Topic: Proof of Stake Investment - HBN/PHS/TEK/CAP and more (Read 15444 times)

I reposted here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8608033
We'll see how it will go.

I agree, would also love an update as well

Would love an update. With tokyoghetto's journal locked, the high PoS discussion is a little light lately

So, I had another thought. And call me crazy, but I'm going to throw it out there. What about a POS coin with demurrage.

The "problem" with POS coins: "inflation." Everyone wants high stake, but wants to control inflation. So we set a max coin cap, or we decrease the stake percentage over time to some eventual minimal inflation.

However, the attraction of the POS coin is that you can earn high %. But when that goes away the excitement is gone many seek greener pastures and newer coins with newer features.

That's where demurrage comes in, or negative stake (nstake). A coin could always offer high positive stake (pstake) because it will never suffer from inflation due to its nstake. The theory is that the nstake has a flag that is set when a number of coins is reached and increases to slow the pstake. Once a second coin point is reach nstake is increased above pstake to bring the coins down. It is a hysteresis effect to avoid market shock. There would be an ebb and flow around a soft coin cap chosen by the dev team.

Such a coin would have to have two stake ages computed: nstake age and pstake age. Nstake age would have to be faster than pstake age to hit every wallet - something like 6 hours. While pstake age would be longer: a day, 3 days, whatever.

In theory the coins would congregate to the clients that spend the most time staking. In other words the network would pay the nodes that do the most work for it by securing it.

Example coin:
POW coins: 0.5 mil
Minimum Coins: 1 mil
Maximum Coins: 2 mil
PStake: 100% @ 7 days
NStakeMax = 115%
NStake= ncoins/maxcoins * 100%
if(ncoins>0.7*max coins){
do{nstake= nstakemax}
while (ncoins>mincoins)
}

Assuming EVERYONE stakes - not likely, but a possibility
Year 0: 0.5 mil coins; nstake = 25% ; effective stake w/ compounding = 111%
Year 1: 1.05 mil coins; nstake = 53% ; effective stake w/ compounding = 60%
Year 2: 1.68 mil coins; nstake = 84% ; effective stake w/ compounding = 17%
Year 3: 1.44 mil coins; nstake = 115% ; effective stake w/ compounding = -15%
Year 4: 1.24 mil coins; nstake = 115% ; effective stake w/ compounding = -15%
Year 5: 1.06 mil coins; nstake = 115% ; effective stake w/ compounding = -15%
Year 6: 1.05 mil coins; nstake = 53% ; effective stake w/ compounding = 60%

That is only one example. You could change the nstake curve to increase the number of years a coin stakes with positive interest. And you could also increase the NStakeMax percentage to decrease the number of years of contraction - of course that may be more of a shock. 

Lots of variables to play with. If nothing else, it could be a fun experiment.

HYPER is still looking good and they are running a distribution so anyone can get earn some HYPER and start staking them at 5% monthly interest every day! https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-hyper-distribution-no-ipo-no-bs-claim-your-share-of-hyper-today-695339

A note on SYNC...

The dev has decided to change the POS on the coin.
Now it will be 100% halving every month!!!
So in just a few months we will not have a good coin for POS.

When I found it I considered it a gem of a coin. Equal to the old guard. Now...it is nothing from a POS stand point - and I'm a little upset.

Just click the staking icon (Green arrow pointing up)...

...At last the student gets a change to teach the master something 

I would definitely look into HYP.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hyp-hyperstake-generous-reward-staking-advanced-staking-controls-wallet-678849

It will be fun to see how the coin performs.

I personally wonder how the coin count will compare to actual mining.
Of course it isn't investment. Just a fun look at code and dynamics.

Tranz how did you get that dialog to pop up?

Keep up the good work here StakeHunter. I would invite everyone to also give my latest project HyperStake out. It isn't meant to be some profit making beast coin (although some might see it that way) it is meant to be something fun for the high stake rate community.  ANN thread is in my signature.

Also sad to see CAP getting so low again. There was a major whale that got the price so high to begin with though.

I have been using using multi wallets and stakeforcharity(s4c) for quite a while now. It has been working very nicely.



To test stakeforcharity you can just create a new wallet and send a percentage of your stake to that wallet and see how it acts. You can accumulate some coins there and then send them off to trade, or buy stuff.  You can INCREASE 2 positions at once automatically with even a small amount, since s4c only allows 50% of your reward to be sent.  

You can also use coin control to choose which blocks to send.

My thought is to compound all until january and then start to take profits out of generated pos.
with compounding and continous input from mining farm for 6months, it should be selfsustaining by then?
my plans are longterm, and iknow its risky :-)
Thnx for your inputs :-)

A note about SUPER though - it appears to be in a free fall - so you may want to wait to put money into it to see what happens.

With larger blocks you have a greater probability of staking earlier.

I have HBN, TEK, and PHS.
I think CAP will due well - go up, but its volume is still minimal.

But I also recommend: SUPER & SYNC.
Both have 100% PoS.

Thnx for reply :-)
hbn is one of my prioritys in pos.
how do you think cap will do now?
seems like the most pos holders have hbn,tek,phs as a base portifolio, i am buying some everyday from my mining income and plan to build a portifolio over the next months.
What other coins should be in the base portifolio, and what others would you consider as promising?
Maybe answear to this is to see what you are holding, mentioned somewhere :-)
what is the benefit to keep coins in blocks of the zise you mentioned? 10k for hbn, insted of multiple smaller.
Thnx for your effort to get more knowledge out on this!

Another POS coin you may not be aware of is Truckcoin that was released last month. Returns 5% every 9 days, or 200%/yr. Released with near zero publicity and going really cheap at the moment. I'm liking it as a pair trade with CAP that also goes 200% tomorrow only it's a lot cheaper and already staking.

I also agree on HBN and TEK, great time for someone to start building a position in these.

I thought someone else might help, but I guess not...

On most, I only have one wallet for each coin. Encrypted, but unlocked in order to stake - as outlined on the hobonickels wiki.

I usually don't send all the coins when I'm collecting stake. It all depends upon the size of the stake and the coin block.
HBN I keep coins in 10K blocks
TEK 3K blocks

Speaking of those two HBN has really fallen recently and considering its stability (from a dev point of view) it should be considered a buy.

TEK has also fallen from its highs, but not as deeply as HBN.

Hi!
been reading your thread on POS investment and have some questions.
do you have 1 wallet each coin, or split some over multiple wallets?
do you send all coins in 1 transaction, or split them in groups into wallet?
trying to build my own prtifolio based on your inputs and are in this for longterm.
hoping you have some time to share strategies, and provide more knowledge in this exiting topic! :-)
regards

I was more looking for how you derived that 25% stake overtakes the risk assumed by holding a PoS coin and selling at highs and staking at lows. You just gave me the effective interest rate of a nominal interest rate compounded n-thly.

Whenever I've looked at staking via a market perspective, I look at it as akin to a derivative pricing model so that's what my request was more geared towards. So if someone places bands at upper and lower options, I could take the partial derivative (i.e. kinda like in Black-Scholes fashion) of [δσ/δt-(1/(σ(T-t))][(r/σ^2)] where σ is compounded volatility, t is the starting time of staking, T is the time where stake is sold, and r is the given effective interest rate, and look for where the intersect between perceived risk and reward lies. When I've priced using "slower" models, I get stake at 15% being reasonable to overtake the assumed risk. For "faster" models, this drops slightly to 12%.

Could you expound on your methodology for showing that 25% is the point where risk and reward meet?

I agree completely about risk. That's why I've stated many times in my posts that this is a risky plan and only with money you can stand to lose.
But I do it.



See my previous post about compounding interest with the formula.

coins * (1+Yearly Stake %/period)^period

If you have stake at one month and you have 25% stake you get roughly ~27 coins. Not great, but better than 25... And anything lower will only give you the stake percentage. The higher the stake and the shorter the period the better the compounding.