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Topic: PRISM - Who else is disgusted by this? (Read 41153 times)

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
December 11, 2013, 07:49:41 PM
I'm beyond disgusted with this spy nonsense.  It shouldn't even be up for discussion and anyone who thinks it is acceptable should be spied on and targeted for investigation.

I would like to see all data which is collected made public after a time period.  Say 1 quarter.  Exceptions could be granted by a body made up of elected representatives.

This would:

 1) Go a huge distance toward discouraging collection of spurious data.

 2) Allow the small number of collections which are actually used for 'fighting terrorism' or whatever to proceed.

I also believe that it is perfectly reasonable for law abiding citizens to obtain ALL the data contained in their dossier on request.  There are relatively few secrets left about the nature and extent of the surveillance methods used so that argument for keeping secret dossiers on lawful citizens is out the window.

This might have some impact on the capabilities and potentials which our internal intelligence services desire, but in my opinion it is a very reasonable trade-off.  The potential for abuse in a surveillance state is enormous.  It's really not a question about whether this abuse will happen or not...the only question is when.  We in the U.S. are already to far down the road.  I don't think it is an overstatement to say that the life of the nation in it's current form is at significant question unless we go father than simply halting the trend but also back up significantly.

member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
December 11, 2013, 03:54:47 PM
I'm beyond disgusted with this spy nonsense.  It shouldn't even be up for discussion and anyone who thinks it is acceptable should be spied on and targeted for investigation.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
freedomainradio.com
December 09, 2013, 12:58:41 PM
PRISM +1

If you criminal scum and anarchist tards didnt have shit to hide you would not be so butt hurt. Learn to live within the law of the land and prosper by it.
You should kill yourself.
legendary
Activity: 997
Merit: 1002
Gamdom.com
December 09, 2013, 12:49:43 PM
Spy agencies in covert push to infiltrate virtual world of online gaming

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/09/nsa-spies-online-games-world-warcraft-second-life

"The spy agencies have built mass-collection capabilities against the Xbox Live console network, which has more than 48 million players. Real-life agents have been deployed into virtual realms, from those Orc hordes in World of Warcraft to the human avatars of Second Life. There were attempts, too, to recruit potential informants from the games' tech-friendly users".

"Given that gaming consoles often include voice headsets, video cameras, and other identifiers, the potential for joining together biometric information with activities was also an exciting one.
legendary
Activity: 997
Merit: 1002
Gamdom.com
December 09, 2013, 12:25:55 PM
PRISM +1
If you criminal scum and anarchist tards didnt have shit to hide you would not be so butt hurt. Learn to live within the law of the land and prosper by it.
Hey shit-for-brains, if the spy agencies followed the law of the land, they would be allowed to have a global surveillance state.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
December 09, 2013, 10:32:55 AM
Everyone is disgusted but what are we gonna do about it?
full member
Activity: 134
Merit: 100
December 09, 2013, 10:21:55 AM
PRISM +1

If you criminal scum and anarchist tards didnt have shit to hide you would not be so butt hurt. Learn to live within the law of the land and prosper by it.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
December 08, 2013, 12:15:40 PM
NSA gathering 5 billion mobile phone records a day

As if phone tapping wasn't intrusive enough, they are tracking the location over 100,000,000 mobile phones every day by recording which cell towers you connect to. This has got to stop.

Here is a good explination of how you're getting tracked right now.

10th Amendment center comes to the rescue of the 4th Amendment.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/16656-tenth-amendment-center-drafts-model-legislation-to-nullify-the-nsa
hero member
Activity: 698
Merit: 500
5% Bitcoin Discount - All Orders
December 05, 2013, 07:24:29 PM
NSA gathering 5 billion mobile phone records a day

As if phone tapping wasn't intrusive enough, they are tracking the location over 100,000,000 mobile phones every day by recording which cell towers you connect to. This has got to stop.

Here is a good explination of how you're getting tracked right now.
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
October 17, 2013, 10:51:54 AM

So, we will continue to be considered by most people we know to be paranoid extremists, who have something illegal to hide... We'll just do our usual best, with the hope that we can some day become the majority.

I have nothing to hide, but I have a much to protect.
Change is always the result of a radical minority.

There is no reason or need to wish such to be a majority.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
October 17, 2013, 10:50:04 AM

So, we will continue to be considered by most people we know to be paranoid extremists, who have something illegal to hide... We'll just do our usual best, with the hope that we can some day become the majority.

I have nothing to hide, but I have a much to protect.
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
October 17, 2013, 10:47:26 AM
I hope nobody is surprised.

That says it all really.  If you are surprised by this, then you just haven't been paying attention.

There is a certain amount of new stuff in Snowden's material.  More than that, however, a lot of the previously leaked/proposed material had to be taken with a certain degree of skepticism since it was mixed in with other material which was/is likely pure tinfoil-hat.  What Snowden's releases did was provide high quality verifiable information and a lot of it.  Orders of magnitude beyond what any other whistle-blower has done probably in the history of the US.  It was a singularly important event, and even more so due to the engineering of the material's release which has been very professional and highly effective.



The point is, it's irrelevant.  When you look at all the crimes that people in the government commit, all the killing and deliberate destruction in other countries, all the counterfeiting at the Fed, bailouts for bankers.  All these things that if you or I did it we would be sitting in a jail cell, then something like this comes along and it's no surprise to me.  Just more crimes to add on the top of all the existing ones.  

It's actually quite amazing to me that people have kicked up such a fuss about it, considering what's gone on before.  But I put that down to the bad economy.  If things were going great, most people wouldn't have cared much about this and the news cycle would have just moved on without much fanfare.

Facts are that the majority of people desperately want to believe that the govt are there to help.  Like I said, the economy is all most people care about.  If it isn't going well, they will use any excuse to complain to their masters because they don't understand how economics works and so can't grasp the true situation.
Well, no.  Because if we take your reductionist philosophy of "irrelevancy" anything can be justified anytime, anyplace.

That's no different that the whiny libertarians who voted for "hope and change" now saying that "both parties are just as bad".  That's being not a fool once, but twice.  

And here is how the political benefits result from using different attitudes at different times:

hope and change - D +1 R -1
both parties are just as bad - D 0 R 0

The net benefit and the net change in power is D. 

But then, libertarians have always been played for the fool.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 253
October 16, 2013, 12:16:45 AM
I hope nobody is surprised.

That says it all really.  If you are surprised by this, then you just haven't been paying attention.

There is a certain amount of new stuff in Snowden's material.  More than that, however, a lot of the previously leaked/proposed material had to be taken with a certain degree of skepticism since it was mixed in with other material which was/is likely pure tinfoil-hat.  What Snowden's releases did was provide high quality verifiable information and a lot of it.  Orders of magnitude beyond what any other whistle-blower has done probably in the history of the US.  It was a singularly important event, and even more so due to the engineering of the material's release which has been very professional and highly effective.



The point is, it's irrelevant.  When you look at all the crimes that people in the government commit, all the killing and deliberate destruction in other countries, all the counterfeiting at the Fed, bailouts for bankers.  All these things that if you or I did it we would be sitting in a jail cell, then something like this comes along and it's no surprise to me.  Just more crimes to add on the top of all the existing ones. 

It's actually quite amazing to me that people have kicked up such a fuss about it, considering what's gone on before.  But I put that down to the bad economy.  If things were going great, most people wouldn't have cared much about this and the news cycle would have just moved on without much fanfare.

Facts are that the majority of people desperately want to believe that the govt are there to help.  Like I said, the economy is all most people care about.  If it isn't going well, they will use any excuse to complain to their masters because they don't understand how economics works and so can't grasp the true situation.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
October 15, 2013, 09:56:48 PM
I hope nobody is surprised.

That says it all really.  If you are surprised by this, then you just haven't been paying attention.

There is a certain amount of new stuff in Snowden's material.  More than that, however, a lot of the previously leaked/proposed material had to be taken with a certain degree of skepticism since it was mixed in with other material which was/is likely pure tinfoil-hat.  What Snowden's releases did was provide high quality verifiable information and a lot of it.  Orders of magnitude beyond what any other whistle-blower has done probably in the history of the US.  It was a singularly important event, and even more so due to the engineering of the material's release which has been very professional and highly effective.

Lots of people (like myself) who were fairly confident that certain of the surveillance operations were in place due to repeated strengthening of certain hypotheses are still somewhat awestruck to see things laid out as they have been.  I would take a victory lap except that I long ago stopped giving much of a shit about what my more proper straight-laced compadres (like Gavin) think.

sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 253
October 15, 2013, 09:37:57 PM
I hope nobody is surprised.

That says it all really.  If you are surprised by this, then you just haven't been paying attention.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
October 15, 2013, 08:20:21 PM
...
Along these lines, I by happenstance receive a spam mail every few minutes because I've owned my domain for decades.  I also invent a new e-mail address for each different use.  It was not my initial plan to thwart analysis, but it's probably causing a lot of grief for the poor schmuck who pulls me up on his XKeyscore terminal.

  http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/10/14/remarkably-timed-spamouflage/

Hehe.

As I've proposed already, this general technique of garbage overload could be leveraged and ratcheted up as needed to to a crimp in the NSA's pipeline and balloon their storage tanks.  Most of us use a tiny fraction of our bandwidth allotment so there is a giant capacity to utterly swamp the totalitarian surveillance state.

Actually, a spam-house could potentially make some bucks and do something decent for humanity at the same time by selling a service which would inject real messages into their stream of garbage.  For a fee.

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
September 11, 2013, 01:34:02 PM
...
More from PayPal's Levchin:

"Levchin went on to try to explain that the government spy agency is made up of hard-working people trying to help their country. He explains from his own experience,

    “These people are making $40,000 a year. Not because it’s a path to wealth, it’s not a way to get recognized.

    In college I applied to the NSA...."
...

Jesus, what a pathetic wannabe.  I expect that almost none of these guys know who their 'customers' are and from what I've seen are actively discouraged from even speculating about it.  They are the proverbial cog in the wheel.

It does seem that once these guys have reached a certain level they are not discouraged from making a dime off the info.  The 'right' way is as Hayden did.  That is, by use of the revolving door, and Hayden is taking his pay-out in the private sector.  No matter what, it is unacceptable to embarrass the higher-ups like Buzzy Krongard did in shorting American Airlines on 9/10.  He was punished insofar as he didn't get to keep the weenie (or his job) but he never got in any trouble beyond that as best I can tell.

legendary
Activity: 1450
Merit: 1013
Cryptanalyst castrated by his government, 1952
September 11, 2013, 07:54:48 AM
"The NSA Isn’t Evil, It’s Trying To Protect Us, Says PayPal’s Max Levchin", article from TechCrunch: http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/10/nsa-evil/

From the article's author, Josh Constine (bolding mine):

"He has a point. What the NSA is doing may be evil, but the organization as a whole isn’t, necessarily. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t question why this snooping is necessary, and it doesn’t mean we should protest and demand change, but we shouldn’t blindly hate the NSA."

Freudian slip or just a typo? No way to know.

More from PayPal's Levchin:

"Levchin went on to try to explain that the government spy agency is made up of hard-working people trying to help their country. He explains from his own experience,

    “These people are making $40,000 a year. Not because it’s a path to wealth, it’s not a way to get recognized.

    In college I applied to the NSA...."

I imagine there will be a lot of "it's not so baaaad" damage-control rhetoric coming our way.

Frankly, I don't care about the debate over whether an organization "is evil" or whether the people in it "are evil". I just want them to stop doing evil things, especially any organizations that do evil things "in my name" or "on my behalf". I'm not American, but my country (all countries) seem to have such organizations. The NSA just happens to be in the spotlight recently.






legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
September 10, 2013, 09:24:53 PM
.... It makes no sense to claim that the methods will be compromised by a full transcript release given that the government has already made it known that they (or someone) can do the intercepts.  Likely the big problem here is that it is not going to go over well if it is know that edited (if not invented) material, probably from Mossad, is being stove-piped directly to the executive branch.  Again.


a hint...

pipelines...
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1003
September 10, 2013, 05:22:38 PM
And whats up with all the pacifist discussion that America doesnt need another war?
Its about time for another 9/11.
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