Topic: Religious beliefs on bitcoin - page 26. (Read 22398 times)
Derr Christists, you are setting yourself up to be That Guy. Don't be that guy.
Derr Antichristist Atheists, you are also setting yourself up to be That Guy. Dont be that guy.
Mabye instead of re reciting this debate, a debate any internet user has seen at least twice, we should be applying the debate's contentions to bitcoin.
The role of the state and the role of god, the akashic record, personal freedom. Come on, y'all.
Derr Antichristist Atheists, you are also setting yourself up to be That Guy. Dont be that guy.
Mabye instead of re reciting this debate, a debate any internet user has seen at least twice, we should be applying the debate's contentions to bitcoin.
The role of the state and the role of god, the akashic record, personal freedom. Come on, y'all.
First, love your avatar! 
Please list them all. Be sure not to list any your god has broken, otherwise it isn't absolute.
Your god is the most immoral being in the universe. Of course you want to place him somehow above the law, otherwise that troublesome cognitive dissonance starts buzzing away.
I criticize him based on my rational, evolved, relative morals.
First, I didn't say "bible" specifically, I said "religion" and of course some of them are supported in the bible. You'll simply say it was interpreted wrong. The bible is either literal or open to interpretation; if interpretable then either of our interpretations are equally? If he wants followers then stop with all the "interpretation games" and just lay down some laws, preferably not on papyrus since only someone of "ungodly intellect" would think that might last through the generations.
Denied medical attention:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1877352,00.html
http://thinkchristian.net/denying-medical-treatment-for-children
Commanding death of gays among many other arbitrary groups:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/20.html
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/70-year-old-stoned-to-death-because-the-bible-says-to-stone-gays/news/2011/03/18/18138
Stoning naughty kids (Deuteronomy 21:18):
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+21&version=KJV
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message553954/pg1
Killing those who work on Sabbath:
'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
You already mentioned the Canaanites so you know that evil bastard you call god is a fan of slaughtering entire peoples on a whim, including innocent children.
And slavery? Oh yeah, god wants you to have slaves. This endearing passage indoctrinates christian cultists into accepting slavery because their slaves are supposed to "serve them as they would christ." Sounds like slavery is a pretty sweet deal for cultists, eh? If god didn't think it was good and proper, why would he instruct the slave on how to behave for the cultist?
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
---
There are several helpful passages which instruct christian cultists in the proper way to handle their slaves - even their own daughters! Why give instructions unless a cultist is expected to own slaves? God wants to be sure you're fully prepped for human subjugation. How thoughtful of him!
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
You can't tell me you're not aware Adam and Eve never existed, right? Mitochondrial Eve kinda puts that to rest (if you weren't already aware every Creationist argument has been thoroughly debunked).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
You're aware atheists do this because we try to speak to adherents on their own terms? This is the exact tactic most adherents begin with, tossing out a little out-of-context nugget to sound wise.
Cherry picking the bible and "proper interpretation" is exactly what religion *is* - that's why there are over 42,000 denominations. Each picks its favorite verses to interpret one way and interprets the other passages another way. The entire idea is preposterous, and so it can only be chalked up to delusion.
There are absolute morals.
Please list them all. Be sure not to list any your god has broken, otherwise it isn't absolute.
God does not break the moral law, although he is certainly not bound by it.
Your god is the most immoral being in the universe. Of course you want to place him somehow above the law, otherwise that troublesome cognitive dissonance starts buzzing away.
Only empathy will lead to utilitarianism. If Hitler thought what he was doing to the Jews would improve the life of everyone on the earth, and save them from the evil destructive Jews, on what basis do you criticize him?
I criticize him based on my rational, evolved, relative morals.
Quote
• deny emergency medical aid to a child
• kill gays, children who misbehave, anyone who works on a particular day of the week, entire groups and races of peoples, and many others for equally capricious reasons
• buy and sell humans as chattel, including one's own family members
None of these are biblically supportable, most are simply twisted to make the bible seem like ...• kill gays, children who misbehave, anyone who works on a particular day of the week, entire groups and races of peoples, and many others for equally capricious reasons
• buy and sell humans as chattel, including one's own family members
Quote
a hateful book about imaginary people.
First, I didn't say "bible" specifically, I said "religion" and of course some of them are supported in the bible. You'll simply say it was interpreted wrong. The bible is either literal or open to interpretation; if interpretable then either of our interpretations are equally? If he wants followers then stop with all the "interpretation games" and just lay down some laws, preferably not on papyrus since only someone of "ungodly intellect" would think that might last through the generations.
Denied medical attention:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1877352,00.html
http://thinkchristian.net/denying-medical-treatment-for-children
Commanding death of gays among many other arbitrary groups:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/20.html
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/70-year-old-stoned-to-death-because-the-bible-says-to-stone-gays/news/2011/03/18/18138
Stoning naughty kids (Deuteronomy 21:18):
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+21&version=KJV
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message553954/pg1
Killing those who work on Sabbath:
'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
You already mentioned the Canaanites so you know that evil bastard you call god is a fan of slaughtering entire peoples on a whim, including innocent children.
And slavery? Oh yeah, god wants you to have slaves. This endearing passage indoctrinates christian cultists into accepting slavery because their slaves are supposed to "serve them as they would christ." Sounds like slavery is a pretty sweet deal for cultists, eh? If god didn't think it was good and proper, why would he instruct the slave on how to behave for the cultist?
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
---
There are several helpful passages which instruct christian cultists in the proper way to handle their slaves - even their own daughters! Why give instructions unless a cultist is expected to own slaves? God wants to be sure you're fully prepped for human subjugation. How thoughtful of him!
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Adam sinned he brought death into the world.
You can't tell me you're not aware Adam and Eve never existed, right? Mitochondrial Eve kinda puts that to rest (if you weren't already aware every Creationist argument has been thoroughly debunked).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
It's not my fault athiests go through the bible cherry picking verses to make an argument.
You're aware atheists do this because we try to speak to adherents on their own terms? This is the exact tactic most adherents begin with, tossing out a little out-of-context nugget to sound wise.
Cherry picking the bible and "proper interpretation" is exactly what religion *is* - that's why there are over 42,000 denominations. Each picks its favorite verses to interpret one way and interprets the other passages another way. The entire idea is preposterous, and so it can only be chalked up to delusion.
That is the way it is with us. We have the gift of free will. We can choose God or not. We can choose to hate or to love, to forgive or not, to accept God or not.
I just showed you that you do not have free will. I am sorry your delusion has disabled your rationality but it wasn't unexpected.
In some ways it is one of our greatest gifts but in that comes the fact that man is sinful and we end up hurting ourselves, each other and God too. It pains him.
Classic christian redefinition. "Truth" and "fact" are concepts not within their comprehension. Feel free to flagellate yourself for your supposed transgressions, however I am sin free.
Which led to my statement that God allows things to punish people. God is patient but there does come a point when he does choose to move (such as in the flood). We do not want to anger God. When He gets angry and decides to act on that we don't stand a chance. He chooses to punish when our hearts become so hard and so against Him that He has no other choice.
I suppose it'd be pointless to inform you there is no empirical evidence for a worldwide flood. You do know that every single Creationist argument has been debunked, right? Before you reply with nonsense please go look it up here to find out why you're wrong:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
One day, several years later, this guy was driving on the freeway and a large beam from a construction crew "accidentally" dropped on the front of his van instantly killing him.
I'm sorry you suffered abuse. Yes, his death was an accident. In case you hadn't noticed we all die.
God does not want to bring harm, but I think that the cries of His children does cause Him to move and He will intervene when His anger is aroused, out of His love for us.
You can't be serious... your god wants to kill every single one of us eventually. As for "intervening" Rassah paraphrased earlier:
"Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn’t care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely." - Sam Harris
And of course, an oldie, but always a goodie:
God doesn't prevent terrible things because:
1) He can't
2) He doesn't want to
3) He causes them
4) He doesn't exist.
Which one do you think is the right answer?
God doesn't prevent terrible things because:
1) He can't
2) He doesn't want to
3) He causes them
4) He doesn't exist.
Which one do you think is the right answer?
5) He gives man free will.
6) Some people deserve punishment.
#6 = #3. Also, fuck those starving African children. They never heard of God, so they deserve todie horrible deaths, right?
As for #5, if God knows everything that happened, is happening, and will happen, then everything that will happen is already predetermined, and despite the illusion of "free will," god already knows who will sin and go to hell, and who will not, even for those who aren't born yet. So why the charade? Why not just stop sinners from being born in the first place, if he knows he's just going to torture them for ever?
I believe God causes the things we consider as suffering or bad things. Sometimes something appears bad to us, but is actually better for us. For example a ship sinks, but the survivors make it to land, whereas if they'd continued something worse could have happened.
As for starving African children, no one has sympathy for the people at Walmart drowning in fat because they are so addicted to twinkies- both are suffering, and all of the suffering makes sense in the afterlife- supposing all souls, including children, get credits in the other world for their suffering. But since we can't conceive of the afterlife with our brains and senses, the suffering doesn't make sense to us. A good quote in the bible(though I believe the book has been extensively corrupted) is when some people as Jesus (peace be with him) about a blind guy and ask him if he is blind because he sinned or because his parents sinned. Jesus said he is blind that God's work will be manifest through him.
Just to throw some opinions in-
I've heard that it's pointless to try to understand the conscious sustaining force of the universe with our limited reason- akin to trying to contain the ocean in a coconut shell.
In nature there are renewals- forest fires, or avalanches, which clear ground and allow new growth to spring up. I believe that bitcoin is such a force. It won't destroy the banking establishment, but it will clear some ground so that new growth can spring up. If we look at the history of evolution, there have been at least 5 mass extinctions in the earth's history. After these mass extinctions there have been explosions in biodiversity, or evolutionary leaps. Some people say humanity is the 6th mass extinction.
When I first learned about bitcoin, I realized that the only way to shut it down would be to shut down the whole internet. ANd the only way to shut down the whole internet would be to conquer the whole world under one unified authority. It then occurred to me that this is probably what the powers that be will try to do, rather than lose their grip.
Time will tell. As for God being referred to as a he, it would be absurd for the creator of time to have gender, which is only necessary to reproduce. Reproduction is a process thoroughly rooted in time, and a trancendent and eternal creator would hence have no need to reproduce. I understand describing God with a dualistic concept like gender simply to be a reference to the apparent and hidden aspects of totality- the male corresponding to manifest phenomena or that which can be represented linguistically, and the female corresponding to the hidden or the ineffable. That's why people say He instead of She.
I've heard that it's pointless to try to understand the conscious sustaining force of the universe with our limited reason- akin to trying to contain the ocean in a coconut shell.
In nature there are renewals- forest fires, or avalanches, which clear ground and allow new growth to spring up. I believe that bitcoin is such a force. It won't destroy the banking establishment, but it will clear some ground so that new growth can spring up. If we look at the history of evolution, there have been at least 5 mass extinctions in the earth's history. After these mass extinctions there have been explosions in biodiversity, or evolutionary leaps. Some people say humanity is the 6th mass extinction.
When I first learned about bitcoin, I realized that the only way to shut it down would be to shut down the whole internet. ANd the only way to shut down the whole internet would be to conquer the whole world under one unified authority. It then occurred to me that this is probably what the powers that be will try to do, rather than lose their grip.
Time will tell. As for God being referred to as a he, it would be absurd for the creator of time to have gender, which is only necessary to reproduce. Reproduction is a process thoroughly rooted in time, and a trancendent and eternal creator would hence have no need to reproduce. I understand describing God with a dualistic concept like gender simply to be a reference to the apparent and hidden aspects of totality- the male corresponding to manifest phenomena or that which can be represented linguistically, and the female corresponding to the hidden or the ineffable. That's why people say He instead of She.
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That was exactly my point. You pick and choose how things hafte be interpreted. This constantly changes (basically less and less should be taken literally) and if there is no way it can be "interpreted" OK, it's wronly translated. But stragley of the ~100 (made up number) english translation there is no right one.
I do not pick and choose, if there its not literal then it's, and it's generally pretty obvious when the intent is literal.Quote
Just wow.
But talking about "the truth ever makes everyone happy".
Would I be happy if there where an after live?
Would I be happy if good people get rewarded after death and bad punished?
Of course! But just that this would make me happy dosn't make it the truth.
But talking about "the truth ever makes everyone happy".
Would I be happy if there where an after live?
Would I be happy if good people get rewarded after death and bad punished?
Of course! But just that this would make me happy dosn't make it the truth.
You people have been complaining about the God of the bible for the entire thread. Don't give me this "oh it sure would be nice if ..." just after you get through raging about the bible.
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Like I said I completly took it out of context. But yet even in this artikle it's arguet again how it should be interpreted.
Or it is just what is written there: A ballad of blind rage.
It's you who is cherry picking.
Ok, there's a lot of things about christianity that's argued, happy? But a ballad of blind rage, it is definitely not. It's basically describing the defeat of some of Israel's enemies. For that matter the Canaanites were fairly cruel people, the psalmist was not likely feeling sorry for them in the day of their demise.Or it is just what is written there: A ballad of blind rage.
It's you who is cherry picking.
Forgive me, but it sounded as if you were being sarcastic :p
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This pick and choose is something that really annoys me.
The Bible is the word of god, but only as long as what is written there is socially acceptable. As soon as it isn't anymore, it just is "took out of context", "translated wrong " or isn't meant to be took literally.
Either all of it is the word of God and has to be took literally or none of it. This picking and choosing which parts I like and choose to interpret as right is just hypocritical.
There are flaws in translations, specifically the KJV which is a bible that was translated over 400 years ago. There are parts not meant to be taken literally,The Bible is the word of god, but only as long as what is written there is socially acceptable. As soon as it isn't anymore, it just is "took out of context", "translated wrong " or isn't meant to be took literally.
Either all of it is the word of God and has to be took literally or none of it. This picking and choosing which parts I like and choose to interpret as right is just hypocritical.
That was exactly my point. You pick and choose how things hafte be interpreted. This constantly changes (basically less and less should be taken literally) and if there is no way it can be "interpreted" OK, it's wronly translated. But stragley of the ~100 (made up number) english translation there is no right one.
much of the bible is not socially acceptable. However the truth never makes everyone happy.
Just wow.
But talking about "the truth ever makes everyone happy".
Would I be happy if there where an after live?
Would I be happy if good people get rewarded after death and bad punished?
Of course! But just that this would make me happy dosn't make it the truth.
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Btw. my favorite Psalm, completely took out of context and probably wrong translated:
Quote from: Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock
Quote from: Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock
Interestingly enough, even the huffpost has answered this recently:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/25/psalm-137-7-9-understandi_n_2550586.html
It's not my fault athiests go through the bible cherry picking verses to make an argument.
Like I said I completly took it out of context. But yet even in this artikle it's arguet again how it should be interpreted.
Or it is just what is written there: A ballad of blind rage.
It's you who is cherry picking.
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If one is all powerful then one has the power of omniscience.
Perhaps, although there are important distinctions. That is to say, is it possible one could be omnipotent, and not omniscient? Perhaps, I don't really know.Quote
We know your god by his works, and according to christians he leaves a wake of woe and destruction. He's painted as evil because he is. There are no absolute morals, if for no other reason than that he breaks every single one himself and by default cannot be absolute.
There are absolute morals. God does not break the moral law, although he is certainly not bound by it.Quote
Don't bother going down the absolute moral values road hand in hand with William Lane Craig. He's an intelligent solipsist who continually has his testicles crushed holding that opinion in debates with Sam Harris and Shelly Kagan.
I have no reason to back down from my argument, and I refuse to take "well these other people lose in debates" as an argument.Quote
Morality: Using empathy as a guide for human interaction. AKA, "treat others the way you want to be treated" and "put yourself in my shoes". It has nothing inherently to do with the bible.
Only empathy will lead to utilitarianism. If Hitler thought what he was doing to the Jews would improve the life of everyone on the earth, and save them from the evil destructive Jews, on what basis do you criticize him?Quote
• deny emergency medical aid to a child
• kill gays, children who misbehave, anyone who works on a particular day of the week, entire groups and races of peoples, and many others for equally capricious reasons
• buy and sell humans as chattel, including one's own family members
None of these are biblically supportable, most are simply twisted to make the bible seem like ...• kill gays, children who misbehave, anyone who works on a particular day of the week, entire groups and races of peoples, and many others for equally capricious reasons
• buy and sell humans as chattel, including one's own family members
Quote
a hateful book about imaginary people.
Empathy cannot be the basis for moral law. Even the laws of the US are absolute, sure we have jails, so we can decide who
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If God is perfect then why did she create such imperfect beings that she has to threaten death constantly to get them to do what she wants? Was God bored and needed something to play with? God would know ahead of time how you would react to any situation. There is no choice or free will when you know everything that will happen, and created it to happen that way. So effectively she damned me to hell because she made me imperfect. There is only one way to make any of this make sense. Men fabricated the bible like any other ghastly horror novel and there is no God. Period.
God does not have a gender, however when God is referenced it is normally "he". I understand you are simply doing this to irritate me, but I digress.The world was not initially created an imperfect world, but rather as a perfect world, however when Adam sinned he brought death into the world.
I'm sorry for assuming you were libertarian, you sig and name made me think you were.
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Thank you for clarifying the bible. I see you've accidentally written your own bible thar. Your bible is RIGHT, Of course.
Yeah, thats cool. Very nice bible you have.
A BIBLE still says...dat... ribaldly evil stuff...ttho. so.. um. Still a problem?
... I suppose I should turn to athiests for my interpretations of the bible? I think not.Yeah, thats cool. Very nice bible you have.
A BIBLE still says...dat... ribaldly evil stuff...ttho. so.. um. Still a problem?
I have not mis-represented the bible in any way, you're just upset because you crap-posted a list of arguments you found on the internet, and I answered them.
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This pick and choose is something that really annoys me.
The Bible is the word of god, but only as long as what is written there is socially acceptable. As soon as it isn't anymore, it just is "took out of context", "translated wrong " or isn't meant to be took literally.
Either all of it is the word of God and has to be took literally or none of it. This picking and choosing which parts I like and choose to interpret as right is just hypocritical.
There are flaws in translations, specifically the KJV which is a bible that was translated over 400 years ago. There are parts not meant to be taken literally, much of the bible is not socially acceptable. However the truth never makes everyone happy.The Bible is the word of god, but only as long as what is written there is socially acceptable. As soon as it isn't anymore, it just is "took out of context", "translated wrong " or isn't meant to be took literally.
Either all of it is the word of God and has to be took literally or none of it. This picking and choosing which parts I like and choose to interpret as right is just hypocritical.
Quote
Btw. my favorite Psalm, completely took out of context and probably wrong translated:
Quote from: Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock
Quote from: Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock
Interestingly enough, even the huffpost has answered this recently:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/25/psalm-137-7-9-understandi_n_2550586.html
It's not my fault athiests go through the bible cherry picking verses to make an argument.
5) He gives man free will.
Not if you believe your god is omnipotent. If you believe your god is all-powerful then you do not have free will. If you believe he is not, then he is not a god.
God could force all of us to be perfect. To be His "mindless" robots and all of us would then do exactly what He wanted, but then how would God know if we really loved him or not? If you are in love with someone, wouldn't you at some point want to know if they truly loved you back or were just in the relationship because they had to be? That is the way it is with us. We have the gift of free will. We can choose God or not. We can choose to hate or to love, to forgive or not, to accept God or not. In some ways it is one of our greatest gifts but in that comes the fact that man is sinful and we end up hurting ourselves, each other and God too. It pains him.
Which led to my statement that God allows things to punish people. God is patient but there does come a point when he does choose to move (such as in the flood). We do not want to anger God. When He gets angry and decides to act on that we don't stand a chance. He chooses to punish when our hearts become so hard and so against Him that He has no other choice.
My personal experience: There was a guy that did horrible things to me as a very young child. My parents did not believe me when I finally told them as a young teenager. I felt powerless but I ended up praying that God would help me understand why it happened. I was able, with God's help, to let go of my extreme anger and hate. God showed me that the reason he abused me was because he was actually abused too (the guy's father was put in jail later). One day, several years later, this guy was driving on the freeway and a large beam from a construction crew "accidentally" dropped on the front of his van instantly killing him. Was it really an accident or God finally saying He had enough chances? I don't really know. You would think I would have been happy to see "justice" done. I was actually sad. It is heartbreaking when people choose destructive things. God does not want to bring harm, but I think that the cries of His children does cause Him to move and He will intervene when His anger is aroused, out of His love for us.
As for #5, if God knows everything that happened, is happening, and will happen, then everything that will happen is already predetermined, and despite the illusion of "free will," god already knows who will sin and go to hell, and who will not, even for those who aren't born yet. So why the charade? Why not just stop sinners from being born in the first place, if he knows he's just going to torture them for ever?
Who will fuel the fires of damnation then
?Christians, they want it that way
As for #5, if God knows everything that happened, is happening, and will happen, then everything that will happen is already predetermined, and despite the illusion of "free will," god already knows who will sin and go to hell, and who will not, even for those who aren't born yet. So why the charade? Why not just stop sinners from being born in the first place, if he knows he's just going to torture them for ever?
Who will fuel the fires of damnation then
? 
And of course, an oldie, but always a goodie:
God doesn't prevent terrible things because:
1) He can't
2) He doesn't want to
3) He causes them
4) He doesn't exist.
Which one do you think is the right answer?
God doesn't prevent terrible things because:
1) He can't
2) He doesn't want to
3) He causes them
4) He doesn't exist.
Which one do you think is the right answer?
5) He gives man free will.
6) Some people deserve punishment.
#6 = #3. Also, fuck those starving African children. They never heard of God, so they deserve those horrible deaths, right?
As for #5, if God knows everything that happened, is happening, and will happen, then everything that will happen is already predetermined, and despite the illusion of "free will," god already knows who will sin and go to hell, and who will not, even for those who aren't born yet. So why the charade? Why not just stop sinners from being born in the first place, if he knows he's just going to torture them for ever?
Someone listened to one too many sermons rather than studying with an open mind. You really just described one of the great mysteries of man vs gods. It is angering and confusing to comprehend something so silly.
Let's view this though the lens of physics and science instead. Experimentally we have sent radio waves and small particles through time. What does this mean? It means that those creations existed at both inception and at another time. This opens the possibility that they were here all along, and will be present long after they are perceived.
I understand your logic. I just think that many of us are jaded by the simplistic and often dogmatic views espoused by modern Christians. They refuse to understand the physical world as much as the atheist/agnostic refuses to acknowledge the spiritual world.
Many agnostic and atheist physicists tirelessly search for the 'God Theory' that supposedly will reconcile the realms and explain why the laws that dictate large particle interactions (gravity etc) do not hold true in the quantum realm and visa versa. Although we can observe and measure both quantum and classical physical phenomena; we cannot reconcile the simultaneous existence of them both.
Enigmatic at the least. Demands further study with an open mind by all rational people.
Let's view this though the lens of physics and science instead. Experimentally we have sent radio waves and small particles through time. What does this mean? It means that those creations existed at both inception and at another time. This opens the possibility that they were here all along, and will be present long after they are perceived.
I understand your logic. I just think that many of us are jaded by the simplistic and often dogmatic views espoused by modern Christians. They refuse to understand the physical world as much as the atheist/agnostic refuses to acknowledge the spiritual world.
Many agnostic and atheist physicists tirelessly search for the 'God Theory' that supposedly will reconcile the realms and explain why the laws that dictate large particle interactions (gravity etc) do not hold true in the quantum realm and visa versa. Although we can observe and measure both quantum and classical physical phenomena; we cannot reconcile the simultaneous existence of them both.
Enigmatic at the least. Demands further study with an open mind by all rational people.
Ah, an intelligent post - well done, sir. Respect +1
ahhh religion....biggest money spinner
Unless of course that wasn't supposed to be an argument, in which case I quite like your elephant hypothesis.
It isn't an argument as much as it is just meant to illustrate the absurdity. They are equal arguments since neither has any empirical evidence pointing to its validity.
If you're interested in worshiping Elephus, please understand she is the one true god, and the path to her exists only through obeying my word, her right hand man and appointed prophet. As far as you know, we celebrate her appropriately on St. Elephus Day by wearing wrinkly grey boots and an elephant mask while prancing through the streets showering with pink and brown confetti those gathered to bear witness to her godliness. And there's beer. Oh, and women jumping out of cakes.
Beer and women jumping out of cakes sounds good. I'm not going to wear wrinkly grey boots or an elephant mask though, that's just stupid.
I just wanted to point something out, as a former bible scholar... you're quoting mistranslations and making judgements on the translated word.
Specifically leviticus 20:13. a more accurate translation is:
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt is upon them.
This isn't a command for people to kill them. This is description of the result of their actions. Death, in the eternal sense... eradication of the soul. With the reasoning included. They've sinned against their bloodline by not producing children abd thus their legacy doesn't exist.
Specifically leviticus 20:13. a more accurate translation is:
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt is upon them.
This isn't a command for people to kill them. This is description of the result of their actions. Death, in the eternal sense... eradication of the soul. With the reasoning included. They've sinned against their bloodline by not producing children abd thus their legacy doesn't exist.
You can interpret and attempt to soften that collection of crap anyway you like but I still won't believe it. I can't rationally believe in ancient Christian mythology like the God of Abraham or the God of King James any more than I can believe in ancient Norse mythology like Thor or Greek mythology like Apollo.
I'm not trying to convince you. I'm simply pointing out that if you're going to say what it says... (and make rational judgements based on that) you should probably study it in the original language so you actually know what it says.
This pick and choose is something that really annoys me.
The Bible is the word of god, but only as long as what is written there is socially acceptable. As soon as it isn't anymore, it just is "took out of context", "translated wrong " or isn't meant to be took literally.
Either all of it is the word of God and has to be took literally or none of it. This picking and choosing which parts I like and choose to interpret as right is just hypocritical.
Btw. my favorite Psalm, completely took out of context and probably wrong translated:
Quote from: Psalm 137:9
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock
Quote
Not if you believe your god is omnipotent. If you believe your god is all-powerful then you do not have free will. If you believe he is not, then he is not a god.
What does omnipotence have to do with free will?
An omnipotent being would know the future before it occurred, in fact would be causing the future to happen as he wished. If you were traveling down a road and came to a fork would you go left or right? If you choose left and god knows you will go right, how is this an actual choice if you were really set on going left?
Aside from that, if you believe in the christian god, none of us chose to be placed into his twisted game of heaven versus hell, yet he purportedly eternally punishes anyone who doesn't succumb to his will. That is not choice, that is extortion, and it's against our manmade laws for a reason.
In addition there may be scientific evidence negating the possibility of free will, though I don't personally feel there's yet enough evidence for the hypothesis:
http://io9.com/5975778/scientific-evidence-that-you-probably-dont-have-free-will
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567424X09701588
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-01-01/free-will-science-religion/52317624/1
Someone listened to one too many sermons rather than studying with an open mind. You really just described one of the great mysteries of man vs gods. It is angering and confusing to comprehend something so silly.
Let's view this though the lens of physics and science instead. Experimentally we have sent radio waves and small particles through time. What does this mean? It means that those creations existed at both inception and at another time. This opens the possibility that they were here all along, and will be present long after they are perceived.
I understand your logic. I just think that many of us are jaded by the simplistic and often dogmatic views espoused by modern Christians. They refuse to understand the physical world as much as the atheist/agnostic refuses to acknowledge the spiritual world.
Many agnostic and atheist physicists tirelessly search for the 'God Theory' that supposedly will reconcile the realms and explain why the laws that dictate large particle interactions (gravity etc) do not hold true in the quantum realm and visa versa. Although we can observe and measure both quantum and classical physical phenomena; we cannot reconcile the simultaneous existence of them both.
Enigmatic at the least. Demands further study with an open mind by all rational people.
O_O
I don't even know where to begin. I suppose I could go through the entire list, and show you where you're misquoting, but I'm pretty lazy, so I'll just do a few.
I suppose you're supporting bestiality, incest and homosexuality then?
Most of these are actually curses, not something God is going to do to everyone ...
Anyway, that's a few at least.
I don't even know where to begin. I suppose I could go through the entire list, and show you where you're misquoting, but I'm pretty lazy, so I'll just do a few.
Quote
If two men have sexual relations, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:13).
If a mother and son have sexual relations, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:11).
If a man and daughter-in-law have sex, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:12).
If a man has sex with an animal, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:15).
If a mother and son have sexual relations, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:11).
If a man and daughter-in-law have sex, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:12).
If a man has sex with an animal, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:15).
I suppose you're supporting bestiality, incest and homosexuality then?
Most of these are actually curses, not something God is going to do to everyone ...
Quote
God will kill inhabitants of entire cities if they have a corrupt government (Micah 3:9-12).
Aren't you supposed to be libertarian?Quote
If an ox gores someone, the ox and its owner must be stoned to death (Exodus 21:29).
I believe we have this in US law too, imagine if through some mechanical malfunction your machinery kills someone, you are liable for their life, and under a just law system such a person should be put to death. A pretty good reason to make sure your machinery doesn't kill someone, huh?Anyway, that's a few at least.
Yes, I think murder is a fitting punishment for homosexuality.
No, I'm not a libertarian.
No, I don't believe in an eye for an eye in any situation. Two wrongs never make a right.
If God is perfect then why did she create such imperfect beings that she has to threaten death constantly to get them to do what she wants? Was God bored and needed something to play with? God would know ahead of time how you would react to any situation. There is no choice or free will when you know everything that will happen, and created it to happen that way. So effectively she damned me to hell because she made me imperfect. There is only one way to make any of this make sense. Men fabricated the bible like any other ghastly horror novel and there is no God. Period.
trolling softly... oh so softly.
So gently...
Meanwhile:
Murder might be a fitting punishment for more heterosexuality amirite?
O_O
I don't even know where to begin. I suppose I could go through the entire list, and show you where you're misquoting, but I'm pretty lazy, so I'll just do a few.
I suppose you're supporting bestiality, incest and homosexuality then?
Most of these are actually curses, not something God is going to do to everyone ...
Anyway, that's a few at least.
Thank you for clarifying the bible. I see you've accidentally written your own bible thar. Your bible is RIGHT, Of course.I don't even know where to begin. I suppose I could go through the entire list, and show you where you're misquoting, but I'm pretty lazy, so I'll just do a few.
Quote
If two men have sexual relations, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:13).
If a mother and son have sexual relations, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:11).
If a man and daughter-in-law have sex, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:12).
If a man has sex with an animal, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:15).
If a mother and son have sexual relations, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:11).
If a man and daughter-in-law have sex, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:12).
If a man has sex with an animal, both must be put to death (Leviticus 20:15).
I suppose you're supporting bestiality, incest and homosexuality then?
Most of these are actually curses, not something God is going to do to everyone ...
Quote
God will kill inhabitants of entire cities if they have a corrupt government (Micah 3:9-12).
Aren't you supposed to be libertarian?Quote
If an ox gores someone, the ox and its owner must be stoned to death (Exodus 21:29).
I believe we have this in US law too, imagine if through some mechanical malfunction your machinery kills someone, you are liable for their life, and under a just law system such a person should be put to death. A pretty good reason to make sure your machinery doesn't kill someone, huh?Anyway, that's a few at least.
Yeah, thats cool. Very nice bible you have.
A BIBLE still says...dat... ribaldly evil stuff...ttho. so.. um. Still a problem?
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