Proof of stake mining of bicoin - page 11.

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: Daedelus on December 27, 2014, 09:06:57 PM

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 09:02:34 PM

Quote from: Daedelus on December 27, 2014, 08:59:00 PM

Ok, I'll put you down for the day after 28th Feb. Far too early if you ask me...

I never new POS was unforkable too. That's why I like these threads with all the smart guys in, it is eye opening.

PoS already exists. Buy all you want. Nobody cares but you.

I don't follow. The 'Hunger Games' argument is only possible because POS is unforkable, right? How does me buying anything relate to this?

Ur post seems off topic. Don't worry, I won't report you Wink

Uh...no. Anything open source is forkable.

The 'Hunger Games' argument is about permanent centralization of authority.
Yes, we could always fork, but why go down the path of centralization
based on stakes at all?

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: Daedelus on December 27, 2014, 09:09:49 PM

Yes, guilty. Sorry, maybe I should put something in my sig

Nothing to be ashamed of and nothing you need to place in your sig. PoS proponents actually do have some valid criticisms of Bitcoin.
IMHO these aren't insurmountable. You picked that horse and can choose to cut your losses and come back whenever you want.
We will have open arms and a cup of warm tea ready(heated by asics of course).
Kiss

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

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Yes, guilty. Sorry, maybe I should put something in my sig

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: Daedelus on December 27, 2014, 08:51:05 PM

So some people argue the switch to POS will be end of 2015 and others are saying mid 2016. There are good arguments on both sides. I don't know but I would bet end 2016.

Do we need a vote to settle this once and for all?..

I don't gamble, or trust any prediction market service either , but think your expectations are extremely "optimistic".

Bitcoin will either never change to PoS or such a change won't occur till 2024 and beyond.

I suggest you gamble all you want with PoS. Seem like you are a Nxt proponent.... that currency is dying right now if you haven't noticed. Dropped from spot 5 to 8 in market cap and soon to be overtaken by Bitcoin assets like Counterparty! Ethereum, Counterparty and possibly Storj will likely overtake Nxt in 2016, expect it will drop further in market cap.

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 09:02:34 PM

Quote from: Daedelus on December 27, 2014, 08:59:00 PM

Ok, I'll put you down for the day after 28th Feb. Far too early if you ask me...

I never new POS was unforkable too. That's why I like these threads with all the smart guys in, it is eye opening.

PoS already exists. Buy all you want. Nobody cares but you.

I don't follow. The 'Hunger Games' argument is only possible because POS is unforkable, right? How does me buying anything relate to this?

Ur post seems off topic. Don't worry, I won't report you Wink

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: Daedelus on December 27, 2014, 08:59:00 PM

Ok, I'll put you down for the day after 28th Feb. Far too early if you ask me...

I never new POS was unforkable too. That's why I like these threads with all the smart guys in, it is eye opening.

PoS already exists. Buy all you want. Nobody cares but you.

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Ok, I'll put you down for the day after 28th Feb. Far too early if you ask me...

I never new POS was unforkable too. That's why I like these threads with all the smart guys in, it is eye opening.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

February 29, 2015. Grin

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

So some people argue the switch to POS will be end of 2015 and others are saying mid 2016. There are good arguments on both sides. I don't know but I would bet end 2016.

Do we need a vote to settle this once and for all?..

cryptogeeknext

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Bitcoin trolls back

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 27, 2014, 06:53:01 PM

Quote from: cryptogeeknext on December 27, 2014, 06:51:01 PM

I think people are forgetting one simple fact about PoS, it saturates.

It means that even if all people on the planet are given equal amount of coins in a PoS system, the competition will make some of them richer and others poorer. At some point a group of wealthiest stakeholders will maintain the majority vote in the system. No one can outrun their blockchain. That's where Snake awaits them with the offer they can't refuse.

The wealthiest few will be approached individually with a choice - rule with us or be ruled over. Thus inner circle of control is completed and the system becomes a private enterprise. That's when zoo cages are closed and the hunger games can begin. People are brainwashed enough to not see the cage for all the food. I mean it's not called Proof of Snake for no reason.

PoW stays in PoWer Cheesy

Very compelling argument. Can we end the thread now?

Sure.
Honey BTCadger eats $nakes for breakfast, people seem to forget:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 27, 2014, 07:50:55 PM

I think much of Vitalik's work is helpful and fascinating but I would bet upon bitcoin and oracles handling complex code more efficiently as Gavin makes a fair observation above.

What you call oracles, I call social constructs. I agree. They will evolve organically. Complex technologies must be modular and based on simpler, more adaptable mechanisms. That's why Bitcoin shines. I still think someone needs to find a way to make transaction malleability a useful tool. The design is elegant and the exploit shows its undeveloped versatility as metadata. Developing such a tool would flood out attackers.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 07:36:08 PM

So WTH were ethers for?

Well, that's a very big conversation. I can assure you there is technological merit to ether and important use cases. Obviously, since there was a crowdfunded ICO this was a partially premined PoW coin.

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 07:36:08 PM

Well, if a better PoW comes along, then Bitcoin can adapt it.

I am not so sure about that. For the best or worst there is some deeply entrenched interests and it is doubtful that the main consensus mechanism is likely to change for Bitcoin.

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 07:36:08 PM

I try to listen to Buterin, but while he understands the mechanics of these technologies, his ideology is inconsistent. That's just his youth and I don't hold it against him personally, but until you have the kind of resolve Satoshi has, you cannot be truly innovative.

If you have been following his thought processes and papers he actually has been really consistent about testing and formulating different consensus mechanisms. The reasons why it seems like he has been inconsistent is because he was doing what he is paid to do and research different algos as chief scientist in a thorough and neutral manner whether it is DPoS/TaPos or PoW.

If you fear the threat of innovation from Ethereum and don't have the time to read through Vitalik's long papers than I would just summarize that Bitcoin could handle some of the features and abilities that Ethereum will handle with sidechains and oracles --
http://gavintech.blogspot.com/2014/06/bit-thereum.html

I think much of Vitalik's work is helpful and fascinating but I would bet upon bitcoin and oracles handling complex code more efficiently as Gavin makes a fair observation above.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 27, 2014, 07:16:55 PM

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 07:09:02 PM

With all the hundreds of altcoins who can keep them straight? Many of them are hybrids but lean toward PoS. Ethereum waffles but will probably be PoS. I should have looked up the names rather than pull them out of memory, but this topic makes me weary. I prefer to let the market decide.

Fair enough, but Ethereum is going to be PoW:

Ethereum will be a hashimoto dagger IO bound PoW consensus mechanism.
The latest under review is here under PoC7:

https://github.com/ethereum/cpp-ethereum/wiki
http://gavwood.com/Paper.pdf

So WTH were ethers for? Well, if a better PoW comes along, then Bitcoin can adapt it. I try to listen to Buterin, but while he understands the mechanics of these technologies, his ideology is inconsistent. That's just his youth and I don't hold it against him personally, but until you have the kind of resolve Satoshi has, you cannot be truly innovative.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 07:09:02 PM

With all the hundreds of altcoins who can keep them straight? Many of them are hybrids but lean toward PoS. Ethereum waffles but will probably be PoS. I should have looked up the names rather than pull them out of memory, but this topic makes me weary. I prefer to let the market decide.

Fair enough, but Ethereum is going to be PoW:

Ethereum will be a hashimoto dagger IO bound PoW consensus mechanism.
The latest under review is here under PoC7:

https://github.com/ethereum/cpp-ethereum/wiki
http://gavwood.com/Paper.pdf

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 27, 2014, 01:36:42 PM

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 10:49:23 AM

Right. And by the same token PoS absolutely require fancy names like Monero, Ethereum, and Peercoin, and heavy marketing to succeed. Marketing a PoW like Doge gets notoriety, but the notion of actual work kills the romance. Ultimately, future PoS coins will be premined (or pre minted, or pre birthed or whatever) by whatever corporations can afford the best advertising.

I understand the point you are trying to make but you are doing so in the worst possible way by suggesting all those coins are PoS.
Ethereum will be PoW.
Monero is PoW
Peercoin is PoW/PoS
Out of all the examples given you just had to use the few PoW examples which invalidated your argument ?

With all the hundreds of altcoins who can keep them straight? Many of them are hybrids but lean toward PoS. Ethereum waffles but will probably be PoS. I should have looked up the names rather than pull them out of memory, but this topic makes me weary. I prefer to let the market decide.

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: cryptogeeknext on December 27, 2014, 06:51:01 PM

I think people are forgetting one simple fact about PoS, it saturates.

It means that even if all people on the planet are given equal amount of coins in a PoS system, the competition will make some of them richer and others poorer. At some point a group of wealthiest stakeholders will maintain the majority vote in the system. No one can outrun their blockchain. That's where Snake awaits them with the offer they can't refuse.

The wealthiest few will be approached individually with a choice - rule with us or be ruled over. Thus inner circle of control is completed and the system becomes a private enterprise. That's when zoo cages are closed and the hunger games can begin. People are brainwashed enough to not see the cage for all the food. I mean it's not called Proof of Snake for no reason.

PoW stays in PoWer Cheesy

Very compelling argument. Can we end the thread now?

cryptogeeknext

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Bitcoin trolls back

I think people are forgetting one simple fact about PoS, it saturates.

It means that even if all people on the planet are given equal amount of coins in a PoS system, the competition will make some of them richer and others poorer. At some point a group of wealthiest stakeholders will maintain the majority vote in the system. No one can outrun their blockchain. That's where Snake awaits them with the offer they can't refuse.

The wealthiest few will be approached individually with a choice - rule with us or be ruled over. Thus inner circle of control is completed and the system becomes a private enterprise. That's when zoo cages are closed and the hunger games can begin. People are brainwashed enough to not see the cage for all the food. I mean it's not called Proof of Snake for no reason.

PoW stays in PoWer Cheesy

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

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Newbie

Quote from: J. J. Phillips on December 27, 2014, 03:12:31 PM

I think this thread should be moved to "Bicoin Discussion."

Taking into account your signature:

I don't think this thread shouldn't be removed from "Bitcoin Discussion".

Right?

J. J. Phillips

hero member

Activity: 518

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Islam and Nazism are belief systems, not races.

I think this thread should be moved to "Bicoin Discussion."

inBitweTrust

hero member

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Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 10:49:23 AM

Right. And by the same token PoS absolutely require fancy names like Monero, Ethereum, and Peercoin, and heavy marketing to succeed. Marketing a PoW like Doge gets notoriety, but the notion of actual work kills the romance. Ultimately, future PoS coins will be premined (or pre minted, or pre birthed or whatever) by whatever corporations can afford the best advertising.

I understand the point you are trying to make but you are doing so in the worst possible way by suggesting all those coins are PoS.
Ethereum will be PoW.
Monero is PoW
Peercoin is PoW/PoS
Out of all the examples given you just had to use the few PoW examples which invalidated your argument ?

Topic: Proof of stake mining of bicoin - page 11. (Read 25670 times)