I would summarize things as follows:
Given the same distribution (issuance),
the energy cost is going to be same no matter what
scheme you use, but PoW is the simplest, most
proven, and arguably the most fair.
Topic: Proof of stake mining of bicoin - page 13. (Read 25676 times)
legendary
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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
DPOS makes the blockchain a lot more like a company than the wild west free-for-all of mining/forging that PoW/PoS entails. Block producers are not determined by the stake they own, they're determined by their reputation and trustworthiness in the community, and what they can offer in return for their block production (development, marketing, etc.). Like a mix between NXT and ripple if ripple labs was decentralized and run on the blockchain.
DPOS and Nxt are two variations of PoS. The D in DPoS is a similar idea to the Economic Clusters in Nxt but different in implementation.
You haven't heard? Ethereum is going to be PoW. BitShares is DPoS , not PoS. Nxt is slowly dying and losing place to PoW and Debt based currencies.
There is no fundamental difference between DPoS and PoS.
Regarding Ethereum, here is the latest news - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPsCGvXyrP4. It says that Ethereum will be PoS.
DPOS makes the blockchain a lot more like a company than the wild west free-for-all of mining/forging that PoW/PoS entails. Block producers are not determined by the stake they own, they're determined by their reputation and trustworthiness in the community, and what they can offer in return for their block production (development, marketing, etc.). Like a mix between NXT and ripple if ripple labs was decentralized and run on the blockchain.
You haven't heard? Ethereum is going to be PoW. BitShares is DPoS , not PoS. Nxt is slowly dying and losing place to PoW and Debt based currencies.
There is no fundamental difference between DPoS and PoS.
Regarding Ethereum, here is the latest news - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPsCGvXyrP4. It says that Ethereum will be PoS.
DPOS makes the blockchain a lot more like a company than the wild west free-for-all of mining/forging that PoW/PoS entails. Block producers are not determined by the stake they own, they're determined by their reputation and trustworthiness in the community, and what they can offer in return for their block production (development, marketing, etc.). Like a mix between NXT and ripple if ripple labs was decentralized and run on the blockchain.
When Satoshi finished writing bitcoin and created the genesis block he created a legacy that grows with each miner added. Whomever creates a really cool PoS will have his code cloned and issued by someone with no interest in the coder. That coder will be forgotten because there is no hardware binding users to the genesis block. Why are VCs dumping so much money into work that will be stolen and changed to someone else's advantage?
This sounds like the majority of alt and clone coins nowadays. As long as you have a fancy name and slick graphics (and a lemming-esque userbase) you are golden.
One of several great things about 100% PoW is that it isn't ideal as a scam/ponzi/P&D coin because distribution is open to anyone doing the work, is expensive and any weak PoW currencies who don't capture the interest of the public with true innovation quickly get attacked because they don't have the mining hashrate to sustain against an aggressor.
You can easily spot a scammy PoW coin by it having a extremely sharp rather than gradual distribution curve - I.E... Quark.
This sounds like the majority of alt and clone coins nowadays. As long as you have a fancy name and slick graphics (and a lemming-esque userbase) you are golden.
One of several great things about 100% PoW is that it isn't ideal as a scam/ponzi/P&D coin because distribution is open to anyone doing the work, is expensive and any weak PoW currencies who don't capture the interest of the public with true innovation quickly get attacked because they don't have the mining hashrate to sustain against an aggressor.
You can easily spot a scammy PoW coin by it having a extremely sharp rather than gradual distribution curve - I.E... Quark.
... it wasn't
just some dudes high on a hill somewhere declaring
they invented a currency and saying everyone should
go use it.
just some dudes high on a hill somewhere declaring
they invented a currency and saying everyone should
go use it.
This sounds like the majority of alt and clone coins nowadays. As long as you have a fancy name and slick graphics (and a lemming-esque userbase) you are golden.
As long as people openly and honestly discuss these ideas and use these tools without misrepresentations
or by positing assumptions as facts than there is no problem with them co-existing and flourishing.
or by positing assumptions as facts than there is no problem with them co-existing and flourishing.
No need to insult cbeast, he is a legendary donator.
So you are ok with DPOS and Etheruem?
I like competition and the free proliferation of ideas so why wouldn't I be ok with them?
As long as people openly and honestly discuss these ideas and use these tools without misrepresentations
or by positing assumptions as facts than there is no problem with them co-existing and flourishing.
Anyway, every new days brings more and more PoS coins.
Wouldn't that be expected being that PoS has a very suitable security model for new coins without many participants.
Expect many more variations of PoS to pop into existence, with most of them being pump and dump schemes with little
technical innovation or development talent ....*ahem* paycoin2
No, you may want to re-watch it.
Ok, my bad, I don't comprehend spoken English so I just read the video description. Anyway, every new days brings more and more PoS coins.
Additionally, there are tremendous differences between PoS and DPoS. NxT and Bitshares have a different security model and concerns. Nxt is slowly evolving to TaPoS model of security which is still much different that DPoS.
So you are ok with DPOS and Etheruem?
You haven't heard? Ethereum is going to be PoW. BitShares is DPoS , not PoS. Nxt is slowly dying and losing place to PoW and Debt based currencies.
There is no fundamental difference between DPoS and PoS.
Regarding Ethereum, here is the latest news - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPsCGvXyrP4. It says that Ethereum will be PoS.
No, you may want to re-watch it. More specifically, Ethereum will be a hashimoto dagger IO bound PoW consensus mechanism.
The latest under review is here under PoC7:
https://github.com/ethereum/cpp-ethereum/wiki
http://gavwood.com/Paper.pdf
Yes, I agree it is confusing being that Vitalik has gone back in forth between slasher and dagger and the fact that he may eventually switch from PoW to a weak subjectivity TaPoS slasher algo, but for the time being and for distribution it is ASIC resistant PoW.
Read the paper above to verify that it is indeed PoW.
Additionally, there are tremendous differences between PoS and DPoS. NxT and Bitshares have a different security model and concerns. Nxt is slowly evolving to TaPoS model of security which is still much different that DPoS.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
You haven't heard? Ethereum is going to be PoW. BitShares is DPoS , not PoS. Nxt is slowly dying and losing place to PoW and Debt based currencies.
Out of the 3, Ethereum clearly is the only one in an uptrend on the 365 day chart.
You haven't heard? Ethereum is going to be PoW. BitShares is DPoS , not PoS. Nxt is slowly dying and losing place to PoW and Debt based currencies.
There is no fundamental difference between DPoS and PoS.
Regarding Ethereum, here is the latest news - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPsCGvXyrP4. It says that Ethereum will be PoS.
You don't have enough data to know if transaction fees need to increase or bitcoin needs to change its security model to sustain itself.
Technically you are right, let's put on hold this discussion and come back to it when we have more info.
How about you focus on making Nxt all that it is claimed to be instead of rehashing old arguments over and over?
I'm not motivated enough for that. Being a mercenary I did everything I was supposed to do and then quited Nxt core team.
You shouldn't have said this. Basically your phrase means "You won because I'm out of counterarguments."
I have my standards.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
You overlook an obvious thing:
Transaction fee will increase to compensate subsidy decline. One way or another Bitcoin holders will be paying tithing for burned electricity. The only alternarive is to stop sending transactions but in this case the transaction fees will just go higher.
Transaction fee will increase to compensate subsidy decline. One way or another Bitcoin holders will be paying tithing for burned electricity. The only alternarive is to stop sending transactions but in this case the transaction fees will just go higher.
Not necessarily so if transaction volume can sustain security. You don't have enough data to know if transaction fees need to increase or bitcoin needs to change its security model to sustain itself. We will cross that road when it needs to be taken. You have a sense of desperation in the need for bitcoin to switch to PoS for some odd reason. How about you focus on making Nxt all that it is claimed to be instead of rehashing old arguments over and over?
Ethereum, BitShares, Nxt. They got noticeable piece of Bitcoin's pie.
You haven't heard? Ethereum is going to be PoW. BitShares is DPoS , not PoS. Nxt is slowly dying and losing place to PoW and Debt based currencies.
We are? What coin do you see doing well?
The 365 day chart of NXT is certainly nothing
to write home about.
The 365 day chart of NXT is certainly nothing
to write home about.
Ethereum, BitShares, Nxt. They got noticeable piece of Bitcoin's pie.
This is mostly true and why I am a big fan of PoS coins. I think every Central Bank should have one.
Good boy.
NB:
Don't give up, man. You haven't used all your tricks yet. Try strawman tactics, for example.
Oh good. Looks like PoS wins and we don't have to redo this thread next week. Excellent.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
if the PoS system is indeed viable and superior
as some claim, we should see it start to gobble up market share...right?
as some claim, we should see it start to gobble up market share...right?
This is what we see now, share of PoS coins keeps growing.
We are? What coin do you see doing well?
The 365 day chart of NXT is certainly nothing
to write home about.
This is wrong i think.
Imagine you have two coins only.
Coin A is POW, it is 10 years old, it has 100 billion market cap, it has 5% inflation, it costs 1 billion to attack it and every merchant on earth accepts it.
Coin B is POS, it is 5 years old, it has 1 billion market cap, it has 0% inflation, it costs 1 billion to attack it and no merchant accepts it.
You can switch from one coin to the other one for free or very very cheaply.
In this scenario every rational investor would chose to have most of his savings in coin B and he would switch to coin A only when he needs to spend.
As time goes by almost everyone moves from coin A to coin B, coin B market cap grows to 100 billion, coin A is slowly abandoned, merchants forget about it and start to accept coin B only.
This is why i thin the coin that will win the crypto race is the coin which provides the strongest network at the lowest cost.
Network effect might not be enough to save bitcoin.
Hold on, you are mixing PoW/PoS with issuance.
It is possible to have a PoW coin with no more
issuance (Bitcoin will be like that in 100+ years),
and it also possible to have a PoS coin that issues
new coins for a period (or indefinitely).
The shorter the issuance period, the more people
will question if the distribution is fair.
Personally, when I first heard about Bitcoin, one
of the things about it that sold me was that miners
had to do some actual work to get coins... it wasn't
just some dudes high on a hill somewhere declaring
they invented a currency and saying everyone should
go use it.
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