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Topic: Proof that God exists - page 33. (Read 62293 times)

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:37:32 PM

Didn't I say something about measuring all the particles and energies? Ah, yes, I did. But I also meant measuring their every relationship to each other. If you attempt to do this, you will find that the energies, the particles, their conversions molecularly, their relational positions, inside the conversion process, are way more complex than the end result that they produce.

Attempts to make measurements like this have been attempted for years using microcalorimetric functions. But it still is way beyond our reach because of the complexity involved.

Cool

This is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. There is no way to test it, because you state that this concept of complexity is (as yet) unmeasurable. Unless you meant the "calorific measurements"? Measurement of heat is not measurement of complexity.

Do you have any other suggested measures of complexity that actually *do* exist?

Which is more complex, ice or water?



Measuring heat vibrations and how they react on individual sub-atomic particles in their relationships with each other is a complexity beyond understanding at present. This unmeasurable complexity is what produces the result.

Cool

So you're not sure if ice or water is more complex? Then how can you say that some level of complexity is only a result of something more complex?

Here's how. Since entropy pervades everything, ultimately everything that is made out of something else is at least slightly less complex than the thing that made it, due to entropy.

Are you trying to go for a swim inside ice, or what Huh

Cool


If you don't know which is more complex in that case, how can you be certain which is more complex in any arbitrary case? I will accept answers other than "Because that's the way I think it is".



If you really want the answer to the complexity of ice and water, do the research.    Cool
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 292
★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice
February 21, 2016, 07:37:08 PM
That must have hurt.
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
February 21, 2016, 07:33:08 PM

Didn't I say something about measuring all the particles and energies? Ah, yes, I did. But I also meant measuring their every relationship to each other. If you attempt to do this, you will find that the energies, the particles, their conversions molecularly, their relational positions, inside the conversion process, are way more complex than the end result that they produce.

Attempts to make measurements like this have been attempted for years using microcalorimetric functions. But it still is way beyond our reach because of the complexity involved.

Cool

This is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. There is no way to test it, because you state that this concept of complexity is (as yet) unmeasurable. Unless you meant the "calorific measurements"? Measurement of heat is not measurement of complexity.

Do you have any other suggested measures of complexity that actually *do* exist?

Which is more complex, ice or water?



Measuring heat vibrations and how they react on individual sub-atomic particles in their relationships with each other is a complexity beyond understanding at present. This unmeasurable complexity is what produces the result.

Cool

So you're not sure if ice or water is more complex? Then how can you say that some level of complexity is only a result of something more complex?

Here's how. Since entropy pervades everything, ultimately everything that is made out of something else is at least slightly less complex than the thing that made it, due to entropy.

Are you trying to go for a swim inside ice, or what Huh

Cool


If you don't know which is more complex in that case, how can you be certain which is more complex in any arbitrary case? I will accept answers other than "Because that's the way I think it is".

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:28:48 PM

How dense of you. The chemical reactions in both cases are way more complex than the results.

Cool

Ah! Now we're getting somewhere. How are you measuring the change in complexity? Or are you just making an assumption>

When somebody has found a way to track all the electrons, protons, and neutrons in a chemical action, plus all the energies involved in the reaction, you might get the answer to your question. Nobody tracks it. We can't, although we might track a little of it sometime. Just because we have figured out how it works, doesn't mean that we can track the parts as they are doing their thing.

Cool

So, In summary:

Either the examples I gave -- Copper sulphate solution precipitates copper sulphate crystals and wood burning to create smoke -- have the following unmeasureable pathways:

Complex material -> Complex reaction -> Simple material or;
Simple material -> Complex reaction -> Complex material

So using your explanation, in at least one of the cases something complex comes from something simple.


Didn't I say something about measuring all the particles and energies? Ah, yes, I did. But I also meant measuring their every relationship to each other. If you attempt to do this, you will find that the energies, the particles, their conversions molecularly, their relational positions, inside the conversion process, are way more complex than the end result that they produce.

Attempts to make measurements like this have been attempted for years using microcalorimetric functions. But it still is way beyond our reach because of the complexity involved.

Cool

This is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. There is no way to test it, because you state that this concept of complexity is (as yet) unmeasurable. Unless you meant the "calorific measurements"? Measurement of heat is not measurement of complexity.

Do you have any other suggested measures of complexity that actually *do* exist?

Which is more complex, ice or water?



Measuring heat vibrations and how they react on individual sub-atomic particles in their relationships with each other is a complexity beyond understanding at present. This unmeasurable complexity is what produces the result.

Cool

So you're not sure if ice or water is more complex? Then how can you say that some level of complexity is only a result of something more complex?

Here's how. Since entropy pervades everything, ultimately everything that is made out of something else is at least slightly less complex than the thing that made it, due to entropy.

Are you trying to go for a swim inside ice, or what Huh

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:25:12 PM

In there or out there doesn't matter. You haven't been able to refute the science I show.

Okay, okay. You talk more, so your political science might "refute" the science I show.

When have you ever shown anything that even resembled science?

All you do is blather on and on about off-topic bullshit that nobody wants to read

As I said, whatever you have been smoking has nearly burned your brain out. You wouldn't recognize science if it came up and bit you in the left eye.

Science is solely about facts that can be substantiated via experimentation and evidence... show me some of this science you claim to have

You mean the kind like Big Bang Theory, and Black Hole Theory, which are not even part of the scientific process, because nobody can begin to duplicate them, because nobody can afford to use CERN?

You want to believe those theories are truth, when they can't even be duplicated, and when they are self contradictory, and when nobody but nobody can even go back then or out there to check.


What are you babbling about now?  What is this about CERN?

Are you trying to say CERN is too expensive or something?  Or that nobody else can build a particle accelerator?

I hope you realize CERN is not the only particle accelerator around, and they are building bigger ones already

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_accelerator

Hell, there are a dozen different varieties of particle accelerator... why do you think they just make this shit up like you do?  Not everyone is full of shit... only you...

You are like the rabbit that hides its head, but doesn't realize everyone can see it's whole body... because it is dark for the rabbit, the rabbit thinks it is hiding...

What are you going on about particle accelerators for? An extremely few people ever get to use the giant particle accelerators that might prove or disprove parts of BB and BH theory. Thus, even the little bit of science in those theories that might be true, cannot be reproduced by other than a few, select scientists... if you want to believe them. No duplication, no science, right?

But if you believe them, they are your gods, since you can't do it.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:20:44 PM
Hey BADecker, you still never explained why carbon datation was not reliable!

Not only carbon but all and any radioactive datation in fact.

I am not up on the reason why. But research it and you will find the data that shows that they are unreliable.

Cool
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
February 21, 2016, 07:19:58 PM

How dense of you. The chemical reactions in both cases are way more complex than the results.

Cool

Ah! Now we're getting somewhere. How are you measuring the change in complexity? Or are you just making an assumption>

When somebody has found a way to track all the electrons, protons, and neutrons in a chemical action, plus all the energies involved in the reaction, you might get the answer to your question. Nobody tracks it. We can't, although we might track a little of it sometime. Just because we have figured out how it works, doesn't mean that we can track the parts as they are doing their thing.

Cool

So, In summary:

Either the examples I gave -- Copper sulphate solution precipitates copper sulphate crystals and wood burning to create smoke -- have the following unmeasureable pathways:

Complex material -> Complex reaction -> Simple material or;
Simple material -> Complex reaction -> Complex material

So using your explanation, in at least one of the cases something complex comes from something simple.


Didn't I say something about measuring all the particles and energies? Ah, yes, I did. But I also meant measuring their every relationship to each other. If you attempt to do this, you will find that the energies, the particles, their conversions molecularly, their relational positions, inside the conversion process, are way more complex than the end result that they produce.

Attempts to make measurements like this have been attempted for years using microcalorimetric functions. But it still is way beyond our reach because of the complexity involved.

Cool

This is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. There is no way to test it, because you state that this concept of complexity is (as yet) unmeasurable. Unless you meant the "calorific measurements"? Measurement of heat is not measurement of complexity.

Do you have any other suggested measures of complexity that actually *do* exist?

Which is more complex, ice or water?



Measuring heat vibrations and how they react on individual sub-atomic particles in their relationships with each other is a complexity beyond understanding at present. This unmeasurable complexity is what produces the result.

Cool

So you're not sure if ice or water is more complex? Then how can you say that some level of complexity is only a result of something more complex?



legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:19:03 PM

Is the 8 week old baby more complex than 2 weeks old baby?  Answer Yes or No please.

You understand the question, don't you?

... But I will answer it anyway. Yes. ...

Thank you.

You proved yourself wrong.   2 week old baby is less complex than 8 week old baby.
More complexity from less complexity.  There goes your "proof" of God, out to the dumpster.

Your Honour, I rest my case.  Witness is excused.



Nah, we already tried that.

I tried with evolution theory and fusions and simple tree growth but he just says yes then go like it was a no, won't work mate!

That's just it. Evolution = theory. Cause and effect = fact/law. Cause and effect = programming = if evolution is true in any way, it was programmed into nature.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 722
February 21, 2016, 07:18:15 PM

In there or out there doesn't matter. You haven't been able to refute the science I show.

Okay, okay. You talk more, so your political science might "refute" the science I show.

When have you ever shown anything that even resembled science?

All you do is blather on and on about off-topic bullshit that nobody wants to read

As I said, whatever you have been smoking has nearly burned your brain out. You wouldn't recognize science if it came up and bit you in the left eye.

Science is solely about facts that can be substantiated via experimentation and evidence... show me some of this science you claim to have

You mean the kind like Big Bang Theory, and Black Hole Theory, which are not even part of the scientific process, because nobody can begin to duplicate them, because nobody can afford to use CERN?

You want to believe those theories are truth, when they can't even be duplicated, and when they are self contradictory, and when nobody but nobody can even go back then or out there to check.


What are you babbling about now?  What is this about CERN?  Did you know you can fly to Switzerland and check it out for yourself?

Are you trying to say CERN is too expensive or something?  Or that nobody else can build a particle accelerator?

I hope you realize CERN is not the only particle accelerator around, and they are building bigger ones already

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_accelerator

Hell, there are a dozen different varieties of particle accelerator... why do you think they just make this shit up like you do?  Not everyone is full of shit... only you...

You are like the rabbit that hides its head, but doesn't realize everyone can see it's whole body... because it is dark for the rabbit, the rabbit thinks it is hiding...
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:16:52 PM

Is the 8 week old baby more complex than 2 weeks old baby?  Answer Yes or No please.

You understand the question, don't you?

... But I will answer it anyway. Yes. ...

Thank you.

You proved yourself wrong.   2 week old baby is less complex than 8 week old baby.
More complexity from less complexity.  There goes your "proof" of God, out to the dumpster.

Your Honour, I rest my case.  Witness is excused.



Since you didn't include my whole answer, your case in entirely inadmissible.    Cool

You have been excused.

Good Luck with your imaginary proofs and your imaginary God.  I think you need it.


For your own good, turn your back on your imaginary science.    Cool
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 529
February 21, 2016, 07:13:06 PM
Hey BADecker, you still never explained why carbon datation was not reliable!

Not only carbon but all and any radioactive datation in fact.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 529
February 21, 2016, 07:12:29 PM

Is the 8 week old baby more complex than 2 weeks old baby?  Answer Yes or No please.

You understand the question, don't you?

... But I will answer it anyway. Yes. ...

Thank you.

You proved yourself wrong.   2 week old baby is less complex than 8 week old baby.
More complexity from less complexity.  There goes your "proof" of God, out to the dumpster.

Your Honour, I rest my case.  Witness is excused.



Nah, we already tried that.

I tried with evolution theory and fusions and simple tree growth but he just says yes then go like it was a no, won't work mate!
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
February 21, 2016, 07:11:00 PM

Is the 8 week old baby more complex than 2 weeks old baby?  Answer Yes or No please.

You understand the question, don't you?

... But I will answer it anyway. Yes. ...

Thank you.

You proved yourself wrong.   2 week old baby is less complex than 8 week old baby.
More complexity from less complexity.  There goes your "proof" of God, out to the dumpster.

Your Honour, I rest my case.  Witness is excused.



Since you didn't include my whole answer, your case in entirely inadmissible.    Cool

You have been excused.

Good Luck with your imaginary proofs and your imaginary God.  I think you need it.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:07:43 PM

Is the 8 week old baby more complex than 2 weeks old baby?  Answer Yes or No please.

You understand the question, don't you?

... But I will answer it anyway. Yes. ...

Thank you.

You proved yourself wrong.   2 week old baby is less complex than 8 week old baby.
More complexity from less complexity.  There goes your "proof" of God, out to the dumpster.

Your Honour, I rest my case.  Witness is excused.



Since you didn't include my whole answer, your case in entirely inadmissible.    Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:06:00 PM
At this point I really don't care anymore. I know what I know. You go with your god and leave me alone.

You only say that because it is the truth inside yourself trying to make itself known to you that is upsetting you so much.

It's hard to tell if you are actually a Christian, or an Atheist, pretending to be Christian... to make Christians look bad... because you are doing a marvelous job of making Christians look mental

There you go with more of your political science again.    Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:04:38 PM

How dense of you. The chemical reactions in both cases are way more complex than the results.

Cool

Ah! Now we're getting somewhere. How are you measuring the change in complexity? Or are you just making an assumption>

When somebody has found a way to track all the electrons, protons, and neutrons in a chemical action, plus all the energies involved in the reaction, you might get the answer to your question. Nobody tracks it. We can't, although we might track a little of it sometime. Just because we have figured out how it works, doesn't mean that we can track the parts as they are doing their thing.

Cool

So, In summary:

Either the examples I gave -- Copper sulphate solution precipitates copper sulphate crystals and wood burning to create smoke -- have the following unmeasureable pathways:

Complex material -> Complex reaction -> Simple material or;
Simple material -> Complex reaction -> Complex material

So using your explanation, in at least one of the cases something complex comes from something simple.


Didn't I say something about measuring all the particles and energies? Ah, yes, I did. But I also meant measuring their every relationship to each other. If you attempt to do this, you will find that the energies, the particles, their conversions molecularly, their relational positions, inside the conversion process, are way more complex than the end result that they produce.

Attempts to make measurements like this have been attempted for years using microcalorimetric functions. But it still is way beyond our reach because of the complexity involved.

Cool

This is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. There is no way to test it, because you state that this concept of complexity is (as yet) unmeasurable. Unless you meant the "calorific measurements"? Measurement of heat is not measurement of complexity.

Do you have any other suggested measures of complexity that actually *do* exist?

Which is more complex, ice or water?



Measuring heat vibrations and how they react on individual sub-atomic particles in their relationships with each other is a complexity beyond understanding at present. This unmeasurable complexity is what produces the result.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 07:00:30 PM

In there or out there doesn't matter. You haven't been able to refute the science I show.

Okay, okay. You talk more, so your political science might "refute" the science I show.

When have you ever shown anything that even resembled science?

All you do is blather on and on about off-topic bullshit that nobody wants to read

As I said, whatever you have been smoking has nearly burned your brain out. You wouldn't recognize science if it came up and bit you in the left eye.

Science is solely about facts that can be substantiated via experimentation and evidence... show me some of this science you claim to have

You mean the kind like Big Bang Theory, and Black Hole Theory, which are not even part of the scientific process, because nobody can begin to duplicate them, because nobody can afford to use CERN?

You want to believe those theories are truth, when they can't even be duplicated, and when they are self contradictory, and when nobody but nobody can even go back then or out there to check.

But the things that have been prove as science law without contradiction - cause and effect, complex universe, universal entropy - over and over in nature all around us, you are willing to set aside without, almost a second thought? It really isn't even worth talking to you from the standpoint of science.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
February 21, 2016, 06:59:09 PM

Is the 8 week old baby more complex than 2 weeks old baby?  Answer Yes or No please.

You understand the question, don't you?

... But I will answer it anyway. Yes. ...

Thank you.

You proved yourself wrong.   2 week old baby is less complex than 8 week old baby.
More complexity from less complexity.  There goes your "proof" of God, out to the dumpster.

Your Honour, I rest my case.  Witness is excused.

hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 722
February 21, 2016, 06:55:27 PM
At this point I really don't care anymore. I know what I know. You go with your god and leave me alone.

You only say that because it is the truth inside yourself trying to make itself known to you that is upsetting you so much.

It's hard to tell if you are actually a Christian, or an Atheist, pretending to be Christian... to make Christians look bad... because you are doing a marvelous job of making Christians look mental
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
February 21, 2016, 06:54:10 PM
At this point I really don't care anymore. I know what I know. You go with your god and leave me alone.

You only say that because it is the truth inside yourself trying to make itself known to you that is upsetting you so much.

Cool
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