Religion of Peace? Why Religion At All - page 3.

styca

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Quote from: BADecker on November 09, 2019, 02:20:15 PM

St. Paul tells us that whatever doesn't come from faith is sin. That means that if an unbeliever in Jesus-salvation makes only one mistake, he is lost because nothing that he does comes from faith. Even the good things are all sin.

Conversely, if a believer in Jesus-salvation does only one good thing in his whole life, Jesus took the punishment for all those sins he did. All that's left is the one good thing. The good thing is done in faith because he is a believer. So he is saved by faith.

So:
Someone who does good for 99.99% of his life but doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell.
Someone who does bad for 99.99% of his life but does believe in Jesus goes to heaven.

So someone can commit all kinds of horrible acts throughout their life, but one good act at the end redeems them? Assuming that act is made in good faith as they suddenly see the light?

BADecker

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Quote from: styca on November 09, 2019, 04:25:56 AM

Quote from: BADecker on November 01, 2019, 07:38:09 PM

Is God getting the thing He wants? If He isn't, why in the world would he want this creation to remain. Do it over in such a way that He gets what He wants. And... He is God, so He is doing exactly that.

How is He doing it? By finding those people who are somehow willing to believe in Him, and be His children. Then, by letting this universe be destroyed, and taking His kids to the new universe He is making. His enemies - the kids who don't want Him - go down with the destruction of this universe.

Let's take some extremes to illustrate a point:

Some people are nominal Christians, they call themselves Christian just because their parents do, but personally they have no interest in religion. They can't quote a word of the bible. Morally, meh. They do some good things and some bad things. Whatever.
Some people are extremely kind, saint-like, will do anything to help other people. Live their whole lives without a thought for their own self-interest. But they were born to Hindu parents and follow Hindu Gods rather than Jesus. They would agree with Jesus's teachings if they heard them, but they haven't heard them, they have their own cultural tradition and Hinduism is the way to go.

Person A goes to heaven and person B goes to hell, right?

We don't know that.

St. Paul tells us that whatever doesn't come from faith is sin. That means that if an unbeliever in Jesus-salvation makes only one mistake, he is lost because nothing that he does comes from faith. Even the good things are all sin.

Conversely, if a believer in Jesus-salvation does only one good thing in his whole life, Jesus took the punishment for all those sins he did. All that's left is the one good thing. The good thing is done in faith because he is a believer. So he is saved by faith.

Cool

styca

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Quote from: BADecker on November 01, 2019, 07:38:09 PM

Is God getting the thing He wants? If He isn't, why in the world would he want this creation to remain. Do it over in such a way that He gets what He wants. And... He is God, so He is doing exactly that.

How is He doing it? By finding those people who are somehow willing to believe in Him, and be His children. Then, by letting this universe be destroyed, and taking His kids to the new universe He is making. His enemies - the kids who don't want Him - go down with the destruction of this universe.

Let's take some extremes to illustrate a point:

Some people are nominal Christians, they call themselves Christian just because their parents do, but personally they have no interest in religion. They can't quote a word of the bible. Morally, meh. They do some good things and some bad things. Whatever.
Some people are extremely kind, saint-like, will do anything to help other people. Live their whole lives without a thought for their own self-interest. But they were born to Hindu parents and follow Hindu Gods rather than Jesus. They would agree with Jesus's teachings if they heard them, but they haven't heard them, they have their own cultural tradition and Hinduism is the way to go.

Person A goes to heaven and person B goes to hell, right?

Balthazar

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Because the majority of people have minor defects in their brain which are causing its malfunction when it comes to morality and related issues. Religion can be considered as either patch or workaround for Human OS and its basic core routines.

GideonGono

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If whatever you truly ask if you want to have the same religion, do you agree? What if there are some religion you need to be was the religion you didn't want so how can you accept the agreement?

I think even me I don't agree for that and that's why we'd never get the same religion anymore.

BADecker

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Quote from: styca on November 01, 2019, 04:31:29 AM

Quote from: BADecker on October 31, 2019, 02:12:59 PM

there will be a resurrection and a judgment, where God will judge everybody as to whose side they were on. This judgment is based on believing in Jesus-salvation.

I'll make an old argument, but it's still a valid one. A person's religion is generally determined by their parents' religion. People are Christians largely because their parents are, same for Muslims.

If God exists (and is not evil) then would he really condemn millions of people based on an accident of birth, on what amounts essentially to pure luck?

You have to ask yourself what a good God is after in creating people at all. The Bible tells us that He wants children, and that people are designed to be His children. So, let's examine this, briefly.

If you have children, but they hate you, ignore you, don't give you credit even though you are supporting you, don't thank you, try to say that you don't exist, kill each other off, and all kinds of other things that you don't want your children to do, how would you feel? Sure, God is way more patient than we are. But He is way more sensitive, as well.

Is God getting the thing He wants? If He isn't, why in the world would he want this creation to remain. Do it over in such a way that He gets what He wants. And... He is God, so He is doing exactly that.

How is He doing it? By finding those people who are somehow willing to believe in Him, and be His children. Then, by letting this universe be destroyed, and taking His kids to the new universe He is making. His enemies - the kids who don't want Him - go down with the destruction of this universe.

Cool

styca

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Quote from: BADecker on October 31, 2019, 02:12:59 PM

there will be a resurrection and a judgment, where God will judge everybody as to whose side they were on. This judgment is based on believing in Jesus-salvation.

I'll make an old argument, but it's still a valid one. A person's religion is generally determined by their parents' religion. People are Christians largely because their parents are, same for Muslims.

If God exists (and is not evil) then would he really condemn millions of people based on an accident of birth, on what amounts essentially to pure luck?

n0ne

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Quote from: BADecker on October 31, 2019, 02:12:59 PM

Quote from: kuyaJ on October 31, 2019, 01:51:53 PM

Quote from: BADecker on October 11, 2019, 07:45:15 PM

Quote from: ashmodeus on October 11, 2019, 06:11:05 PM

yes, that right , because religion can make some confilct, because religion people can hate each other,because religion,people can feel arrogant.
i still have no idea why people using religion for satisfy worldly passions.
basicaly, religion exists for create a peace,as time goes by,a handful of people, let's say the higher-ups in certain associations,began to abuse his leadership.
I don't care what religion is, all same to me, i mean all people who feel themselves holy and look down on sinners like me.

If you have Jesus-salvation, be humble. And stop being a sinner as much as you can. Boast in Jesus rather than yourself. Muslims fail just like Christians. But they don't have any Savior to boast in.

Cool

The goal of Islam was the power so what happen to the world? What they need? What if they conquer the world by their power? How will the christian do?

The Christian goal was different from Islam because they are ruled by God and also they have to do good for their 2nd life which is the heaven they want.

What happen to the world? How we can survive to some Islam out there who want the power they want?

Christians also believe that the whole world is ruled by God. It's just that God gives freedom, but Islam enslaves its people.

If God allows Christianity to formally fail, He will still take care of His people. After all, everyone dies, Muslim or Christian. But there will be a resurrection and a judgment, where God will judge everybody as to whose side they were on. This judgment is based on believing in Jesus-salvation.

Everybody dies. This whole world and life exist to give people the chance to be saved for eternal life in the new heavens and the new earth... the new universe God is making. True Muslims aren't going to be saved, because they don't have Jesus-salvation.

Cool

Yes, everybody dies someday and until then it is good to do good to the one in need. Automatically peace will prevail all around the globe. There is nothing as a specific religion for peace, everything depends on the act of human beings. What we do now gets us to be on the side of God when our life ends.

BADecker

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Quote from: kuyaJ on October 31, 2019, 01:51:53 PM

Quote from: BADecker on October 11, 2019, 07:45:15 PM

Quote from: ashmodeus on October 11, 2019, 06:11:05 PM

yes, that right , because religion can make some confilct, because religion people can hate each other,because religion,people can feel arrogant.
i still have no idea why people using religion for satisfy worldly passions.
basicaly, religion exists for create a peace,as time goes by,a handful of people, let's say the higher-ups in certain associations,began to abuse his leadership.
I don't care what religion is, all same to me, i mean all people who feel themselves holy and look down on sinners like me.

If you have Jesus-salvation, be humble. And stop being a sinner as much as you can. Boast in Jesus rather than yourself. Muslims fail just like Christians. But they don't have any Savior to boast in.

Cool

The goal of Islam was the power so what happen to the world? What they need? What if they conquer the world by their power? How will the christian do?

The Christian goal was different from Islam because they are ruled by God and also they have to do good for their 2nd life which is the heaven they want.

What happen to the world? How we can survive to some Islam out there who want the power they want?

Christians also believe that the whole world is ruled by God. It's just that God gives freedom, but Islam enslaves its people.

If God allows Christianity to formally fail, He will still take care of His people. After all, everyone dies, Muslim or Christian. But there will be a resurrection and a judgment, where God will judge everybody as to whose side they were on. This judgment is based on believing in Jesus-salvation.

Everybody dies. This whole world and life exist to give people the chance to be saved for eternal life in the new heavens and the new earth... the new universe God is making. True Muslims aren't going to be saved, because they don't have Jesus-salvation.

Cool

kuyaJ

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Quote from: BADecker on October 11, 2019, 07:45:15 PM

Quote from: ashmodeus on October 11, 2019, 06:11:05 PM

yes, that right , because religion can make some confilct, because religion people can hate each other,because religion,people can feel arrogant.
i still have no idea why people using religion for satisfy worldly passions.
basicaly, religion exists for create a peace,as time goes by,a handful of people, let's say the higher-ups in certain associations,began to abuse his leadership.
I don't care what religion is, all same to me, i mean all people who feel themselves holy and look down on sinners like me.

If you have Jesus-salvation, be humble. And stop being a sinner as much as you can. Boast in Jesus rather than yourself. Muslims fail just like Christians. But they don't have any Savior to boast in.

Cool

The goal of Islam was the power so what happen to the world? What they need? What if they conquer the world by their power? How will the christian do?

The Christian goal was different from Islam because they are ruled by God and also they have to do good for their 2nd life which is the heaven they want.

What happen to the world? How we can survive to some Islam out there who want the power they want?

BADecker

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Quote from: styca on October 30, 2019, 02:40:31 AM

Quote from: Judge-Dredd on October 02, 2019, 03:23:20 PM

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it?

We don't need it. Religion was primarily a method of social control. God was a very effective all-seeing policeman in the sky who could keep the population behaving as desired. Religion is a relic of the past. It can be harmful in many ways, not just starting conflict, but also suggesting that scientific discoveries aren't true.

I do think that some of the values espoused by (but not necessarily practiced by) some religions have merit, like tolerance and treating others as you would have them treat you, etc - but you don't need religion for that.

Except that the idea of God being as you described Him, is an alternative method of population control.

The reality of nature shows that God is real, and that obeying Him is more like fitting in with the universe... to flow with the way things work rather than against them.

Cool

styca

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Quote from: Judge-Dredd on October 02, 2019, 03:23:20 PM

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it?

We don't need it. Religion was primarily a method of social control. God was a very effective all-seeing policeman in the sky who could keep the population behaving as desired. Religion is a relic of the past. It can be harmful in many ways, not just starting conflict, but also suggesting that scientific discoveries aren't true.

I do think that some of the values espoused by (but not necessarily practiced by) some religions have merit, like tolerance and treating others as you would have them treat you, etc - but you don't need religion for that.

Renampun

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Quote from: Judge-Dredd on October 02, 2019, 03:23:20 PM

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

one thing that I don't like about Islam is their way of looking at the opposite sex,
Islam is allowed to do polygamy, and have full power over wives, in the mosque, there is a barrier between women and men,
one more thing that makes me not think is that they believe that every man who enters heaven will marry 72 angels, this is a funny thing IMO

Quote from: BADecker on October 02, 2019, 05:05:02 PM

If a person doesn't have religion, he is dead, in a coma, or a vegetable. Why? Check out the definition of "religion:"

you are very precise, religion is a rule, without religion the world is very chaotic,
for example in Christian it is written "do not killing" just imagine if this rule does not exist,
then we will be busy killing each other.

Kwame21

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Religion, the way I know it doesnt put fear in anyone. Personally, I am a christain. ive been taught to believe in God and this faith has really pushed me to sometimes go beyond the impossible. So to me, religion is cool depending on how see and understand it.

BADecker

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If they are zombies, they aren't people. If they are people... people can't stop being religious. People are religious beings.

Cool

KingScorpio

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Quote from: Judge-Dredd on October 02, 2019, 03:23:20 PM

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

religion make society work, they target the individual mind,

atheism bleeds out a society, russia moved from atheist communism to russian orthodoxy because it also realised atheism isnt very sustainable.

regards

btcdie

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Quote from: mr.robot8 on October 16, 2019, 10:39:58 AM

both Islam and Christianity have their faults and their injustices, I hope that in the future humanity will be guided primarily by science

Does religion not guide you with science?
if you are a religious, at this moment you are guided by science. all the goals of religion are the same, namely to guide us to create peace and goodness in this world. it's just that savage humans involve religion to conquer the world.

try to search on google "the purpose and function of religion" I think it's clear there. so in my opinion, humans are still religious and have their respective beliefs.

mr.robot8

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both Islam and Christianity have their faults and their injustices, I hope that in the future humanity will be guided primarily by science

af_newbie

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Quote from: Naida_BR on October 14, 2019, 03:03:53 PM

Quote from: Judge-Dredd on October 02, 2019, 03:23:20 PM

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

Well, you cannot deprive from anyone the right to believe in God, because Islam kills people in the name of God or Catholic church has been blamed for pedophilia etc. Those are just some minor incidents which stigmatize their whole beliefs.
You can live under Peace if you believe in different religions as well. You only have to be educated and respect others.

If you were educated you would know how to determine if something is true.

Religious dogma, Islam is no exception, is utter nonsense.

However, I would fight for your right to believe in it as long as you keep it to yourself.

Naida_BR

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Quote from: Judge-Dredd on October 02, 2019, 03:23:20 PM

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

Well, you cannot deprive from anyone the right to believe in God, because Islam kills people in the name of God or Catholic church has been blamed for pedophilia etc. Those are just some minor incidents which stigmatize their whole beliefs.
You can live under Peace if you believe in different religions as well. You only have to be educated and respect others.

Topic: Religion of Peace? Why Religion At All - page 3. (Read 862 times)