People should also realize that they can likely file in small claims court in their own state against minersource, or black arrow for that matter.
a judgement against BA would be difficult to enforce, probably, although one against MS is a slightly different story, I would think think.
Are they going to fly their lawyers in? Maybe. Then again maybe not. Depending on what they owe people it's an option I'd look into if I'd bought from them and they were giving me the runaround.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter9-2.html
Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 51. (Read 96796 times)
Is this address from the website remotely legit?
5A03, Building 1, Huangduguangchang, Yitian Road, Futian District, Shenzhen, Guangdong, P. R. China, Postcode: 518048
Reason I'm asking is that I'm going to send out a batch of complaints shortly to every relevant jurisdiction, and it has come to my attention that Shenzhen has had some pretty strong consumer protection laws since early 2013, and if they receive a significant number of complaints, the city itself has the authority to bring suit against them in the interest of consumers. Shenzhen is not some third-world backwater with no consequences.
There might even be some delightful surprises, for example wouldn't it be a shocker if say we were to find out that this operation isn't even properly licensed?
5A03, Building 1, Huangduguangchang, Yitian Road, Futian District, Shenzhen, Guangdong, P. R. China, Postcode: 518048
Reason I'm asking is that I'm going to send out a batch of complaints shortly to every relevant jurisdiction, and it has come to my attention that Shenzhen has had some pretty strong consumer protection laws since early 2013, and if they receive a significant number of complaints, the city itself has the authority to bring suit against them in the interest of consumers. Shenzhen is not some third-world backwater with no consequences.
There might even be some delightful surprises, for example wouldn't it be a shocker if say we were to find out that this operation isn't even properly licensed?
I think it probably is correct, but please keep us posted if you come up with solid info.
Is this address from the website remotely legit?
5A03, Building 1, Huangduguangchang, Yitian Road, Futian District, Shenzhen, Guangdong, P. R. China, Postcode: 518048
Reason I'm asking is that I'm going to send out a batch of complaints shortly to every relevant jurisdiction, and it has come to my attention that Shenzhen has had some pretty strong consumer protection laws since early 2013, and if they receive a significant number of complaints, the city itself has the authority to bring suit against them in the interest of consumers. Shenzhen is not some third-world backwater with no consequences.
There might even be some delightful surprises, for example wouldn't it be a shocker if say we were to find out that this operation isn't even properly licensed?
5A03, Building 1, Huangduguangchang, Yitian Road, Futian District, Shenzhen, Guangdong, P. R. China, Postcode: 518048
Reason I'm asking is that I'm going to send out a batch of complaints shortly to every relevant jurisdiction, and it has come to my attention that Shenzhen has had some pretty strong consumer protection laws since early 2013, and if they receive a significant number of complaints, the city itself has the authority to bring suit against them in the interest of consumers. Shenzhen is not some third-world backwater with no consequences.
There might even be some delightful surprises, for example wouldn't it be a shocker if say we were to find out that this operation isn't even properly licensed?
Bitcoin Difficulty: 23,844,670,039
Estimated Next Difficulty: 28,744,274,375 (+20.55%)
Adjust time: After 1211 Blocks, About 7.5 days
Hashrate(?): 189,880,137 GH/s
Looking into my crystal ball here I can see the X3 will be making $10/day in a weeks time. In 5 weeks the X3 will make $0/day. 10¢/kWh power costs considered.
If my X3 ships "next week" and takes a week to arrive I'll be able to mine for 3 weeks and make $140.
Estimated Next Difficulty: 28,744,274,375 (+20.55%)
Adjust time: After 1211 Blocks, About 7.5 days
Hashrate(?): 189,880,137 GH/s
Looking into my crystal ball here I can see the X3 will be making $10/day in a weeks time. In 5 weeks the X3 will make $0/day. 10¢/kWh power costs considered.
If my X3 ships "next week" and takes a week to arrive I'll be able to mine for 3 weeks and make $140.
Surely, you didn't order because what was stated in the OP, ignoring my, among others, to not deal with Alex Sovu now did you?
Quote
At today’s Bitcoin price and network hashing rate, X-1 would return $682 in 15 days and X-3 would return $13845 in 15 days (1).
Unfortunately I didn't become a forum member until I got the email from BA at the end of January that stated I wouldn't be getting my miner.
I had read some forum posts before I purchased but they were people talking about their BA Bitfury miners; I was confident the hardware was real.
If our ASIC will not be profitable, no ASIC with the same power efficiency will be and bitcoin mining with your Prospero will stop.
FTFY
FTFY
Bitcoin Difficulty: 23,844,670,039
Estimated Next Difficulty: 28,744,274,375 (+20.55%)
Adjust time: After 1211 Blocks, About 7.5 days
Hashrate(?): 189,880,137 GH/s
Looking into my crystal ball here I can see the X3 will be making $10/day in a weeks time. In 5 weeks the X3 will make $0/day. 10¢/kWh power costs considered.
If my X3 ships "next week" and takes a week to arrive I'll be able to mine for 3 weeks and make $140.
Estimated Next Difficulty: 28,744,274,375 (+20.55%)
Adjust time: After 1211 Blocks, About 7.5 days
Hashrate(?): 189,880,137 GH/s
Looking into my crystal ball here I can see the X3 will be making $10/day in a weeks time. In 5 weeks the X3 will make $0/day. 10¢/kWh power costs considered.
If my X3 ships "next week" and takes a week to arrive I'll be able to mine for 3 weeks and make $140.
I'm saying screw it and filing with the consumer council and contacting attorneys, as it seems BA is simply ignoring the CC anyhow, so something will have to be done formally.
What's great though is that by ignoring complaints filed through the consumer council, BA is already doing the heavy lifting for us in proving malice.
What is the path of least damage at this point?
A. Take the comp ASICs and sell them (where the hell would I sell them, who would buy them?)
B. Wait and pray for BA to do something like ship the X3 and give a good scrypt miner as comp (hoping they used the x-1 x-3 to learn to do this and now at least have some clue and won't be a year late on that)
C. Ask for a refund, never get miner, never get refund (I'm assuming this is what happens if you ask for one) Any case of anyone getting a refund? I have plenty of free hours with an attorney that I can use but I don't want to blow them if "them being in china" means I'll still never get my money back.
And to think, I can remember a time when I was worried about letting BA do the 5 day hosting because the extra shipping delay might cut into my ability for ROI.
I didn't need that $5k so much then, but with things that happened since, that profit (fuck,..breaking even) and having that money would be a life changer.
(sigh)
A. Take the comp ASICs and sell them (where the hell would I sell them, who would buy them?)
B. Wait and pray for BA to do something like ship the X3 and give a good scrypt miner as comp (hoping they used the x-1 x-3 to learn to do this and now at least have some clue and won't be a year late on that)
C. Ask for a refund, never get miner, never get refund (I'm assuming this is what happens if you ask for one) Any case of anyone getting a refund? I have plenty of free hours with an attorney that I can use but I don't want to blow them if "them being in china" means I'll still never get my money back.
And to think, I can remember a time when I was worried about letting BA do the 5 day hosting because the extra shipping delay might cut into my ability for ROI.
I didn't need that $5k so much then, but with things that happened since, that profit (fuck,..breaking even) and having that money would be a life changer.
(sigh)
Hope you'll get atleast something this year..
I opted for option C, bought from MS. their product was/is delayed way to far past the original communicated shipment date minersource and blackarrow is obliged to send customers a refund. They even agreed to send me a refund months ago and I'm still waiting. How both companies still exist and no one is jailed is beyond me.
Minersource do the right thing and send those refunds ASAP! You can't just keep playing with peoples money and get away with it.
People need to organize and step up. It seems that everyone wants someone else to do something and are unwilling to take action themselves.
You might lose, although at this point, I don't care if I do. What's the return on an X-3 right now? a couple thousand dollars if you're lucky? to me it makes more sense to file and fight for a refund. I know not everyone agrees with that, and that is their right, of course, although I don't see getting much out of the miners themselves at this point. I don't believe they don't have the money. I do believe they're counting on nobody doing a damn thing.
assuming these miners operate long term, which is a huge if based on what we're seeing so far, you're looking at what a couple/few BTC. paying power, screwing around with hosting, etc., etc..
I'm saying screw it and filing with the consumer council and contacting attorneys, as it seems BA is simply ignoring the CC anyhow, so something will have to be done formally.
September starts next week and it marks the one year anniversary for many customers still waiting.
What is the path of least damage at this point?
A. Take the comp ASICs and sell them (where the hell would I sell them, who would buy them?)
B. Wait and pray for BA to do something like ship the X3 and give a good scrypt miner as comp (hoping they used the x-1 x-3 to learn to do this and now at least have some clue and won't be a year late on that)
C. Ask for a refund, never get miner, never get refund (I'm assuming this is what happens if you ask for one) Any case of anyone getting a refund? I have plenty of free hours with an attorney that I can use but I don't want to blow them if "them being in china" means I'll still never get my money back.
And to think, I can remember a time when I was worried about letting BA do the 5 day hosting because the extra shipping delay might cut into my ability for ROI.
I didn't need that $5k so much then, but with things that happened since, that profit (fuck,..breaking even) and having that money would be a life changer.
(sigh)
A. Take the comp ASICs and sell them (where the hell would I sell them, who would buy them?)
B. Wait and pray for BA to do something like ship the X3 and give a good scrypt miner as comp (hoping they used the x-1 x-3 to learn to do this and now at least have some clue and won't be a year late on that)
C. Ask for a refund, never get miner, never get refund (I'm assuming this is what happens if you ask for one) Any case of anyone getting a refund? I have plenty of free hours with an attorney that I can use but I don't want to blow them if "them being in china" means I'll still never get my money back.
And to think, I can remember a time when I was worried about letting BA do the 5 day hosting because the extra shipping delay might cut into my ability for ROI.
I didn't need that $5k so much then, but with things that happened since, that profit (fuck,..breaking even) and having that money would be a life changer.
(sigh)
How 'splitting' it does makes sense is that by shipping the bulk of orders now the liability is greatly reduced, reducing the likelihood that people will organize to chase them down for comp unit that's pretty much worth next to nothing anyhow a few months from now.
I think that's exactly right, getting convinced to accept shipment without compensation (i.e. their price-matching promise prior to any orders even being placed) takes you out of the refund game entirely.
I think it's worth re-iterating, Black Arrow is obligated to refund your order if you request it. A pre-order is a pre-order, not a "I'm-going-to-do-whatever-I-want-with-your-money-go-fuck-yourself"-order.
yep, I think this promise of compensation is an outright lie. I think price matching was an outright lie all along. I think their telling people they would refund their money was an outright lie all along. They can easily disprove any of those opinions by simply delivering on these things, although I'm not holding my breath.
think of a promise they've actually kept to the aggregate group of customers that would cost them a dime. I can't think of one. not a single one.
I can tick off several major ones broken, not to mention shipping dates, facility capacity, etc., etc., etc., but I cannot think of one they've kept to their customers en masse.
are we supposed to believe that it's just been a string of unlikely events totally beyond their control or is it more likely that this was a strategy that utilized bad faith dealings to string people along? I'll let people decide that for themselves, I guess.
Still, the sooner those Scrypt miners get taped out and built, the sooner we can get our compensation, eh BA?
I'll eat my hat if there is any compensation at all ever.
The only reason for them to provide compensation (which is really just another word for their price matching promise back in the fall) is to prevent you from putting in for a refund then simply re-buying the same stuff at massive discount out of stock once they get their act together, because if there are ever going to be any new orders beyond batch 1 and 2 moving forward, they would have to be at least half price or lower compared to what batch 1/2 paid originally.
So basically, there is no reason for them to do any compensation because of two EXTREMELY false beliefs that they're trying to strongarm us into accepting:
1) That they're not obligated to issue refunds
2) That their product is of a higher quality than any competitor's, therefore it would be an apples-to-oranges situation to try to price match against competing hardware
In light of the facts and their overt position on the issue, the most likely outcome is going to be taking their sweet time milking batch 1 and 2 over the next few months, and then responding "fuck you, we shipped you your order, go away". They're not getting any repeat business from anybody whatsoever in batch 1/2, so why on earth wouldn't they re-purpose their supposed cheaper compensation design to new orders, possibly even under a different company name. If you see a "Minersource"-brand 1 TH/s miner listing for like $1500, you'll know what it is!
I agree completely. Look at their past behavior and how they've dangled other similar things out there and then pulled them back when they were no longer of use.
1. Price matching. Promised it all along, told people to wait until time of shipment for further details. Shipment began and they ditched it. Not partially, based on their silly this vs. that component excuse. Totally threw it over the side. As soon as it was no longer of use as a carrot to keep people quiet and from litigating in droves they dumped it.
2. Refunds. Same thing happened here. We'll get to it, we'll get to it. Please be patient. Everyone's busy building miners (but not too busy to develop a scrypt chip). Please don't organize and sue the hell out of us. Then what? Shipping started and people in the refund queue that had been told they would be getting refunds started getting their miners.
In terms of compensation, it makes no sense that I can see to not ship the comp with the orders. Based on their penny pinching ways to this point does it make sense that they'd incur further shipping cost to fire off packages around the planet at some future point? To me, it does not.
How 'splitting' it does makes sense is that by shipping the bulk of orders now the liability is greatly reduced, reducing the likelihood that people will organize to chase them down for comp unit that's pretty much worth next to nothing anyhow a few months from now.
IMO, all of these things have been a fraud from minute 1. It looks to me like they've strung people along with promises that were false from the outset and designed to do nothing but mollify people and keep mass litigation at bay.
Compensation is no different, IMO. Based on their actions on the above I do not think they intend to ship comp and I doubt they ever did.
To give us an idea how absurd the whole thing is, the link to contact them in their Scrypt miner solicitation goes to their ticketing system.
So some hypothetical person looking to fund them to create the hashrate of the entire litecoin network is supposed to get in touch with them through a ticket?
They're playing bullshit mind-games here, this is a preorder, but none of the payments and arrangements are being done publicly. This is even more fraudulent than the Prospero project, what they're doing here is getting people to settle with them on an ad hoc basis via the helpdesk without any publicly-disclosed offering. This is a good way to appeal to suckers, because conducting business this way makes a sucker feel like he's some important "investor" and not a mark.
So some hypothetical person looking to fund them to create the hashrate of the entire litecoin network is supposed to get in touch with them through a ticket?
They're playing bullshit mind-games here, this is a preorder, but none of the payments and arrangements are being done publicly. This is even more fraudulent than the Prospero project, what they're doing here is getting people to settle with them on an ad hoc basis via the helpdesk without any publicly-disclosed offering. This is a good way to appeal to suckers, because conducting business this way makes a sucker feel like he's some important "investor" and not a mark.
That's what one expects from a Nigger-GYPSY running the show. Enjoy your windfall, you fuckin' bastard, Alex Sovu!
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Bitcoin-Mining-Computer-Prospero-X-3-2000Ghash-second-/111436704141?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item19f225298d&_uhb=1&autorefresh=true
I feel sorry for the sucker that paid $999 for this X3 as he'll only make about $300 by the time it uses more power than it mines in coins and has to be turned off.
I feel sorry for the sucker that paid $999 for this X3 as he'll only make about $300 by the time it uses more power than it mines in coins and has to be turned off.
The owner canceled all the bids, then let the first bidder win it. He stated as the reason, that he hadn't tested it and then when he did test it, the PSU wasn't working so that's why he canceled all the bids. Why he let the one bidder win at $999 is odd though. Probably the whole thing was a scam anyway.
From the very very beginning
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Bitcoin-Mining-Computer-Prospero-X-3-2000Ghash-second-/111436704141?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item19f225298d&_uhb=1&autorefresh=true
I feel sorry for the sucker that paid $999 for this X3 as he'll only make about $300 by the time it uses more power than it mines in coins and has to be turned off.
I feel sorry for the sucker that paid $999 for this X3 as he'll only make about $300 by the time it uses more power than it mines in coins and has to be turned off.
If BA takes preorders on this scrypt asic of theirs, this will officially become a Ponzi scheme.
They already are. It says right on their website to contact them for a price. They are selling pre taped out scrypt ASICS. What a joke!
People, look at the scrypt scene. The hashrate is exploding with all the new ASICS coming on the market. They have marginally better power numbers for miners claiming to be out in December, than whats available today. By the time they actually ship, these will be as worthless as their other product lines.
By the way, there is no way to actually contact them. Clicking the blue link on the product page just reloads the page. And going to their contact us doesn't have an option for scrypt. Real professional launch of your new product BA.
Bobsag, are you going to be selling preorders for these scrypt miners?
Hopefully everyone remembers what has happened since the, "tape out" of the SHA-256 chip. Remember how they were on track all the while for February delivery. Then, with only a month left until shipping, decided to break the news that tape out hadn't even happened yet, although before claiming that they were still on track?
Remember how they said how quick of a process it would be once the chips were received, and now, months later, they have barely made a dent in their shipping queue?
Remember how they have said multiple lies on various subjects and continue to lie and defraud customers by mining with customer equipment?
If you order a scrypt miner from BA, I can guarantee 95% that it will not be available in December. I will have no remorse for you and your lost money, and instead will laugh at you because you are obviously ignorant. If you even think about ordering from a company that will not release the full chip specs, you deserve to lose your money!
They still haven't released their specs of the SHA-256 chip yet. Bobsag had to do that, and they never commented on those stats or about the chip frequency.
Also remember how they completely missed their power targets between tape out and final chip production. They also completely missed on almost every other aspect of the miner, or they have been self mining and have been lying about messing things up, either way do you want to do business with a lying company or an incompetent one? Come to think of it, they lied and are incompetent.
I am willing to put up 1 btc into a trusted escrow against BA that a functioning scrypt miner will not be shipped by the end of December from them. The chip must meet power specs and hashrate by shipping time as well, which means they must disclose this information to me for the bet to be valid. If they are unwilling to take this bet, they obviously do not stand behind their product and are just trying to steal more from the community.
BA, you have really learned from BFL and have overtaken them on many regards. It is time to die, you have lost too much reputation and are too scumy to continue operations. Pack it up and die you sons of bitches.
Remember how they said how quick of a process it would be once the chips were received, and now, months later, they have barely made a dent in their shipping queue?
Remember how they have said multiple lies on various subjects and continue to lie and defraud customers by mining with customer equipment?
If you order a scrypt miner from BA, I can guarantee 95% that it will not be available in December. I will have no remorse for you and your lost money, and instead will laugh at you because you are obviously ignorant. If you even think about ordering from a company that will not release the full chip specs, you deserve to lose your money!
They still haven't released their specs of the SHA-256 chip yet. Bobsag had to do that, and they never commented on those stats or about the chip frequency.
Also remember how they completely missed their power targets between tape out and final chip production. They also completely missed on almost every other aspect of the miner, or they have been self mining and have been lying about messing things up, either way do you want to do business with a lying company or an incompetent one? Come to think of it, they lied and are incompetent.
I am willing to put up 1 btc into a trusted escrow against BA that a functioning scrypt miner will not be shipped by the end of December from them. The chip must meet power specs and hashrate by shipping time as well, which means they must disclose this information to me for the bet to be valid. If they are unwilling to take this bet, they obviously do not stand behind their product and are just trying to steal more from the community.
BA, you have really learned from BFL and have overtaken them on many regards. It is time to die, you have lost too much reputation and are too scumy to continue operations. Pack it up and die you sons of bitches.
https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/scrypt-asic-tape-out.html
"Black Arrow has completed the design of a energy efficient 28nm Scrypt ASIC and it is ready for tape-out. ASICs can be received in early December should we tape-out in the following few days.
We are currently looking for partners. Depending on investment we can offer wafer price.
At this point it is possible to manufacture ASICs to double the whole LTC network (1 Petahash) with a reasonable price. Please contact us if you are interested.
The efficiency of this chip is better than 3Watt / Megahash."
That's ^^^^ where our money went, obviously. And yay for them. Who couldn't root for a company with a keen sense of humour and with spare capacity to learn, as indicated on their site?
They are learning on the job, with our money, and their sense of humour seems a bit lacking, from what I've seen. More like a bunch of spoiled children that are shocked that their customers are pissed after being bilked out of thousands of dollars.
What are the qualifications for 'partners' I wonder? willingness to defraud consumers and shatter consumer laws of various countries a plus, I would imagine.
Maybe these partners can form a shell company to act as face of this new scrypt miner operation. Then we'll have registration in Hong Kong, operations in Shenzhen, some entity in the Virgin Islands, all run by a front company registered somewhere in the Amazon jungle, chaired by a monkey.
Line for pre-orders forms to the left. no pushing. And yes there will be price matching, we'll deliver on time, blah, blah, blah. Our miners will be profitable or all scrypt mining will stop.
no more questions, just get your checkbooks out, drop your pants and bend over for insertion of the 'receipt'.
"Black Arrow has completed the design of a energy efficient 28nm Scrypt ASIC and it is ready for tape-out. ASICs can be received in early December should we tape-out in the following few days.
We are currently looking for partners. Depending on investment we can offer wafer price.
At this point it is possible to manufacture ASICs to double the whole LTC network (1 Petahash) with a reasonable price. Please contact us if you are interested.
The efficiency of this chip is better than 3Watt / Megahash."
That's ^^^^ where our money went, obviously. And yay for them. Who couldn't root for a company with a keen sense of humour and with spare capacity to learn, as indicated on their site?
They are learning on the job, with our money, and their sense of humour seems a bit lacking, from what I've seen. More like a bunch of spoiled children that are shocked that their customers are pissed after being bilked out of thousands of dollars.
What are the qualifications for 'partners' I wonder? willingness to defraud consumers and shatter consumer laws of various countries a plus, I would imagine.
Maybe these partners can form a shell company to act as face of this new scrypt miner operation. Then we'll have registration in Hong Kong, operations in Shenzhen, some entity in the Virgin Islands, all run by a front company registered somewhere in the Amazon jungle, chaired by a monkey.
Line for pre-orders forms to the left. no pushing. And yes there will be price matching, we'll deliver on time, blah, blah, blah. Our miners will be profitable or all scrypt mining will stop.
no more questions, just get your checkbooks out, drop your pants and bend over for insertion of the 'receipt'.
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