Topic: Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers. - page 115. (Read 636455 times)

French Government Warns Eating Nutella Causes Global Warming…






PARIS – France’s environment minister, Segolene Royal, has rankled the company that makes Nutella by urging the public to stop eating its irresistible chocolate hazelnut spread, saying it contributes to deforestation.

“We have to replant a lot of trees because there is massive deforestation that also leads to global warming. We should stop eating Nutella, for example, because it’s made with palm oil,” Royal said in an interview late Monday on the French television network Canal+.

“Oil palms have replaced trees, and therefore caused considerable damage to the environment,” she explained.

Nutella, she said, should be made from “other ingredients.”

The comments needled Ferrero, the giant Italian chocolate group that makes Nutella.

Without referring to Royal directly, the company issued a statement Tuesday saying it was aware of the environmental stakes and had made commitments to source palm oil in a responsible manner.

Ferrero gets nearly 80 percent of its palm oil from Malaysia. The rest of its supply comes from Papua New Guinea, Indonesia and Brazil.

Two and a half years ago, French senators tried to impose a 300 percent tax on palm oil, saying it was dangerously fattening and its cultivation was bad for the environment. The measure was defeated.



http://www.ticotimes.net/2015/06/16/stop-eating-nutella-urges-french-environment-minister

I wish NASA would come up with a map showing how The Blob will move from The Pacific to The North Atlantic to do something about that falling sea temperature.

Norway – Coldest first half of June in 92 years

JUNE 17, 2015

“We are having the coldest June in 92 years here in middle of Norway,” says reader Tomas Idunno.

Quote translate using google translate:

“Coldest June in 92 years. You have every reason to complain about the weather. Trøndelag has not experienced such a cold first half of June since 1923.“Since the daily measurements of mean (average temperature through the day) began in Trondheim in 1870, it has been measured an even colder first half of June only once, 92 years ago.”
Maybe someone should tell the Pope.

http://www.adressa.no/vaeret/article11210577.ece

Camel Fossils Found In Arctic Suggest Ancient Creatures Roamed Region 3.5 Million Years Ago





Studies Portray Tropical Arctic in Distant Past


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/01/science/earth/01climate.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0



Study: North Pole Once Was Tropical


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-north-pole-once-was-tropical/




Tropical Turtle Fossil Discovered in the High Arctic


http://www.wired.com/2009/02/tropical-turtle/


This discussion got stupid a long time ago, like in the last half-million years,  so I really shouldn't be replying, but I'm doing it anyway....



You are welcome anytime. Always. This thread has a carbon foot print of...

 

I assume you are talking in general terms.  Fine.  We seem to be at a warm spell near the top of the recent (last million years or so) sequence in inter-glaciations.  This one seems to have  not reached the ultimate spike noted prior but has had a longer duration.  I'd not be surprised if the ice caps reflected this.  I also would not be surprised if humans had some impact on things since this 'table top' attribute I mentioned spans the timeframe that humans turned into real farmers and firebugs.

The problem that 'social justice warriors' and their guiding hands have is that none of this stuff is attributable to fossil fuel utilization and that is where the money is at.  When they put effort into nixing the medieval warming period and 'hiding the decline' and such it destroys the very science we need to actually understand this stuff.  Using science is at least interesting and there is some chance that it could be genuinely valuable if some action is legitimately appropriate.  That is my chief complaint against your types.

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One of many such graphs...most of them dubious to me since they seem to indicate a higher degree of precision than I feel is likely obtainable from proxy records:

And yet those ice sheets that we count on for the regulatory effect, are getting smaller and smaller.....  We have less ice at the poles now than we've had at any time in the last half-million years, and if that regulatory effect goes, we're leaving Icehouse Earth.

If you want to worry about snowball Earth think Lake Toba.


This one is just 25 miles away

Indonesia: Mount Sinabung erupts spewing ash into the sky

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/indonesia-mount-sinabung-erupts-spewing-ash-into-sky-1506423

And:

Toba Volcano, according to reports in the Indonesian media, is presently producing large emissions of steam and the ground in the area around the volcano is giving off foul odors of gas. Locals have also reported feeling the ground hot under their feet. .....

http://www.inquisitr.com/2160555/indonesias-lake-toba-supervolcano-threatens-global-volcanic-winter-eruption-caused-mass-extinction-75-000-years-ago/

We'll likely get hit by another large object before we need to worry about a major climate shift, and even if such a shift comes we'll have many generations to adapt.  It's unlikely that CO2 from fossil fuels will have any impact on anything on these major scales.  There simply doesn't seem to be enough of it available accd to Murry Salby who makes a pretty strong case for this as I see things.

Seems to me that what 'some people' are mostly worried about is how to turn weather events and/or minor climate variations, or the perceptions of them, into money.  A whole bunch more people are worried about such things because the former smaller group told them to be.

Half a billion years ago is quite a long time to be worried about having a repeat, but if you wish to, knock yourself out.  As Ken Keasey once said, "Don't make me take your bad trip."  The only vaguely plausible way I can see to create a major shift in the climate in an unusually short period of time would be to really really go to town with geo-engineering in an attempt to 'save the world'...and make a shit-load of money with a fleet of otherwise idle airliners and such of course.

This discussion got stupid a long time ago so I really shouldn't be replying, but I'm doing it anyway....

There are three different main "chaotic attractors" in the state space of earth's climate.  They are called Greenhouse Earth, Icehouse Earth, and Snowball Earth, and under normal circumstances they last for at least millions of years each.  Usually Greenhouse and Icehouse earth alternate with each other; the conditions that lead to a Snowball Earth are not well understood although the geological record shows evidence of them and we have solid modeling that indicates why they have to end.  The Eocene period, ending about 50 million years ago, was a Greenhouse Earth that was followed by an Icehouse Earth;  And during the Permian period, about 300 Million years ago, an Icehouse period was followed by a Greenhouse period.

Snowball Earth is HORRIBLE for survival prospects; it involves the whole planet being covered with ice and snow, forming a reflective surface that sends most solar energy back into space instead of keeping enough of it around to warm up and start melting.  Snowball Earth phases last tens of millions of years, until volcanism builds up enough CO₂ in the atmosphere for the greenhouse effect to trigger melting - but the melting leads to a relatively abrupt switch from reflecting to absorbing solar energy, without removing the greenhouse gases, and that usually sends Earth abruptly into a Hothouse period.  We haven't had a Snowball Earth phase for the last 650 Million years.

Right now we're in an "Icehouse Earth" state, and have been for several million years.  During an Icehouse Earth period, we get "Glacials" or Ice ages, interrupted at 50k-100k year intervals by an "Interglacial" lasting 10K to 20K years.  For the last 11K years or so we've been in an Interglacial period (the Holocene), so the ice sheets that characterize an Icehouse Earth have been small and mostly limited to the polar regions.  Icehouse Earth tends to last until earth's orbital precession and chaotic factors cause the ice sheets to entirely melt, which destroys a regulatory mechanism by which coriolis-driven ocean currents act to regulate earth's temperature by moving heat energy back and forth from the poles to the equator. The end of this regulation usually results in a Greenhouse Earth, but, according to some theories, can also result in a Snowball earth state.

A Greenhouse Earth state would also be bad for our survival prospects, as it is something our species has no evolutionary experience with.  Greenhouse Earth is described as dry, windy, and unstable, with winters just as cold or barely colder, but summers considerably hotter than Icehouse Earth.  Like Icehouse Earths, Greenhouse Earths tend to last for millions of years, until orbital precession and random chaotic processes result in the formation of polar ice sheets at both poles that last for more than a century or two and start the regulatory process of Icehouse Earth back up.

So those are basically the three choices.  Some people are worried about transitioning out of an interglacial into a glacial phase but still within the Icehouse regime (the people talking about a new ice age).  But we can survive an ice age; it would suck but we've done it before.  Other people who are scared are envisioning the complete end of the current Icehouse era and wondering what our odds of survival in a Greenhouse Earth would be like.  That would suck too, and probably harder since we've never evolutionarily adapted to it.  People like me though, are pessimists and harbor dark suspicions and worry that we don't actually know what causes Snowball Earth eras to start. I wonder whether the end of Icehouse-style global temperature regulation will result in a bunch of wild oscillations settling on the near-certain death of our species in a Snowball Earth. I hope not, but I can't help wondering.

Well Spendulus, it´s rather obvious that it´s getting desperate for global warming pushers. And of course the supply of chronically gullible idiots believing all the war scam spin is drying up as well. There´s always a tipping point - I guess. Now even the friggin Pope is going ballistic trying to hold the line and somehow retain the last remnants of believers, the totally brain dead in his own flock.

First of all, these guys were totally wrong in their forecasts previously, so there is zero reason to believe them now.

They have pretty much zero capability to estimate planetary energy balance, it's effect on regional climate, let alone an ability to forecast that into the future. 

However, solar astronomers have warned of the possibility of a "little ice age", and I must mention that is not a trivial thing in this day and age.  That would be a disaster of AGW-hysterical proportions.  Think of the effect of "a year with no summer" on crop yields. 

In the past, declining sunspot activity has led to a mini ice age, and that's what we are seeing with the sun now.  There is another possibility, which is that not a mini, but a real ice age looms.   This is why it is really somewhat dangerous when political hacks parse the arguments into "mini ice age then it's scorching."

Real ice ages are based on orbital precession cycles, and each lasts about half of one cycle.  Guess what?  We are right now, right about half way through one....


http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/21/its-snowing-and-it-really-feels-like-the-start-of-a-mini-ice-age-london-mayor-boris-johnson/

Intense snow and wind in Tierra del Fuego

JUNE 16, 2015

Wind chill falls to below minus 11 degrees Celsius. Maybe someone should tell the Pope. 16 Jun 2015 – Intense snowfall in the province of Tierra del Fuego caused problems in traffic and transport, among other drawbacks. The worst part was for the inhabitants of several districts of Ushuaia, unable to move, without water and gas. Route 3, which links the island province from north to south, was cut entirely for several hours in Ushuaia-Lago stretch hidden by snowfall and low visibility, said National Road, but then was again enabled. In Ushuaia, the storm left the city virtually without transportation. Many were without gas service and water supply due to frozen pipes. “The situation in the districts is terrible, in Dos Banderas, La Cima, ” said Luis Torres, Barrios.

http://noticias.terra.com.ar/argentina/intenso-temporal-de-nieve-y-viento-en-tierra-del-fuego,6ab19ec558f1ed284876f347fdf299075f2vRCRD.html

Frost warnings in Newfoundland

JUNE 16, 2015

“Mid June and they are getting frost warnings still!!!”. Maybe they should tell the Pope. Frost advisories for Avalon Peninsula North, Avalon Peninsula Southwest, Avalon Peninsula Southeast, Bay of Exploits, Bay St. George and Bonavista North.

http://weather.gc.ca/warnings/index_e.html?prov=nl

What a relief. Everything will be absolutely scorching by the year 2100 but until then we´ll enjoy a brief respite of a few decades of cooling. Maybe a mini ice age if we´re really lucky?

A new study out of the United Kingdom predicts the Earth is about to go through a major climatic shift that could mean decades of cooler temperatures and fewer hurricanes hitting the United States.

Scientists at the University of Southampton predict that a cooling of the Atlantic Ocean could cool global temperatures a half a degree Celsius and may offer a “brief respite from the persistent rise of global temperatures,” according to their study.

This cooling phase in the Atlantic will influence “temperature, rainfall, drought and even the frequency of hurricanes in many regions of the world,” says Dr. Gerard McCarthy. The study’s authors based their results on ocean sensor arrays and 100 years of sea-level data.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/28/study-predicts-decades-of-global-cooling-ahead/#ixzz3dGSGXXv0

Lobster Prices Surge – Cold Ocean Temperatures to Blame

JUNE 16, 2015

“Over the past year-and-change, lobster prices have risen sharply,” says this article on the Huffington Post.Lobster“CNN Money attributed the recent spike in prices to this winter’s unusually cold weather in the Northeast. The North Atlantic remains colder than it usually is at this time of year, so lobsters have, by and large, stayed out of reach of fishermen.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/10/lobster-prices-high-rise_n_7546062.html

NASA scientists have created a map to show predicted daily maximum temperature levels across the globe in July 2100, if the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increases from the current 400 parts per million (ppm) to 935.

According to NASA's worst-case scenario prediction - which would involve greenhouse gas emissions more than doubling over the next 85 years - North Africa, the Middle East, parts of Asia, southern and West Coast regions of the US, and some of central south America, would likely experience sizzling average maximum daily heat of well over 45C in July. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/584798/GLOBAL-WARMING-Earth-BLISTERING-daily-heat-over-45C-2100-NASA-map-forecast-climate-change

LOL +1

Allrighty then, I have to help out here.

The video does indeed present an idiot.  This is good, he will find many devout and pious acolytes who bask in the radiance of his idiocy.  But we need to get serious.

SO....To start, you need to understand how and why Climate Change is different than Global Warming.

First of all, Al Gore owned Global Warming, and he got rather boring, so it was necessary to distance.  Second, it just plain stopped warming, but we'd invested all this time and energy into milking the sheeple.

Hey, you want to just let that go to waste?  Shit, no.  So we came up with this Climate Change stuff for the chumps.  Now, here's where it gets a little bit tricky.  Warming was easy to spot, you just beat the chumps the good old hockey stick.  Climate Change is more vague, see?  So here's how you get it across to them all.

Everything BAD that happens from climate, that's something BAD that THEY caused - or the evil frackers, Exxon and those fucking fundamentalist wacko guys.  Everything GOOD that happens from the climate, that's something we praise as the results of our hard work on taxing the chumps for climate control cons, or you know, just stay silent about it because we can take off for Jamaica in our jets when it's nice out anyway.   So that's basically it - the GOOD, the BAD, and the UGLY.

Oh, it looks like I left out one part.  What's the UGLY?

That's the Deniers, see.  They're the ones that don't buy off on our payouts.