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Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 49. (Read 96796 times)

legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 1012
Get Paid Crypto To Walk or Drive
My goodness, this Stuart from Logic Ethos is cracking me up.  Look at this statement
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Disasters aside, BA did come good on the Minion, and they learned some important lessons in the process.  A good reason to keep your Prosperos when you get them.  It's a lot easier to manufacture and ship a lot of upgrade boards, than manufacture new machines.  An easy way for BA to get some of their investment back quickly.

Can this guy get anymore thick?  Certainly he has to work for BA because any other re seller dare not speak their name anymore.  My favorite is where he said its a lot easier to manufacture and ship a lot of upgrade boards, than manufacture new machines.  BULL SHIT!!!!  So your saying that designing a new, 14NM CHIP AT THAT, and get a working board is easier than designing the case and plugging in a fan???!!!!?Huh  What an idiot statement.  And yes, I called you an idiot because that is the stupidest crap I have ever heard!  I would be willing to bet that this, "next generation machine" will not have a case, or LCD, or any other bells and whistles, and you know why!!!!  Because they don't fucking matter and should be easier than shit to get together!  There is no way that getting a fully functioning chip and board is easier than getting nothing, which is the other components of a good working machine.  And their investment back quickly!  Do you know how much it costs to tape out a 28nm process, much less a 14nm node?
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I don't know much about chip manufacturing, other than basic principles.  My eyes glazed over when I got the talk from BA engineers.  Back in my days of electronics, it was single layer PCBs which looked like they had been hand etched, and resistors you could see with the naked eye.  I had a resistor colour chart on the wall.  Now you need a microscope, to even see some of these components.
Obviously not!  BA doesn't have the money for another tape out of the current design, much less a smaller dimension that isn't even out for consumers yet!  Why else would they solicit investors for their future projects?  Unless their end goal is to hedge risk, in which case, they are already expecting their project to fail, which really isn't that surprising.



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Let's make something very clear: You, all customers combined, covered less than 40% of the expenses.
 
We, Black Arrow, have covered most part of this project. We only have 1.5T active mining (0.5 x X3, and 2 x X1.5). They are only to test if the design is stable and to fix software issues. We have always put our customers first!
 
Your expense? Really? It is our expense! You have paid us until February 28. That was the business plan and based on that we've priced your miner. Since then we are paying out of our pockets various mistakes made by us but mostly other companies. We have not given up and we got your miner out and it works faster than we've promised. If we were to give up you would have received back exactly what MtGox's clients got: nothing.
 
And what would you like us to do now? Get our PCB designers to assemble your miners and doing unqualified work? Or should we fire them after working 18 hours per day to fix a mistake that was not Black Arrow's? They made your miner a reality!
 
You said that you want cheaper hashing! We have listened and offered 14.4T in chips instead of 2T in miners.
 
You complained that you cannot do anything with the chips. We gave you the design: Here is a USB version without case, without copper pipes. It cannot get cheaper than this.

Check out this gem they posted back on their forums.  Still not taking any responsibility are ya BA?  All your customers faults and other companies.  BULL SHIT you scammy pieces of shit.  Grow up and understand that your word is worth less than BFL Josh's at this point.  Your entire forum as well as this one is an ode to your death and destruction.  I can't even find one customer going back multiple pages on either that is happy with the product/service provided by BA.  Why do you continue to try to create projects?  Your involvement in the crypto world is dead, no one wants you around and no one wants your attempt at over engineered mining devices.  And now, we covered less than 40% of costs!  Then why can't you refund shit?  You don't even want your own product, so after using it for months, you force it upon your customers instead of giving refunds.  Your lower than low and I hope your executives continue to be too depressed to read what their customers have to say about them, it will make it all more confusing for them when they inevitably die.
legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 1012
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Hm. That's kind of like... odd... isn't it?

Taking a break from reading BFL bashing, wondering how other chip vendors are doing.

Welcome to the thread!  Lots of bashing going around here as BA is the closest competitor to BFL at the moment.  Feel free to leave words of hatred at your leisure, and stay around for, "What I would do to anyone of BA's staff if I ever met them anonymous."  Lots of round table discussions at that meeting.  Kick off your shoes and join in the fun!
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
BA vs Intel!



battle royal for chip world supremacy.


In other news:

Bill Gates/Microsoft vs a 6th grade gamer in a race to develop the next gen OS.


Odds are about the same in both cases.




It really is insanely funny in a way.  Not thousands of dollars worth of funny, but they can knock 10 bucks off what they owe me for the sheer comedy of them claiming to have a successful track record and claiming they'll ship their 14nm chips in the same relative timeframe as Intel.

it's seriously hysterical.  WTF are these guys smoking?  Whatever it is, I want some.  It's Friday, I'm looking to get my buzz on and there is no doubt in my mind that these guys have the best reality-bending shit in town.

legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 1012
Get Paid Crypto To Walk or Drive
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yah I don't think so.  you'd have to be drunk as a monkey on a rum boat to think they could successfully accomplish this within any  reasonable time or best the competition in getting there when it does happen.


I bolded the part that accurately must describe every member of BA.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Wow, just wow, these sorry excuses for human beings won't just die will they?  I will be the first to call Bull Shit on a 14nm node process ASIC chip used for SHA-256 hashing!  There is simply no way.  How could BA do that when successful Bitcoin ASIC companies can't yet, and for that matter, any other chip producer such as Intel!  They are just lying to get more money.

Although notice that with their Scrypt ASIC chip and now this one, they are no longer taking preorders and instead are looking for funding from individuals or even other ASIC manufacturers!  There is no way they have the money to do another tape out.  They are scrounging for scraps and I doubt anyone will throw them any given their history of being complete fuck ups.

Justification for having no more money...
Why would you seek partners or investors if you could tape it out yourselves?  Unless you aren't confident in your own product and don't want to sustain a huge loss yourselves.

Either way, this company has proven incompetence time and time again.  In fact, incompetence is putting it too nicely.  They have lied, scammed, and cheated their way through this entire production run of miners, which barely function according to roughly half the people who received them.

It will be a beautiful day when the authorities catch these fuckers and karma gets its sweet sweet revenge.


Intel just released a 14nm, I think.

http://chipdesignmag.com/sld/blog/2014/08/29/deeper-dive-intels-14nm-august-29-2014/

But that's Intel.   And they've just recently accomplished it.  first devices with it to come out towards the end of this year.  devices for OEMs in the first half of next year.

and BA is going to ship in the first half of next year also? 


yah I don't think so.  you'd have to be drunk as a monkey on a rum boat to think they could successfully accomplish this within any  reasonable time or best the competition in getting there when it does happen.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
But wait, there's more!

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/14nm-bitcoin-asic-announcement.html

So ... do we get some free units of these for our trouble??  We paid "helped" to pay for this development after all.....

Haha what a fuckin' joke!

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"Black Arrow Ltd has already a proven track record in successfully manufacture Bitcoin mining hardware at extremely competitive prices using shorter full lifecycle than their competition without compromising the top quality required the highly-competitive niche market."

Are these dicks on the same planet as us? Successfully manufacture? Extremely competitive prices? Just piss off and go bankrupt already you criminals


proven track record?   of what, exactly?  their miners are now 6 months late because they had one issue after the next, they're no longer price competitive at time of delivery and have a snowball's chance in hell of ROI'ing.


what they have proven is that they will tell people anything to get their money and then break those promises when it suits them.

remember this one?


If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders?  Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways.  The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.

Customers who pre-order and pay now have 25% discount. Our promise is that we will ensure that customers who preorder now will always get a better deal than customers who order later.

At the same time we promise that our prices will be below market price at the time we ship.

This means that customers that preorder now will have considerable lower market prices by the time that we ship which puts them in advantage towards anybody else.

Unless Bitcoin mining stops because it becomes unprofitable for everybody else in February, our customers WILL make profit.




or this?

After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow it's starting to feel like the companies will promise you anything and everything just to get your money.  Even if it makes no sense.  What's the point of them getting capital now if they guarantee to drop the prices to whatever the market price will be in the future and have to return most of that capital?  I don't mind gambling but when the gamble is just some vague guarantee promise that isn't rooted in reality that's just one more hurdle to overcome besides the fact of sending non refundable to btc to some outfit in china and hoping for the best on a proposition that's many months away.

Everybody until now sold you hardware that they knew that you're going to loose money because 1 month later they announced something faster at a better price.
We are guaranteeing that this won't happen with us: If we drop the price you'll get even faster hardware, keeping you in front of everybody else.



or this?

I'd like to make sure I understand what you are guaranteeing.  You are saying that if I preorder now I am guaranteed a price 25% below market price.  How will market price be defined?  

Yes, you are guaranteed to get a price 25% below the market price ($/ghash) at the time of shipment.
And yes, we will keep our prices below every other company.

Bottom line is, whoever trusts us now, we promise that will help them to mine profitably after February as well. If you keep supporting other companies who have ripped you off until now, you'll barely get your ROI back.


legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 1012
Get Paid Crypto To Walk or Drive
Wow, just wow, these sorry excuses for human beings won't just die will they?  I will be the first to call Bull Shit on a 14nm node process ASIC chip used for SHA-256 hashing!  There is simply no way.  How could BA do that when successful Bitcoin ASIC companies can't yet, and for that matter, any other chip producer such as Intel!  They are just lying to get more money.

Although notice that with their Scrypt ASIC chip and now this one, they are no longer taking preorders and instead are looking for funding from individuals or even other ASIC manufacturers!  There is no way they have the money to do another tape out.  They are scrounging for scraps and I doubt anyone will throw them any given their history of being complete fuck ups.

Justification for having no more money...
Why would you seek partners or investors if you could tape it out yourselves?  Unless you aren't confident in your own product and don't want to sustain a huge loss yourselves.

Either way, this company has proven incompetence time and time again.  In fact, incompetence is putting it too nicely.  They have lied, scammed, and cheated their way through this entire production run of miners, which barely function according to roughly half the people who received them.

It will be a beautiful day when the authorities catch these fuckers and karma gets its sweet sweet revenge.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
I think all the "USED" 1Th/s BitFury units BA has for sale speaks volumes about why they haven't gone bankrupt. Must have been nice cashing out at $1100 during December.

Has BA mined and are they continuing to mine a fantastic amount of money all on our dime?

I'm going with yep, probably.  X-3's started going out to resellers weeks ago.  did they just stop building them?   or is it more likely they're mining with them.

their used bitfuries have probably gotten to the point where they're no longer profitable, so they're trying to sell useless junk to people.  you know, in the same way that they're selling useless junk as their primary products right now in the X-1 and X-3.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
I think all the "USED" 1Th/s BitFury units BA has for sale speaks volumes about why they haven't gone bankrupt. Must have been nice cashing out at $1100 during December.

Has BA mined and are they continuing to mine a fantastic amount of money all on our dime?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
I noticed BA deleted the entire REFUNDS thread on eCoinTalk.

yep.   good thing someone already printed much of it out to pdf.....
member
Activity: 120
Merit: 73
Quoted by Waramp22 in another thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=681965.40
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just pasting this in here, as I imagine BA will delete it from the self moderated thread.

The company is registered in Hong Kong, so the proper agency from what I have been able to find out so far is the Hong Kong Consumer Council.

They request some documents and need to establish that this is a Hong Kong registered company  before they will agree to pick it up, therefore:

Send the annual report http://www.kiwi.nz/blackarrow/PS300015776549_01.pdf

along with the documents they have requested.  Those documents are:

1.  The invoice showing you paid
2   your bank or payment records showing the payment
3.  any e-mail or support discussions  you've had
4.  The annual report referenced above.

Here's the link to file a complaint if you decide you want to do that.

https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en

Also indicate that their TOS indicates Hong Kong law and paste that in to your message.

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/terms-and-conditions-en.html#purchase

15.2 Applicable law and dispute resolution
16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC.

This is all the information they will need to pick this up.  They have been very helpful and responsive.  If that goes nowhere, Shenzhen Consumer Group, with which I have also been talking and then the lawyers will be next.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
I noticed BA deleted the entire REFUNDS thread on eCoinTalk.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
[Shipping product]

   BFL: Yes (Monarchs)
   BA: No (Prospero X3)

[Power at the wall]

   BFL: 0.7W/Gh
   BA: 1W/Gh

[Refunds]

   BFL: Yes
   BA: No

hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
I've seen consumer alerts on the Consumer Council's site for companies with 70 complaints.  I do not see Black Arrow listed.

is it possible that not even 70 people filed a complaint against Black arrow after all of their actions against customers and all of this time.

the council does take action, will visit the business if it does not respond,  and has legal actions at it's disposal, but they're not going to do much if people don't actually let them know there is a problem.

stop waiting for 'someone else'

they're fucking YOU.  do something about it.




Maybe we can buy their email list like others already?

Then we could notify everyone of the complaint procedure one-shot.
Lol that'd be really genius actually. I wouldn't mind seeing someone do that Tongue
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 500
I've seen consumer alerts on the Consumer Council's site for companies with 70 complaints.  I do not see Black Arrow listed.

is it possible that not even 70 people filed a complaint against Black arrow after all of their actions against customers and all of this time.

the council does take action, will visit the business if it does not respond,  and has legal actions at it's disposal, but they're not going to do much if people don't actually let them know there is a problem.

stop waiting for 'someone else'

they're fucking YOU.  do something about it.




Maybe we can buy their email list like others already?

Then we could notify everyone of the complaint procedure one-shot.
donator
Activity: 4760
Merit: 4323
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Come on BA, you're right on track for unseating BFL for being the worst shipping manufacturer!

Don't forget CoinTerra.  They shipped an underperforming power hog that is loud as hell and needs special cooling.  I'm getting 1/2 the rate I paid for at twice the power consumption and it needs it's own A/C line to stay running.  Total garbage.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
When BFL starts to look good relative to Black Arrow you know they've really rung the bell of failure.

How could any company be this bad.

It's like they try to fail.

Or they're mining with the X-3's and that's why they're not going out, which seems more likely to me.
sr. member
Activity: 402
Merit: 250
I've seen consumer alerts on the Consumer Council's site for companies with 70 complaints.  I do not see Black Arrow listed.

is it possible that not even 70 people filed a complaint against Black arrow after all of their actions against customers and all of this time.

the council does take action, will visit the business if it does not respond,  and has legal actions at it's disposal, but they're not going to do much if people don't actually let them know there is a problem.

stop waiting for 'someone else'

they're fucking YOU.  do something about it.


sr. member
Activity: 402
Merit: 250
People that have filed with the consumer council should follow up with the cc if they have not gotten a reply. 

people need to speak up to let them know that their case is still relevant.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
WOW. I don't know if it is good news, or bad news, but i received my two x-1 units that i ordered from black arrow, 11 months ago, today. No emails or anything about shipping. Didn't plug them in yet. Not really dying to either. Woulda been a little excited about them 4 months ago, now, blech.

How were they shipped?  by what carrier?
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