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Topic: Proof that God exists - page 15. (Read 62290 times)

donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
March 13, 2016, 09:04:37 PM
In addition, you can understand the scientific proof that God exists by combining cause and effect, complex universe, and universal entropy, all three, common scientific laws.

Cool

"Complex universe" is not a "Common scientific law". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_science




Of course complexity is a common scientific law.

For example, when Newton formulated the law of gravity - you know, when the apple fell off the tree and hit him in the head - was he the first person who ever noticed gravity? Of course not. Others noticed it long before he did, and would have formulated it if they had felt the need. Perhaps someone else did formulate it before Newton.

In the same way, complex universe is not only a common law, it is a common scientific law, because any scientist can easily devise statements showing how universal complexity is. Complexity might even be more fundamental to everyone than gravity is.

Complex universe is a scientific law, even though it may not have been formulated formally as such.

Cool

Ah, so now it's *your* special scientific law that no one else knows about? Like all of your other proofs?



legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 13, 2016, 07:55:22 PM
In addition, you can understand the scientific proof that God exists by combining cause and effect, complex universe, and universal entropy, all three, common scientific laws.

Cool

"Complex universe" is not a "Common scientific law". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_science




Of course complexity is a common scientific law.

For example, when Newton formulated the law of gravity - you know, when the apple fell off the tree and hit him in the head - was he the first person who ever noticed gravity? Of course not. Others noticed it long before he did, and would have formulated it if they had felt the need. Perhaps someone else did formulate it before Newton.

In the same way, complex universe is not only a common law, it is a common scientific law, because any scientist can easily devise statements showing how universal complexity is. Complexity might even be more fundamental to everyone than gravity is.

Complex universe is a scientific law, even though it may not have been formulated formally as such.

Cool
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
March 13, 2016, 07:46:46 PM
In addition, you can understand the scientific proof that God exists by combining cause and effect, complex universe, and universal entropy, all three, common scientific laws.

Cool

"Complex universe" is not a "Common scientific law". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_science


legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
March 01, 2016, 03:07:29 PM
...
Creature created to be dependent on his Creator convincing self that he/she can be Independent(of the Creator)? 
...


I was created by my mother and father, not some old man in the sky.

I don't believe in any of your bronze age nonsense.  It is all made up mythology.  Whether it is 6th century BC or 6th century AD.

Made up by smarter apes for really gullible, dumb apes.

You guys should grow up, accept the life as it is.  Not fantasize about death, rapture, Armageddon, going to some magic heaven or hell.

None of that stuff you guys believe is real.



 
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 13, 2016, 04:20:01 PM
Thank you for the exhortation.

Since science has proved that the God Who created the universe exists. I don't have to attempt to prove such at all.

Continue to show your ignorance if you like.

Cool
And how has science proved that god created the universe? Can you explain what existed pre-god, in that case? Feel free to prevent my "ignorance" from affecting your beliefs.

God is eternal, having no beginning or end. Ants in an ant farm terrarium might ask what created people. God is infinitely farther beyond us than we are beyond ants.

As far as how science has proved the existence of God, simply look through my posts in this thread and some of the related threads. Or go to my profile info and look at my posts there.

Cool

Actually, science did the opposite.  It reduced "God" to a bronze age myth. We evolved.  Nothing to to with God(s).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkiPCKlNjX0



"We" maybe refers to you but sorry, not me.

Sometimes it is appropriate to refer to atheists as “descendants of the apes.” I’m sure all of them are highly honored by that title since they are the ones who claim that apes are their noble ancestors.This explains why atheists have devised the animalistic and heathenistic philosophy of atheism. It is because that is the best philosophy the ape’s descendants can come up with. That is as high as they can rise in their thinking. There has never been an ape during the history of apes that achieved the ability to perceive the existence of God and to worship Him. And so, it is not surprising that descendants of the apes are void of that ability as well.This also explains the awful heathen and abominable fruit descendants of apes produce in the society – why they are so lawless. It must have been a terrible group of apes they descended from, because when you observe apes that exist today, all of them do exactly what apes are suppose to do. But atheists cannot do anything right. Apes today are more civilized than atheists.
True christians have a far more noble fountain from whence they descended. We were originally created by the Almighty God – created in His image. We did not have to evolve to a higher state, but from the beginning, were created by God as perfect as humans can be. Even though we fell from our created state of perfection in the first man Adam, our Maker brings us back by His uplifting grace. But atheists, as descendants of the apes, have never and will never reached the level of perfection in which God originally created all mankind.
If atheists were human, and weren’t descendants of the apes, they might be able to perceive the beauty of the existence of God, and might have a chance at receiving God’s grace. But alas, animals don’t have that ability and God has no intention on saving animals.


In addition, you can understand the scientific proof that God exists by combining cause and effect, complex universe, and universal entropy, all three, common scientific laws.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 13, 2016, 04:16:22 PM
we have never heard about a home that was built without a builder or an invention without an inventor. SO the existence of the universe that we live in and all those creations that live in it is a proof that there is a creator who is God

You assume that the world was created by God to prove that he exists.

Again, there is no assumption about God existing and setting things into place. Combining cause and effect, complex universe, and universal entropy proves this scientifically.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 13, 2016, 04:14:02 PM
we have never heard about a home that was built without a builder or an invention without an inventor. SO the existence of the universe that we live in and all those creations that live in it is a proof that there is a creator who is God
and so with your argument god should also have a creator right? otherwise it would be double standard

Bear with me for a moment.

Let me show you part of the statements from a couple of websites. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe suggesting that our universe has only one electron that travels backward and forward in time to exist in all positions and locations that we consider to be many electrons:
The one-electron universe postulate, proposed by John Wheeler in a telephone call to Richard Feynman in the spring of 1940, states that all electrons and positrons are actually manifestations of a single entity moving backwards and forwards in time. According to Feynman:

I received a telephone call one day at the graduate college at Princeton from Professor Wheeler, in which he said, "Feynman, I know why all electrons have the same charge and the same mass" "Why?" "Because, they are all the same electron!"

Now look at someone who refutes the above, but has preposterous yet paramount sounding ideas of his own. From http://io9.gizmodo.com/5876966/what-if-every-electron-in-the-universe-was-all-the-same-exact-particle:
There's an idea that suggests all the universe's electrons are actually one particle forever traveling backwards and forwards in time. It's a simple, elegant idea that solves some of physics's biggest mysteries. There's only one tiny problem. It's complete nonsense.

...

This isn't a trivial point, either. Not only is it impossible to tell electrons apart based on their physical properties, it's essentially impossible to tell them apart at all. This is because determining specific electrons by their position would require measuring their trajectories with exact precision, and the laws of quantum mechanics forbid this. Between measurements, electrons in the quantum world are probabilistic, defined by wave functions that give the odds of finding that particle in any given position. When the wave functions of multiple electrons overlap, it becomes officially impossible to determine which of the electrons was the one that was originally measured.


Thank you for reading the above, and maybe even going to the sites to read more. So, what's the point?

The point is that, since we can't even tell for sure about some of the reasons why the simple electron is or acts the way it is or does...

And since God through cause and effect pushed all the electrons into actions is some distant past, so that they produce the results that exist today...

How in the world are we going to determine any attributes about God? The answer is that we aren't, except if He tells us.

God is so far and great beyond us, that if He DID have a cause, or if He DIDN'T have a cause, it would be all the same to us. The thing that we would see about this is that there is nothing about God that we can determine, except vaguely, or a little more clearly when He tells us.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
March 01, 2016, 01:55:18 PM

Not any of these links you posted are mine, so your claims about so called "my scam" are obsolete. And why are you afraid of "my scam"-by your definition, if atheism is accurate and correct.

I see you like watching youtube videos, so here is a link specially for you:

Is Religion Intellectually Dangerous? Featuring Dr. John Lennox at the University of Toronto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhrxwb2bfSg


Religion is scam, you are supporter of this scam.

Religion has absolutely nothing to do with science.  

John Lennox got his ass handed to him by Lawrence Krauss.  The guy makes a bunch of assumptions based on his religious beliefs.
He sounds like BADecker.  He is not a scientist.  More like a philosopher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKt2NPbTHM0



BTW dr.Lennox won this debate, but never mind. Let's continue.

There are many attributes atheists are lacking, not only believing in God or gods.

just to mention few:
-clear thinking
-common sense
-backbone
-atheists are walking in the mist and living in dreamworld.

Good news is that they could learn from Christopher Hitchens how to get some backbone first. Here are two good examples:

Christopher Hitchens Admits defeat and audience agrees Hitchens lost debate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB6BTb8Dinw

Christopher Hitchens drops bombshell in a debate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qab2PgpsIvU

And here you can learn a common sense:
Why the New Atheists are Missing the Target? - John Lennox 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktwzyUa-g1w


EDIT:
I'm not representing any kind of religion, I'm true witness that Jesus is the living Son of God, the LORD and KING, creator of ALL things and is coming back to establish his Kingdom of righteousness he will rule and there will be no place for atheism. If you accept him as your Lord and savior, you will be living with him in his Kingdom. Otherwise you are on your own.






  

I don't need any help from any imaginary friends.  I'm doing ok without them.

If he shows up, I'll punch his lights out for all the misery, murder and pedophilia he had caused.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
March 13, 2016, 01:38:17 AM
Quote
we have never heard about a home that was built without a builder or an invention without an inventor. SO the existence of the universe that we live in and all those creations that live in it is a proof that there is a creator who is God

Well i believe i was made by my parents, but believing that there a god i dont believe that.
A god was invented so there will be faith,faith will bring you strong mind in case that you are being held down by life.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 1247
Bitcoin Casino Est. 2013
March 12, 2016, 03:07:35 PM
we have never heard about a home that was built without a builder or an invention without an inventor. SO the existence of the universe that we live in and all those creations that live in it is a proof that there is a creator who is God
and so with your argument god should also have a creator right? otherwise it would be double standard
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
March 12, 2016, 02:24:18 PM
we have never heard about a home that was built without a builder or an invention without an inventor. SO the existence of the universe that we live in and all those creations that live in it is a proof that there is a creator who is God
hero member
Activity: 978
Merit: 506
March 12, 2016, 01:25:02 PM
Thank you for the exhortation.

Since science has proved that the God Who created the universe exists. I don't have to attempt to prove such at all.

Continue to show your ignorance if you like.

Cool
And how has science proved that god created the universe? Can you explain what existed pre-god, in that case? Feel free to prevent my "ignorance" from affecting your beliefs.

God is eternal, having no beginning or end. Ants in an ant farm terrarium might ask what created people. God is infinitely farther beyond us than we are beyond ants.

As far as how science has proved the existence of God, simply look through my posts in this thread and some of the related threads. Or go to my profile info and look at my posts there.

Cool

Actually, science did the opposite.  It reduced "God" to a bronze age myth. We evolved.  Nothing to to with God(s).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkiPCKlNjX0



"We" maybe refers to you but sorry, not me.

Sometimes it is appropriate to refer to atheists as “descendants of the apes.” I’m sure all of them are highly honored by that title since they are the ones who claim that apes are their noble ancestors.This explains why atheists have devised the animalistic and heathenistic philosophy of atheism. It is because that is the best philosophy the ape’s descendants can come up with. That is as high as they can rise in their thinking. There has never been an ape during the history of apes that achieved the ability to perceive the existence of God and to worship Him. And so, it is not surprising that descendants of the apes are void of that ability as well.This also explains the awful heathen and abominable fruit descendants of apes produce in the society – why they are so lawless. It must have been a terrible group of apes they descended from, because when you observe apes that exist today, all of them do exactly what apes are suppose to do. But atheists cannot do anything right. Apes today are more civilized than atheists.
True christians have a far more noble fountain from whence they descended. We were originally created by the Almighty God – created in His image. We did not have to evolve to a higher state, but from the beginning, were created by God as perfect as humans can be. Even though we fell from our created state of perfection in the first man Adam, our Maker brings us back by His uplifting grace. But atheists, as descendants of the apes, have never and will never reached the level of perfection in which God originally created all mankind.
If atheists were human, and weren’t descendants of the apes, they might be able to perceive the beauty of the existence of God, and might have a chance at receiving God’s grace. But alas, animals don’t have that ability and God has no intention on saving animals.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 07, 2016, 08:15:09 PM
The Bible.
The Bible itself is proof of God’s existence because He used 40 unrelated people over a period of 2,000 years to write His unique love letter to us. There is nothing like the Bible because it carries the same consistent message throughout all of its 66 different books.

You call the bible a love letter?!?  Have you read the book?  The first half is nothing but plagues, murder and suffering!

God would have to be seriously twisted to write a "love letter" like the bible... more like a threat/blackmail than love letter

Now it is you who haven't read the Book.

The first half is all about God loving His people so much that He protects them, both form those people who would hurt them, and from themselves by disciplining them when necessary.

The second half is all about God formally offering the right to become part of His people to everybody, rather than only the group He selected in the first part.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
March 07, 2016, 04:21:11 PM
The Bible.
The Bible itself is proof of God’s existence because He used 40 unrelated people over a period of 2,000 years to write His unique love letter to us. There is nothing like the Bible because it carries the same consistent message throughout all of its 66 different books.

You call the bible a love letter?!?  Have you read the book?  The first half is nothing but plagues, murder and suffering!

God would have to be seriously twisted to write a "love letter" like the bible... more like a threat/blackmail than love letter
hero member
Activity: 1638
Merit: 756
Bobby Fischer was right
March 07, 2016, 04:17:43 PM
The Bible.
The Bible itself is proof of God’s existence because He used 40 unrelated people over a period of 2,000 years to write His unique love letter to us. There is nothing like the Bible because it carries the same consistent message throughout all of its 66 different books.
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
March 01, 2016, 08:26:17 AM
I believe so that true God exists, this is even according to the bible. people may seem not to believe I have the same experience before wherein I have lost all my faith even to the point I requested him to take me. And yet during that time, He lifted me through my family and made me realize I am not alone. Until then I am always grateful that he made stronger, better person this is to stand out for my family..

Praise God!    Smiley

and take your medication!
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
March 07, 2016, 04:15:04 PM
just because there is no proof doesn't mean u shouldn't believe it

That is a definition of delusion.

Of course you should not believe in something that is not real.
jr. member
Activity: 58
Merit: 10
March 07, 2016, 03:59:39 PM
just because there is no proof doesn't mean u shouldn't believe it
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 07, 2016, 01:44:12 PM

Not an assumption. A faith thing. ...

and the few chains that he does make are so essentially tiny compared with all the cause and effect processes that God has made in the universe...

...

cause and effect might be meaningless prior to t=0.  All of the properties (laws/constants/dimensions/time) of our universe were probably undefined before t=0.
True. The universe did not exsit before time.


Maybe with big bang, space-time came to exist in our universe and it did not exist before that.  If that is true, then God could only exist when t>0 because when t <= 0, existence (of anything) was not defined/meaningless.  And we don't see any evidence of any Gods when t>0.
Why talk the if's of the big bang? Nobody has proven that it existed. And lots of people have good evidence that it did not exist. Google "electric universe" to find sites where you can see the info that collapses big bang theory.

God existed outside the universe prior to Him setting time and the universe in place. Now, He still exists outside of time and the universe, even though He has a presence inside the universe as well.

Why talk "God?" Because science has proven that God exists, even though science hasn't proven big bang exists, or even could have existed.


Humans need a cause for everything.  This need is in our nature.  It helped us survive in the past, and it advances science and technology today.

But the t <=0 conditions might not be intuitive to us because of our biology.  That is why people fill this shortcoming with God.


This is true. Even if science had not proven God to exist, the very nature of the complexity of the universe strongly suggests that He exists. People operate by what they perceive, or at least by what they think they perceive.

Cool

You misunderstood.  My contention is that people invent God concept because they think everything has to have a cause, even before big bang. That is where their logic fails them as it is hard to imagine conditions outside of our universe with no physical laws or time.  Cause and effect have no meaning before t=0.




Perhaps I misunderstood what you were expressing, however...

First, big bang as the theory exists, is lacking the idea of intelligence and emotion. Intelligence and emotion are part of the universe. Therefore big bang, if it existed, must have had intelligence and emotion. Thus, big bang theory is inaccurate, and big bang probably didn't exist at all. For sure it didn't exist according to what big bang theory suggests it is.

I agree with the idea that people logic fails them with regard to things outside everything, which is what "universe" means. We say the words, "outside the universe," but we don't understand the concept of what we say.

Cause and effect as a unit have no meaning before time or the universe. But cause does have meaning. The universe is the result or effect of the Great First Cause, which, because of the nature of the universe, also fits our definitions of "God," but at least the result of God. The first cause may not have actually been God. The first cause may have been something that God created.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
March 07, 2016, 01:28:35 PM

Not an assumption. A faith thing. ...

and the few chains that he does make are so essentially tiny compared with all the cause and effect processes that God has made in the universe...

...

cause and effect might be meaningless prior to t=0.  All of the properties (laws/constants/dimensions/time) of our universe were probably undefined before t=0.
True. The universe did not exsit before time.


Maybe with big bang, space-time came to exist in our universe and it did not exist before that.  If that is true, then God could only exist when t>0 because when t <= 0, existence (of anything) was not defined/meaningless.  And we don't see any evidence of any Gods when t>0.
Why talk the if's of the big bang? Nobody has proven that it existed. And lots of people have good evidence that it did not exist. Google "electric universe" to find sites where you can see the info that collapses big bang theory.

God existed outside the universe prior to Him setting time and the universe in place. Now, He still exists outside of time and the universe, even though He has a presence inside the universe as well.

Why talk "God?" Because science has proven that God exists, even though science hasn't proven big bang exists, or even could have existed.


Humans need a cause for everything.  This need is in our nature.  It helped us survive in the past, and it advances science and technology today.

But the t <=0 conditions might not be intuitive to us because of our biology.  That is why people fill this shortcoming with God.


This is true. Even if science had not proven God to exist, the very nature of the complexity of the universe strongly suggests that He exists. People operate by what they perceive, or at least by what they think they perceive.

Cool

You misunderstood.  My contention is that people invent God concept because they think everything has to have a cause, even before big bang. That is where their logic fails them as it is hard to imagine conditions outside of our universe with no physical laws or time.  Cause and effect have no meaning before t=0.


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