Topic: Proof of Stake Investment - HBN/PHS/TEK/CAP and more - page 2. (Read 15540 times)

I do agree that holding coins for stake is implicitly a risky business due to the nature of volatility in the crypto-currency scene being doubly compounded by the amount of time needed to create stake.

I am curious how you derived 25% as your set point. If you are willing, could you share your mathematical rigor behind this?

Will try to find a way to do that

I aim to please.
Please do post a link here when/if you post on cryptoarticles.

I LOVE YOU

Good day fellow stake enthusiasts,

As promised I'm here to discuss the new crop of stake coins that have popped up over the last few months - and there are a lot of them. However, before I do that, I want discuss where we've come from…

Proof of stake, the long misunderstood and often maligned counterpart to proof of work. Proof of work - we all know it as mining - you get coins for securing the network by cracking crypto. It is expensive in terms of hardware and energy. Proof of stake - you get coins for holding coins in your wallet for a certain period of time. You secure the network by ensuring no one will hold the majority of the coins, and you're rewarded for it. Proof of stake - anyone with a wallet can do it, it is cheap, and energy efficient, but you don't paid as well as if you mine.

In my opinion Stake has A LOT of advantages over mining. Mostly because you have fine control over the money you're putting into crypto - no hardware, upkeep, etc - only coins. But that's me.

Stake began with Peercoin - a minimal percentage ~1% to reward people for holding a coin. After that Novacoin (NVC) came along and demonstrated the power of stake. It had 100% a year stake - if you held 100 coins, next year you would have 200 next year (not including compounding). That's amazing! And it developed controls for inflation by limiting the percentage based upon the coins being held for stake on the market.

These progenitors gave birth to a number of other coins that provided stake: TEKcoin, Bottlecaps, Hobonickels, Neocoin, Cosmoscoin, Galaxycoin, Diamond, Philosopherstone, and Growthcoin. However, getting the stake code right proved to be difficult, and for many of the coins listed stake simply didn't work. And as usually happens in crypto, crowds are fickle and coins are kicked to the side.

Of these coins only TEKcoin (TEK), Hobonickels (HBN), Philosopherstone (PHS), and Growthcoin (GRW) got stake right. And HBN and PHS were the strongest due to their active devs and community. TEK, even with its amazing stake was largely ignored due to lack of development and the appearance of newer scrypt coins.

For months I, and other stake lovers, touted holding on to NVC, HBN, PHS, and TEK. We saw, ups and downs and ups. We sold stake at the highs and compounded during the lows. With good stake coins, if you're willing to put the money down you can buy a golden goose.

Then suddenly the next generation of stake coins came along. Driven by the looming power bills of summer and the possibility of scrypt ASICs this new crop was all about "fast distribution" and "energy efficiency" (due to stake). The most famous are Blackcoin & Mintcoin. Blackcoin was eligble for stake after 8 hours. Mintcoin had stake that lowered from year to year. However, from a stake standpoint there was a large problem with each coin: their stake was 25% or less.

These coins didn't learn any lessons from peercoin. No one holds peercoin for stake because the price will swing too much and destroy any gains made from stake. All coins are volatile, likely to swing 5% or more in a day, and 20% is more likely. Holding coins for stake is risky business and if you're looking to make any returns the compensation should match the risk.

If you're going to hold coins for stake the coin should have a stake greater than 25%. If the coin has good devs and a decent community, it is possible that you will get a return on your investment. Another note about 25% - it is also the point where you can actually see the benefits of compounding interest.      

Of this 3rd generation of stake coins, only one was worth mentioning: Fluttercoin. It had a strong launch, a good developer, and it is stake is 100% based upon the Novacoin model of depreciation.  

Then, scrypt ASICs appeared on the scene - difficulty skyrockets, and this drives development of new coins. We get new algorithms Scrypt-n, X11, X13, and more.  And another coin fad gets thrown into the mix: anonymity. Now we get another set of coins with new algos focusing on new and wonderful anonymity features. And with the new coins, we get another set of coins that - because Blackcoin was in some ways successful - copy and paste its gimmick stake features. Again there are too many to mention: Vericoin, Cryptcoin, Cloakcoin, Cinnicoin, XC, and on and on. All are eligible for stake at one day or less, and all with stake less than 10%. Fellow stake lovers: DON'T DO IT! You'll never get your investment back.

However, with the new generation of coins we get a few hopefuls: Supercoin and Sync. Supercoin has anonymity features, a lot of volume, and for the first year 100% stake. Sync has the same dev as Voot, but Sync only launched with 1000 coins. Sync doesn't have the volume, but it does have 100% stake - for the life of the coin, and Sync claims to be adding anonymity features.

Also, Hyper was part of this generation and it does have 50% stake, however the coin has a lot of issues due to poor launch. The dev team holds a lot of pre-mine, which is all eligible for stake, so they drive the market, and I cannot recommend it.

But that isn't all stake lovers. There are a number of second generation coins that are being given a re-birth thanks to competent devs that are taking them over. Growthcoin (GRW) and Bottlecaps (CAP) are worthy of notice. CAP is now being managed by the dev of HBN. GRW offers 100% stake while CAP has 200%. Neither has a lot of volume, but even small portfolios could provide future returns.

Diamond has a new life as well, and the devs say there will be 50% stake. However, I have yet to verify this with my own wallet.    

Finally, there is Noblecoin - the coin with a noble heart. I like the concept of the coin, but it has been plagued with issues due to 51% attacks. However, it too will be seeing new life. Its devs are working on turning it into a stake coin, and I have faith that it will be one worth putting "on the list."

So, with the brief history behind us, where do I stand with my own list? What are the stake coins that I am holding?

TEKcoin - TEK - 40% monthly
Bottlecaps -CAP - 200% yearly, stake @ 15 days
Hobonickels - HBN - 100% yearly, stake @ 10 days
Growthcoin - GRW - 100% yearly, stake @ 5 days
Fluttercoin - FLT - 100% yearly, stake @ 30 days
Supercoin - SUPER - 100% yearly, stake @ 1 day
Sync - SYNC - 100% yearly, stake @ 1 day
Philosopherstones - PHS - 50% yearly, stake @ 5 days
Diamond - DMD - 50% yearly, stake @ 30 days - not verified
Novacoin - NVC - ~35% yearly, stake @ 30 days - small holding
Noblecoin - NOBL - at risk holding expecting stake

Everything else - not worth it! I'm not a day trader, and I'm not a pump and dumper. I don't know who will win the battle of algo, features, and popularity. I'll collect stake and hold BTC and wait until the dust settles.  

If you found this helpful, please consider donating BTC to help build my stake fund: 1PSQDbg8om94wnGRiWxW9UG7RRxFMygqN9

Very interesting thread!

One question I have though - what do you see happening to the coins when they hit their maximum count so that no more coins are available. I'm guessing that they can no longer claim to be PoS and can no longer be mined using PoW... so investors will rely on nothing more than values on the exchanges?

Stakehunter I highly recommend considering adding HYPER to your list. The 5% monthly (60% annually) PoS coin has gone up 300% in the last 2 days and is trading steady (not just another pump).

HYPER is also getting over 1000 real human votes every 24 hours to get added to MintPal and once it gets to the top of the list and is added volume will explode. They've also recently resurrected an MMO strategy space game classic (that anyone can play now) and they are working on adding HYPER to the in-built free market exchange that already exists in the game, for players to trade resources and money with each other

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-hyper-game-currency-mmos-poker-20-serversshapeshiftio-rpg-more-624651

Ill make sure you get credit

What's it worth to you?  

Seriously... I only invest in coins with 25%+, and I hold all of them that I know of. So the update should be all of them. Again the caveat being - that I know of. I do my research but there are A LOT of coins.

I do expect literary credit in any article with my info that appears your site though.  

This isbperfect to hear, but can you also make a list of coins with +25% yearly stake? Thanks

All,

I am working on a short write-up concerning the "new generation" of stake coins.
Yes there are many that use stake as a gimmick, but there are a few that may be worth consideration.

The new breed has a lot more volume, but the old guard has stability...time will tell. More to follow. 

Just a note on the crop of new stake coins...or should I call them gimmicks
It seems every new coin and its brother has been launched with Stake with a min stake of a day or less. However...

NO COIN WITH STAKE <25% IS EVER WORTH BUYING JUST FOR STAKE.

Do the math: coins * (1+Yearly Stake %/365)^365

Yes there are coins with a stake period of under a day, but it is most likely that your stake will take longer because of the network so staking oce a day is conservative. If you do the compounding math, the 25% mark is where you actually start to see the benefits. So all those coins where stake is 10% or less compounding every 6 to 8 hours...at the end of the year you will have your coins plus that 10% or less.

NOT WORTH IT...Especially when the coin price fluctuates so much. So, buy into a coin if you think it will explode, but don't count on the stake to help you out.

If you want ~10% a year returns - invest in ETF and CEFs on the stock market. Far more credible, liquid, and safe comparably.
I recommend the following: NCV, EAD, IGD, FAM, HIX

Yes, but just a rough estimate and based upon your risk profile. Basically look at the market cap and the trade volume.
If you dump even 1 BTC into TEK/HBN/PHS/CAP/GRW/DMD you are going to swing the market.
TEK & HBN are strongest of the two so you will be able to get your money back easier. CAP is on the rise.

FLT has deeper pockets, but it has been on the downward slope, so beware. 

My rough guide is 1% of the current marketcap. So if HBN has 4.9 mil, you could easily swing/use 49 thousand. 

Stake,

Is there a good ballpark as to what your cap should be with some of these coins?  In other words, is there a such thing as having too many coins in a particular coin?

24/7?
needs good security i asume :-)

Nope just leave the wallet open.

Don't know SIM...
But NEM is too much like NXT. I'm jumping on with any coin that distributes through IPO.

I've learned my lesson from Cryptostocks and I'm pulling most on my investments from there.

 

trying to learn here, to get my stake, will i need to do anything else than open the wallet?
have seen some info about editing a conf file?
thnx for interesting stuff :-)

Proof of Stake Investment - NVC/HBN/PHS/TEK/and more


Why you don't say a word about SIM? It
OR NEM as POI (Proof of INTEREST)?

Thanks. How does the PoT works for FLT?