hungry for play when it comes to poker. I had this same, especially when I was at the winning strike for a longer time.

@Steamtyme, is it possible to note how many are seated at the table? that would affect preflop range.


i like the preflop raise and c-bet. on the turn RRAI i'd have put him on a strong draw (and called). i tend to give people too much credit. was he trying to bluff you off that or was he just a donk?


yikes. that turn and river is why i try to keep pots small after flops like that. very connected board. how often do you expect him to check behind you if you check the flop? i guess that's what determines whether i go for the steal (i'd rather not see turn+river if i bet) or play it more passively to get a cheap showdown.

without reads, villain could easily have raised AT, KT, QT, JT, TT (unlikely), T9, T8s, T7s, maybe other Tx. He also could have raised XsXs. there is a much wider range but the possibility that you are completely dominated by a straight or flush on the turn is real enough that we want to keep the pot small or get out IMO.

i'm probably not betting that turn and i'm probably check-folding the river. better spots to be had....


i might prefer a postflop 3bet there.

very frustrating turn. i would bet into his turn check and probably fold to a 3bet.


on the turn, your stack is only marginally bigger than the pot, correct? i think it's probably time to shove. the post flop check-call suggests either weakness or the nuts. either way, at these stack sizes i really don't like bet-folding to a turn check-raise. so i wanna get it in first to scare him off draws, weak pairs, top pair/weak kickers.


not much to say about this one, seems fine.


given that it's 3-handed i might bet the flop to isolate but that works.

Highly doubt it. Unless the newbie player is totally playing from scratch with PRO then agree with you. First of all, I'm talking a usual poker competition here in casino `kay?, The newbie and the PRO player has no data in each so definitely no one knows the play style of each other, This could be an advantage for newbie if he knew the play style of the PRO since he can watch his previous game before. All poker player is just paying base on odds and probability so definitely no one have a 100% win rate. The only skills in poker you need to develop is the probability calculation skills and some Psychological skills. You can easily hide your emotions if you wear shade and hoodies just like what other newbies do. 

The level of the excitement that I felt during my first experience playing poker is something that I cannot explain. It is a game of psychology because the strategy that you need to do is base on the other players emotions and gestures. The feeling that I felt in poker is like the feeling that I felt when I was a lvl 1 trader. The excitement and the feeling is unreal because you do not have still enough idea to what you are doing. Luck is also factor in poker but it is better if we have intelligence that will give us a upper hand from other gamblers.

Most of the professionals are doing bluff and most of them are successfully executing it because they have skill where they can read the mind of the other players. For those new gamblers that are playing poker, do not yet try to bluff because professionals can easily identify what you are thinking. There are skills that are required in order to study first in order to go to another level of a poker gambler in order to match the other players skills and knowledge.

yeah, it's a travesty. they killed the best poker software in the world.


also bans USA players.


yup, it certainly worked in bodog/bovada's case. thinner player liquidity, but you get rid of a lot of those nitty rakeback grinders.

in fact that reminds me, i've been meaning to fire up bovada's rebranded USA site (ignition) to see how soft the games are. they support bitcoin deposits/withdrawals and will double your deposit bonus if you use bitcoin.


glad to hear it. i used HM1 back in my semi-pro days and was always happy with it. i'll probably grab HM3 myself. ACR's manual hand history is absolutely killing me.

i'll take a look at those hands when i'm back home. currently on a tiny netbook.

Lol, that's the one I tried. I started by pasting the whole thing in, then tried various versions of excluding parts. Nothing came back with a forum code I could use. I'll play with it more in the future, worst case I have to manually copy it here and edit for usernames and such.