Topic: [Proposal] Mining Co-Op - page 6. (Read 11341 times)

LK Group just posted renders and stats on their upcoming gear. Feast your eyes! We might just be getting the competition I asked for! The more hardware on the market, the better the chances competition will start driving prices down.

Not to say I dislike sp-tech  ,    but If I recall  their claim on the sp20 doing 1700gh  would be like me saying my Kia Forte does 120mph.

Yes  my Kia  does  120 mph downhill on a straight dry road in the daylight.


So if you all recall the sp20 really ran well at 1300gh.  about .55watts a gh

And at 1700 more like 1650 gh it did about .75 watts a gh

So it is possible the the sp50 can do 110th  and it is possible it can do .15watts  but that it can not do both at the same time.

My guess is you will want to run the sp50 at  95th in order to see that .15watts

1. I am not aware of any datacenter that will charge you only 5c/kwh.
2. We don't know the price of SP50. Without this piece of info, nothing can be calculated.
3. Someone has to show that an actual machine routinely reaches 110 Th and stays there.

The S7 is FAR less power efficient than the SP50. There is an enormous difference between 0.25 and 0.15 w/gh. Unless there is competition in the market (which at the moment, there isn't), it is really not a good idea to buy the S7, as bitmain has no incentive to lower their prices to realistic levels, and their miner has already been eclipsed.

Even at this very optimistic $0.05/kwh, we're looking at 365 days until breaking even on S7s, not factoring in:

• The block reward halving.
• Significant hardware lead time. (best case, they'll be hashing 3-4 weeks from today)
• More efficient hardware being released over the next year which spikes difficulty.
• Cost of PSUs.
• Downtime from damaged miners (as they await RMA), power loss, and internet blackouts.

As for difficulty, the simulation assumes that the rate of difficulty increase stays the same (8.72% per month). That's a very optimistic difficulty estimate, since SP50s haven't even been deployed in large qtys yet.
Sim link: https://coinplorer.com/Hardware/Simulate/56108b61226bf41570cbce49?key=079d11b5-c797-4d29-8f91-61bd6fce8add

Even in the best case, almost fairy-tale like scenario outlined above, our numbers are shit. I am not comfortable in organizing a hardware buy that is doomed by math.

Now, as for the strategy of selling the S7s early and buying SP50's: It's fairly complicated to do that. We'd need to find a buyer/multiple buyers for the s7s, pay escrow fees, hold the funds, negotiate with Spondoolies, and then purchase the SP50s. It exposes us to more risks: What if we can't find a buyer, or we can't negotiate a favourable deal with Spondoolies after selling the miners?

Plus, we still have the problem that we greatly overpaid for our miners, and we are counting on suckers to overpay for ours.

We are in no rush, absolutely no rush at all, to get this done. What we need is competition, price quotes from the competition, and the math to add up. Right now, we have none of those.

I think the money is currently not there.  I could be wrong but this seems like a lot of talk of good ideas but no money has been trade hands.  Is there an estimate of how much money will be behind this?

I know some don't think so but I think if find low priced electricity would have a lot more investors.  If you could show .05 or less electricity I think it would not matter S7 or SP50 people would be interested.

It would be wise, or you could just buy S7s now and later on sell them and get SP50s. There would be a slight loss of hashing power and additional funds may be required to get the same equivalent hashing power but you are at least hashing sooner rather than later and thus could also benefit from a potential rise in the btc exchange rate (which likely is an important factor for some of the GB members).

To get SP50 pricing this group would have to be pretty much set in stone with a lot of funding.  I have a feeling it might take a purchase of a few specifically at the first.

The hard part is at first I think it would take a NDA to a lot of the info with SP50.  But then you run into problem of how do you share info under NDA with co-op members who don't have one.   Unless you are really set on SP and got initial funding and got entire group to do NDA's.

For what it's worth I still think electricity is just as important as miner.   This group just needs a lot more set in stone I think before it will move to next stage.

It might not be wise. Bitmain is the only game in town right now selling to the public. Their prices are jacked up because there is no competition.

or go for s7 and don't waste the time!

Right now it seems like we are leaning towards the SP50. That being said it really boils down to price and availability--SP50s are not available at the moment, and we don't know what Spondoolies is charging for them, so I think it is wise for us to wait and see.

Sorry for the late reply, I just got back from a brief (well relatively brief for some) vacation. We can easily host 100kw worth of gear. Armedmilitia I replied to your PM. I'm going to discuss your offer with my partner and PM you a rate for 100 kw worth of consumption.

Did you guys decide yet on what miners you will purchase? (SP50 or S7s?)

I think we would want to get a rate of around .05 or less.  That is my personal thoughts on a co-op is to go somewhere that is able to provide cheap electricity (I prefer US but not stuck on it).  I only problem I have outside of US is that I know much more about us LLC and small corp's and like the assets kept in country company is in.  But it seems there has been a decent amount of focus twords canada, I could be wrong but seems that way. 

The hard part seems to be the data centers do have overhead and they do  not go down to this rate yet at least.   But for me to want to spend a lot electricity would have to be right priced as I want machines to be able to run after having.   

We could get one that works perfectly fine now with  existing data centers.  But at having still a lot of unknowns.  So I would want to ROI before then if spending lots. 

I would be willing to visit any datacenters on the east coast US and provide pictures if they allow it. NC currently has decent electric rates because theyre trying to attract large industrial companies. They are providing larger electric rate discounts for the more power used. By simply using a meer 700kwh or more per month the rate can be around $.08-.09/kwh depending on your area. I am sure large datacenters can get even more aggressive.

I am paying between $.096-.11/kwh for residential service and my industrial power is even less for the BFTB mining project.

/fixed

You quoted an old version of my post! I tried to do a ninja edit, but apparently was a few seconds too late.

My S7 are going to be host by him ;-) He already host my S4.

I used to host some hardware with allinvain a while back, but I didn't consider him as an option for this group buy because he recently was undercut by the competition.

However, I checked his page out last night, and it looks like he's dropped his rates considerably--and they are very competitive!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cryptoboreas-canadian-bitcoin-mining-hosting-as-low-as-65-cad-per-1-kwh-500121
Converting that 6mo CAD figure to USD I get $49/KW, or $0.068/KW. I've contacted him for a bulk quote, I'll report back when I hear from him.

I think it might be wise to actually have a member visit these hosting locations if we get enough interest and if we're down to a few options. After all, price shouldn't be the only thing we're looking for in our hoster--and posting pics will help make this whole operation look more legitimate. As a canadian, it wouldn't be too expensive for me to go.

I'm fairly certain both GND and CryptoBoreas are both based out of the same town in labrador.

Thoughts?

Were kinda guessing there is no way to know really what they want.  If just buying one it no doubt will be higher side as not bulk customer. 

I see this as kinda a hard sell on getting the money if it is 40-50k.   If the co-op uses a data center and get's same electricity price as I could go get myself from them there is not a huge upside.    I think with co-op you really need to be focused on finding low priced electrical data center if you are sure on pre-done one.   

I really wish we could find a way to use combined skills to truly make a low budget mining center.  If your talking about buying a few SP50's getting a center for probley around half the price of electricity really makes sense to me.

don't forget that you are also paying for 22xcontrollers ($~40/ea?), about 38 extra fans (44 vs 6 IIRC)(~$10/ea), and other costs related to the case, pcie sockets, more heatsink weight, larger individual shipping boxes (probably costs $500 more to ship those S7 units then to ship a single SP50).

The Sp50 shaves around $2000 in costs by being a singular device with only one controller. Enough to make up for the 10x power supplies almost. Add in the "bulk" aspect, and i would assume $40-45k

also: i would put at least 10BTC towards a well-orchestrated GB with colocation at GND. I would risk more, but I believe holding BTC>$400 might be a better investment