Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 48. (Read 96804 times)

https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/scrypt-asic-tape-out.html

"Black Arrow has completed the design of a energy efficient 28nm Scrypt ASIC and it is ready for tape-out. ASICs can be received in early December should we tape-out in the following few days.
We are currently looking for partners. Depending on investment we can offer wafer price.
At this point it is possible to manufacture ASICs to double the whole LTC network (1 Petahash) with a reasonable price. Please contact us if you are interested.
The efficiency of this chip is better than 3Watt / Megahash."



That's ^^^^ where our money went, obviously.  And yay for them.  Who couldn't root for a company with a keen sense of humour and with spare capacity to learn, as indicated on their site?  

They are learning on the job, with our money, and their sense of humour seems a bit lacking, from what I've seen.  More like a bunch of spoiled children that are shocked that their customers are pissed after being bilked out of thousands of dollars.


What are the qualifications for 'partners' I wonder?  willingness to defraud consumers and shatter consumer laws of various countries a plus, I would imagine.

Maybe these partners can form a shell company to act as face of this new scrypt miner operation.  Then we'll have registration in Hong Kong, operations in Shenzhen, some entity in the Virgin Islands, all run by a front company registered somewhere in the Amazon jungle, chaired by a monkey.  

Line for pre-orders forms to the left.  no pushing.  And yes there will be price matching, we'll deliver on time, blah, blah, blah.  Our miners will be profitable or all scrypt mining will stop.

no more questions, just get your checkbooks out, drop your pants and bend over for insertion of the 'receipt'.

It is bullshit.  In fact, they said repeatedly that they were not getting the majority of the money from preorders.  Said it on this thread and said it in this article.

http://bitcoinexaminer.org/alex-berk-black-arrow-as-soon-as-14nm-is-available-well-release-a-new-asic-that-will-outperform-any-other-14nm-designs/

Chinese consumer law also apparently says that in terms of pre-orders this money has to be kept in a separate account.

And yes, their TOS indicate Hong Kong law FOR THE TOS.  The plant is in China.  It stands to reason that you cannot set up a factory in China, or any other country, and simply ignore the laws there so you can do whatever you please, and strip people of their legal rights.  

Or maybe the Chinese are just fine with people throwing up factories and just doing whatever the hell they want.  From what I've seen they're totally fine with that type of loose cannon behavior.  /sarcasm

that's hilarious.  It's pretty hard to make me laugh on this topic, but that did it.

send us more money.  actually made me laugh out loud.




sure BA, that payment will go out NEXT WEEK.

I agree completely.  Look at their past behavior and how they've dangled other similar things out there and then pulled them back when they were no longer of use.

1.  Price matching.  Promised it all along, told people to wait until time of shipment for further details.  Shipment began and they ditched it.  Not partially, based on their silly this vs. that component excuse.  Totally threw it over the side.  As soon as it was no longer of use as a carrot to keep people quiet and from litigating in droves they dumped it.

2.  Refunds.  Same thing happened here.  We'll get to it, we'll get to it.  Please be patient.  Everyone's busy building miners (but not too busy to develop a scrypt chip).   Please don't organize and sue the hell out of us.  Then what?  Shipping started and people in the refund queue that had been told they would be getting refunds started getting their miners.

In terms of compensation, it makes no sense that I can see to not ship the comp with the orders.  Based on their penny pinching ways to this point does it make sense that they'd incur further shipping cost to fire off packages around the planet at some future point?  To me, it does not.

How 'splitting' it does makes sense is that by shipping the bulk of orders now the liability is greatly reduced, reducing the likelihood that people will organize to chase them down for comp unit that's pretty much worth next to nothing anyhow a few months from now.

IMO, all of these things have been a fraud from minute 1.  It looks to me like they've strung people along with promises that were false from the outset and designed to do nothing but mollify people and keep mass litigation at bay.  

Compensation is no different, IMO.  Based on their actions on the above I do not think they intend to ship comp and I doubt they ever did.

yep, I think this promise of compensation is an outright lie.  I think price matching was an outright lie all along.  I think their telling people they would refund their money was an outright lie all along.  They can easily disprove any of those opinions by simply delivering on these things, although I'm not holding my breath.

think of a promise they've actually kept to the aggregate group of customers that would cost them a dime.  I can't think of one.  not a single one.  

I can tick off several major ones broken, not to mention shipping dates, facility capacity, etc., etc., etc., but I cannot think of one they've kept to their customers en masse.  

are we supposed to believe that it's just been a string of unlikely events totally beyond their control or is it more likely that this was a strategy that utilized bad faith dealings to string people along?  I'll let people decide that for themselves, I guess.

When BFL starts to look good relative to Black Arrow you know they've really rung the bell of failure.

How could any company be this bad.

It's like they try to fail.

Or they're mining with the X-3's and that's why they're not going out, which seems more likely to me.

proven track record?   of what, exactly?  their miners are now 6 months late because they had one issue after the next, they're no longer price competitive at time of delivery and have a snowball's chance in hell of ROI'ing.


what they have proven is that they will tell people anything to get their money and then break those promises when it suits them.

remember this one?




or this?



or this?

BA vs Intel!



battle royal for chip world supremacy.


In other news:

Bill Gates/Microsoft vs a 6th grade gamer in a race to develop the next gen OS.


Odds are about the same in both cases.




It really is insanely funny in a way.  Not thousands of dollars worth of funny, but they can knock 10 bucks off what they owe me for the sheer comedy of them claiming to have a successful track record and claiming they'll ship their 14nm chips in the same relative timeframe as Intel.

it's seriously hysterical.  WTF are these guys smoking?  Whatever it is, I want some.  It's Friday, I'm looking to get my buzz on and there is no doubt in my mind that these guys have the best reality-bending shit in town.

Intel just released a 14nm, I think.

http://chipdesignmag.com/sld/blog/2014/08/29/deeper-dive-intels-14nm-august-29-2014/

But that's Intel.   And they've just recently accomplished it.  first devices with it to come out towards the end of this year.  devices for OEMs in the first half of next year.

and BA is going to ship in the first half of next year also?  


yah I don't think so.  you'd have to be drunk as a monkey on a rum boat to think they could successfully accomplish this within any  reasonable time or best the competition in getting there when it does happen.

From Bitcointalk.

BlackArrow is throwing a hissy fit.
http://ecointalk.net/topic/1270-free-pcb-design-for-minions/page-2
_______________________________________________________________________________ ________________________
blackarrow, on 29 Aug 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:
Let's make something very clear: You, all customers combined, covered less than 40% of the expenses.

We, Black Arrow, have covered most part of this project. We only have 1.5T active mining (0.5 x X3, and 2 x X1.5). They are only to test if the design is stable and to fix software issues. We have always put our customers first!

Your expense? Really? It is our expense! You have paid us until February 28. That was the business plan and based on that we've priced your miner. Since then we are paying out of our pockets various mistakes made by us but mostly other companies. We have not given up and we got your miner out and it works faster than we've promised. If we were to give up you would have received back exactly what MtGox's clients got: nothing.

And what would you like us to do now? Get our PCB designers to assemble your miners and doing unqualified work? Or should we fire them after working 18 hours per day to fix a mistake that was not Black Arrow's? They made your miner a reality!

You said that you want cheaper hashing! We have listened and offered 14.4T in chips instead of 2T in miners.

You complained that you cannot do anything with the chips. We gave you the design: Here is a USB version without case, without copper pipes. It cannot get cheaper than this.
_______________________________________________________________________________ ____________________



no-one is asking anything other than what was promised to them and, based on those promises, what they paid for.  and based on the word of BA and YOU, the refunds they asked for and were promised.


On this thread and on ecointalk YOU promised refunds, YOU promised price matching, YOU promised on time delivery.

Here is your statement on refunds from ecointalk.  You know, from the thread on refunds that Black Arrow has now deleted from it's forum:
__________________________________________________________________________
blackarrow
Advanced Member

Moderators

148 posts


Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:34 AM
Dear Customer,
 
USD refunds will be issued in May.
_____________________________________________________________________________

There was no 'maybe' on that ^^^.  A very clear statement that refunds would be issued in May.  Just in case you are not aware it is now nearly September and they have not happened.

There was no 'maybe' on price matching.  I can post your words on those again if you need reminding of them.

It seems to me that YOU BlackArrow have lied to the customers over and over again.


Your company has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more from people, refusing them their refunds, are delivering product that is no longer of any use after they sent you thousands of dollars,  and you are now angry that they are angry.

You are insane, or blind, or both.

some of us are.

I'd agree that if people want to see something done they should take action.

up to this point I think people are waiting to see some evidence that something would work, and then jump onboard.  hoping someone else would take the risk, do the work, and make it simple.

nothing is going to be simple here.  as a group our voices are more likely to be heard, so waiting for someone else hurts your chances of anything getting done.

As the returns/value on these diminish day by day, so does the risk of doing something right along with it.  

People have to make their own decisions, of course, but I don't see the point in doing nothing.

what can they do if you take formal action?  deliver this piece of shit?  knock you to the back of the line?  not deliver at all?  Go bankrupt? who cares, who cares, who cares, and who cares as far as I'm concerned.
 

deleting posts again.  no problem. that's what copy/paste is for.

maybe you could add that to the functionality of the junk you are shipping to consumers.

I'm sure the Hong Kong CC will be very interested in this manner of dealing with the most simple customer inquiry possible:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/steamowner-valve-taken-to-court-by-accc-over-alleged-violations/story-fnkgdftz-1227041421564


"ACCC chairman Rod Sims said: “The Australian Consumer Law applies to any business providing goods or services within Australia. Valve may be an American-based company with no physical presence in Australia, but it is carrying on business in Australia by selling to Australian consumers, who are protected by Australian Consumer Law.
“It is a breach of the Australian Consumer Law for businesses to state that they do not give refunds under any circumstances, including for gifts and during sales. Under the Australian Consumer Law, consumers can insist on a refund or replacement at their option if a product has a major fault.
“The consumer guarantees provided under the Australian Consumer Law cannot be excluded, restricted or modified.”

The only real impediment to filing a complaint is that BA is constantly feeding us amazing statements to include in the claim. That last hissy fit is definitely something that Hing Kong authorities need to see.

What on earth do you mean, "I did nothing"?  I very clearly explained what I did, and look what happened.  I got my money back, and I bought 5 S3's with a month of hosting!  I have counselled many people, both on this forum as well as on ecointalk, about what they can/should do.  According to my counsel, I do not have any types of claim against BA at this time, but deterring future customers, AKA cash flow for them, is what i can continue to do.

Also, I could give a shit about what bothers them.  They obviously take time to come in here and delete my posts and that gives me some satisfaction, knowing that I am a small thorn in their asses.

It seems we are on the same team here, but you are going about it wrong by telling everyone that what they have done is incorrect up to this point.  So, based on what you have been saying, it is safe to assume you have retained a legal team and are ready to hit them?  Please share with us where you are at with that?

Way to jump in with accusation that no one is doing anything and only complaining.  Perhaps start by asking what is being done or what has been done instead of lumping everyone together.

For your information, I ordered through their re seller and met with legal council multiple times.  Fortunately, I was able to come to a mutually beneficial deal with MS and avoided having to pursue anything in the court system.  But I have also filed with various agencies (not against MS) to hopefully have someone take a look at BA more substantially, government body wise that is.

Now, my goal is continually remind BA and hopefully shed light to future potential customers about who BA really is, in order to deter them from ordering with BA.  And don't think for a second that this board is as far as it goes.  I continually find ways to spread their reputation so that as many people as possible can see who BA is and what they are about, mainly screwing over their customers.

some of us are.

I'd agree that if people want to see something done they should take action.

up to this point I think people are waiting to see some evidence that something would work, and then jump onboard.  hoping someone else would take the risk, do the work, and make it simple.

nothing is going to be simple here.  as a group our voices are more likely to be heard, so waiting for someone else hurts your chances of anything getting done.

As the returns/value on these diminish day by day, so does the risk of doing something right along with it. 

People have to make their own decisions, of course, but I don't see the point in doing nothing.

what can they do if you take formal action?  deliver this piece of shit?  knock you to the back of the line?  not deliver at all?  Go bankrupt? who cares, who cares, who cares, and who cares as far as I'm concerned.
 

From Bitcointalk.

BlackArrow is throwing a hissy fit.
http://ecointalk.net/topic/1270-free-pcb-design-for-minions/page-2
_______________________________________________________________________________ ________________________
blackarrow, on 29 Aug 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:
Let's make something very clear: You, all customers combined, covered less than 40% of the expenses.

We, Black Arrow, have covered most part of this project. We only have 1.5T active mining (0.5 x X3, and 2 x X1.5). They are only to test if the design is stable and to fix software issues. We have always put our customers first!

Your expense? Really? It is our expense! You have paid us until February 28. That was the business plan and based on that we've priced your miner. Since then we are paying out of our pockets various mistakes made by us but mostly other companies. We have not given up and we got your miner out and it works faster than we've promised. If we were to give up you would have received back exactly what MtGox's clients got: nothing.

And what would you like us to do now? Get our PCB designers to assemble your miners and doing unqualified work? Or should we fire them after working 18 hours per day to fix a mistake that was not Black Arrow's? They made your miner a reality!

You said that you want cheaper hashing! We have listened and offered 14.4T in chips instead of 2T in miners.

You complained that you cannot do anything with the chips. We gave you the design: Here is a USB version without case, without copper pipes. It cannot get cheaper than this.
_______________________________________________________________________________ ____________________



no-one is asking anything other than what was promised to them and, based on those promises, what they paid for.  and based on the word of BA and YOU, the refunds they asked for and were promised.


On this thread and on ecointalk YOU promised refunds, YOU promised price matching, YOU promised on time delivery.

Here is your statement on refunds from ecointalk.  You know, from the thread on refunds that Black Arrow has now deleted from it's forum:
__________________________________________________________________________
blackarrow
Advanced Member

Moderators

148 posts


Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:34 AM
Dear Customer,
 
USD refunds will be issued in May.
_____________________________________________________________________________

There was no 'maybe' on that ^^^.  A very clear statement that refunds would be issued in May.  Just in case you are not aware it is now nearly September and they have not happened.

There was no 'maybe' on price matching.  I can post your words on those again if you need reminding of them.

It seems to me that YOU BlackArrow have lied to the customers over and over again.


Your company has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more from people, refusing them their refunds, are delivering product that is no longer of any use after they sent you thousands of dollars,  and you are now angry that they are angry.

You are insane, or blind, or both.