Topic: Religious beliefs on bitcoin - page 31. (Read 22398 times)

This page is equivalent to my showing you an unearthed New York subway token as proof Spiderman exists. The deluded will see what they want to see.

I enjoy how the link you sent seems to want to claim tokens from earlier cultures as "biblical artifacts" when all it does is provide further evidence to the claim the bible is a fraud made up of co-opted preceding myths and local legends. Showing us Gilgamesh and Hammurabi tablets do nothing to help the fraudulent bible, lol...

Define the empirical evidence that would satisfy you, and it will be beyond my ability. Jesus said it best, some would not believe even if someone were raised from the dead (which He proceeded to do). Need to be convinced? Ask Him yourself. If you have enough faith to do so, He won't let you down. Just don't say I didn't warn you.

2000 years... still waiting on that empirical evidence for the existence of the god of Abraham. Have you been hiding it somewhere? Perhaps deep in a youtube "documentary video" (with comments disabled)?

You respond to documentary videos with forums full of ad-hominem back-slapping? Good enough for some. Let's try again:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saqqara+egypt+joseph+grain

EDIT: Also, the logical failures of the biblicalnonsense article astound me. How can one argue logically against God based on the massive presumption that he cannot and does not interact? "From what we’ve learned about this god’s true lack of interaction with the people on earth, such unsubstantiated circumstances were highly unlikely to have ever taken place." It contains far more opinions than references, but again, that's good enough for some.

Before you parrot the lie that "there is zero evidence," look for the evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible

A few hundred years ago you would have been saying "We rely on axiomatic "truths" we've already agreed to within our shared reality. We've arrived at these truths via science the Bible.


If you personally don't know how to conduct electric experiments, I wouldn't expect you to be preaching to me about their irrefutability.  Of course you need to understand, otherwise you're going on blind faith. And blind faith is also dumb when it doesn't see itself as faith.


Progress, in its customary usage, requires nothing but passage of time.  Unless, of course, you posit a goal.


Ah, the "some people X" interwebz argument.  I'm sorry, but that numbered list is ... wut?  What are you talking about?  What field?  Logic, physics, mathematics, what?


Who?  


Are you trying your hand at creative writing? (Who?!  This is just low-brow melodrama, a strawman who's prone to theatrics.)


You've already forgotten what point you're arguing.  Irrelevant.


See 1, 2, 3 ,4 ... 100.  See: Irrelevant.


Tell me more about stuff you admit you know nothing about.

For added fun:
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-debunking/red-sea-crossing-t878.html
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/05/coming-this-fall-exodus-conspiracy-dr.html
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/chariot-wheels.htm#.UaK0OYXxgy4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Wyatt

Moses didn't exist. The exodus never happened.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3355050,00.html
http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter12.html
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/judaism/TCF2K1C0BPAGF6BVO
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-isaacs/passover-in-egypt-did-the_b_846337.html

Just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=red+sea+chariot+wheels

*sigh*
You did exactly what I tried to head off, devolve into semantics. Of course there is no fact in science. Science deals with probability. However, at some point we have to build on the knowledge we have. If we want an answer to "what is 1 + 1," we can't stop to go back and debate the definition of the word "one" or "plus" each time. We cannot stop to talk about how man came to understand abstract thought, touch on Aristotle and the many others who helped form the concept of mathematics.

We rely on axiomatic "truths" we've already agreed to within our shared reality. We've arrived at these truths via science. We don't need to personally understand how to conduct electric experiments ourselves to trust that science has a pretty good understanding of how to observe and measure that phenomena. However ANYONE who doesn't buy into what we know of electricity can indeed absorb the knowledge necessary to go conduct experiments himself in attempt to falsify that information.

Progress requires building on our collective knowledge. To do that we have to establish a way to prove an assumption by:
1) asserting a hypothesis and its components
2) testing the components for substantial supporting evidence, unsupported components go back to be refined
3) either agree after successful testing that in our shared reality the hypothesis is now supported, or that overall unsupported components may mean the hypothesis fails
4) for sake of ease many people call these tested and supported hypotheses "facts", but again that's just so that we can get on with progress. There may be some people who can show under the right conditions that 1 + 1 does not equal 2, but in order to function in a society we have to get on with calling supported hypotheses "facts".

The issue at play here is that religious people are willing to agree to facts the world has established -- until those facts cross into their delusion. Then they wiggle and worm, employ Ad Hoc Hypothesis until one of the debaters faints from exhaustion, then finally invoke magic to overcome the facts they don't like.

The bible has very little if any historic value, and nearly zero factual content, despite what any church will tell you. If you rely only on the bible to make a point, that point is considered worthless because we've already proved the bible worthless as source material. We have to build on the knowledge we have. We cannot continually go back to square one with showing the bible is false, especially when adherents will only invoke magic at the end of the discussion.

You may not share mankind's general reality but for most of us, gravity will work tomorrow, no faith required. You're free to test it but my advice is: don't climb too high before you leap.

Every holy text purports to be the one true way. Unfortunately your Jesus never existed. This might have been a clue to you something was wonky with the religion.



Your god attempts extortion to gain believers. He's a wise guy. Probably owns a waste disposal company.

As for free will, if you believe your god is omnipotent then you have no free will. If you don't believe he is omnipotent then he is not a god.



There are literal commandments and then there is the bible which is apparently your god's teachings for how to live. You may not want to say "commandments" but everything taught in the bible is a lesson you're expected to follow. He has taught you to give away your possessions yet you somehow have convinced yourself through "interpretation" it doesn't apply to you. Cherry picking at its finest.



Each one of them is unfortunately roasting eternally for disobeying your master. Very sad indeed.



Jesus didn't say "give away your love of your possessions." You're risking your very soul by being dishonest about this, aren't you?




There is no archaeological evidence to support the bible. Did you not read the last post? One can write all day about something that might have happened in Topeka, Kansas but just because Topeka exists doesn't meant the event happened.

If you have some archaeological evidence you should present it because you'll surely become famous quickly. Many archaeologists have tried and failed over the past 2000 years. Just because a city existed and is mentioned in the bible doesn't mean the bible contains any facts about event details and is not good evidence of anything. You do understand the bible was mostly formed into its current structure in 325AD, well after "the events" are purported to have taken place. it's pretty easy to write "prophecy" or "archaeological writings" AFTER the event has taken place/existed.



Schools ignore religion's "archaeological evidence" because it is horseshit. The job of a school is to teach as much truth as possible, not religious delusion. That is the job of a madrasa.

There is a concept called "original sin" among Christians. Do you believe in that?

Where to start.  No.  You're wrong.  There's plenty of faith involved in the assumption that gravity will work tomorrow.  After you clear the hurdles like "WTF *is* gravity" (no, general relativity notions like "curvature of space-time" are handy visualization aids, but not much more), you have to have faith in all kinds of notions: Persistence, the nature of temporality, the certainty that your thought is subject to extraneous physical phenomena... I could keep this list going, but you're bored already & i'm too.  Remember, even faith in universal non-contradiction ~(A & ~A) is just ... faith.  Hard proof is harder to come by than you think, so...  It's not semantics, you're just much too comfortable with your own assumptions.

Wow.  There is so much in your response.  I can tell you really feel strongly about your beliefs for sure.

I just want to comment on a couple things that I quoted above.

As for subscribing to every religion on the planet?  Well, I was talking with a Hindu at the beach once.  He mentioned how he believed all paths were valid so why should he believe in Christianity.  Of course I believe it to be true, but I told him a couple of things.  First was that most religions are about "earning" your way by doing good works.  Christianity is the opposite.  It is about realizing that in ourselves there is really nothing we can do to be good enough.  We are sinful in nature and need a savior.  Also, if all paths are valid then a person should defninitely choose Christianity.  The Bible says that there is only one way to eternal life and it is through Jesus Christ.  So, to be safe, the wise thing to do would be to choose that path.  The guy I was talking to was logical enough to say that I was beginning to persuade him.  I am not sure what he chose to do.  It is up to him of course.  God does not force us to choose Him.  That is the beauty of the gift of Free Will.

We are not commanded to give away our possessions.  In one story, Jesus told someone who was bragging about what a great person he was and how he had followed the "law" and Jesus told him to sell his possessions and give to the poor.  The statement was meant to tell him we are never really perfect and there is always more we can do.  There were many rich followers of Christ who did great things.  The LOVE of money is the root of evil.  Money, in itself, is not the root of evil.  There is a difference.

Why do you say there is no archeological evidence?  Most of the cities in the Bible are accounted for.  Most of the people, Kings etc, have mention outside of scripture that they lived.  There is extensive evidence.  Unfortunately, our schools like to ignore so much of this for some reason.  It is the foundation of our world's history though.  One of my favorite books is The Wall Chart of World History by Edward Hull.  It is very interesting to see how much of our history is accounted for in the Bible.  http://www.amazon.com/The-Wallchart-World-History-Revised/dp/076070970X  

As for your logic that all Christians will go to hell.  The unpardonable sin you speak of is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.  The reason I believe this Sin is so dangerous, it is the Holy Spirit that draws us to God.  If we make fun of Him, or tell Him we do not want anything to do with Him, the Holy Spirit will respect that and leave us alone.  But with that comes the problem that there will be no more opportunities to have a change of heart.  That is why it is so dangerous.  Our own pride will take over and we will no longer have the ability to even hear God speak at all.  

The Bible says we are all sinners.  So I am not sure what your logic is that we are all going to Hell is?  If you admit you have sinned, accept God's free gift of salvation, he is faithful to forgive us and give us eternal life.  That is the message in a nutshell.

I really do not mind hearing your opinions though.  Please understand that I respect that you have strong reasons for them.  

One chooses to live by fact and reason, or one chooses superstition. There is no faith involved in the assumption gravity will continue to work tomorrow. It is a fact within our shared reality, as much as we can have constants without devolving into a semantic argument over whether the existence of gravity is a fact.



Known as Pascal's Wager, an inelegant and possibly immoral argument for conversion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

It's inelegant because it's one of the first arguments an adherent makes in the sheepish defense of something he doesn't strongly believe in himself. It is immoral only because religion generally considers gambling so, and Pascal's Wager is essentially that an adherent has whittled his reason for faith down to a wager.

Do you realize that based on your own argument of risk, you personally should subscribe to every religion on the planet? What if any one of them is "right" and Christianity is "wrong"? Quick, you better get started joining them all.

You realize that picking just one from the world's thousands of religions gives you only a tiny percentage chance of being "right", and that for most people the choice of religion wasn't even really a choice but simply the one obvious option provided to him by virtue of the family he was born into and ever since conditioned to believe in it?

Some others may actually have chosen another religion at an age when he could make a conscious choice but that usually boils down to a preference over rules of one faith or another, or simply not finding like-minded people at one church or another. Neither of these seem a wise choice when dealing with gods since when will a god care if you prefer his rules or the sheep in his flock.




That is one of the saddest and yet most common retorts an atheist hears from the religious. You're basically admitting that without god you personally find life empty. The people, the family, the fun and adventure, the challenges even, that bright summer day when you were 12 and could run forever and never get tired, the birth of one's child, the majesty of the night sky or a pink/orange sunrise, a wonderful trip to a foreign country, the wonder of nature, whatever rocks your boat; none of it means anything unless some reward is waiting for you?

If there is a point to life it can only be to have experienced life. Beyond that any point is only what we arbitrarily assign based on our own superstitions, goals, and prejudices.



The history of our world has been filled with ignorant (occasionally well-intentioned) guesses about how the world works and the only way we've begun to sort things out is through evidence derived from the scientific method. Without this evidence a guess remains so, and it holds as much weight as any other guess. The chance that the god of Abraham exists is equal to the chance that Leprechauns have buried pots of gold under my lawn. We have empirical evidence for neither.

Atheists do understand gods and faith. They are antiquated notions of an ignorance that the world is slowly rising above.



There is ZERO archaeological evidence that the bible holds any more truth than a good Stephen King novel. As for historical, perhaps, insomuch as someone added likely embellished historical events of note into it. Even if the bible is filled with writings about actual events or existing cities it doesn't mean any of the details are true, or further, that it has anything at all to do with the existence of a god.

When adherents speak about "archaeological evidence" they'll say things like, "well, we have archaeological evidence Egypt existed and still exists and the bible talks about an Exodus from Egypt." Something along those lines, or perhaps David and Solomon. It's grasping at straws. The Spiderman comic book is set in New York; New York exists, therefore Spiderman is real?

You are correct about one thing: faith. In the face of zero empirical evidence blind faith is all that's left, which is why the church and bible went out of its way to teach that faith is a virtue.



Bad news; the Ophthalmologist called: you need glasses.



This is only an attempt to shoehorn your personal goals into religion. Textbook hypocrisy. Your god has COMMANDED you through the bible to give all your possessions away, and has let you know in no uncertain terms that people with material wealth do not get into Heaven, yet you persist with bitcoin because you're driven by greed. Nothing wrong with that except, again, you should re-evaluate your beliefs because they do not align with your actions. You are ignoring your god, defying him, and that is the one unpardonable sin in Christianity.

Proof Every Christian Goes to Hell
1) The only irredeemable sin against your Lord thy God is denying him, the Holy Spirit
2) To deny is to refuse to admit truth of or to refuse to give that which is requested
3) Any sin is to deny god of his commandments
4) Therefore, even one sin results in a soul that cannot be forgiven. Sin once, and you're going to hell whether you repent or not. Since Christians are "born into sin" they're automagically damned to hell and cannot be forgiven.

I don't believe that something is in control of this mess. My father used to go to church every Sunday morning and was at the bar carousing every Saturday night. His favorite saying was, "as long as I don't die between Saturday night and Sunday morning when I get forgiven then I'm goin to heaven." I guess a one in seven chance of going to heaven is good odds but that type of hypocrisy keeps me from believing in any of it.

I do believe that Jesus walked on water though - I just kind of figured it was winter.

KeyserSoze,  you seem to have much "faith" that you are right and that all religion is fraud.  Can you really be 100% sure you are right?  What if you are wrong?  That seems very risky to me to put so much faith in not believing.  It seems rather empty to me as well.  What is the point to life then?  I suppose that survival of the fittest is the main point?  Getting as much as you can here on earth before you die?

I honestly am curious what your thoughts are on that.  It is always interesting to see what other people's philosophies are.  Usually they have good reasons for what they believe.  Also, it seems that many atheists are incredibly intelligent people. (most have a much higher IQ then I do it seems I have been considered "gifted")  I think the problem is that they are "too smart" sometimes though.  They cannot understand God and faith with their logical minds.  Although I feel that I have studied and found there is much truth that backs up the Bible (historical and archeological evidence) there is a point in which it takes faith.  That is the hard part for so many people.  But the Bible predicts that without the Holy Spirit drawing them, people cannot see the truth.  So who is really blind?  There are so many verses that talk about how, before accepting Christ through faith, we were once blind but now we see.  I can say there is definitely truth in that in my own life for sure!

And yes, in a way bitcoin or the chasing of money and possessions can be a problem.  Money can be the source of many evils.  However, money or bitcoin can be used for much good in the world too, if one is willing to share it.  So, in itself, having wealth makes it difficult to serve God because the person can be too attached to money and not care about the more important things.  But with God, all things are possible:  Even a rich man entering the kingdom of heaven.  

Glad you like my posts, but...  not sure what your point is

Yep, we've been there about half a century ago.  Thanks to the tremendous technological advances over the past 44 years, NASA is currently pulling 40-yr-old rocket motors out of mothballs in hopes of duplicating that magnificent accomplishment ... sometime.  Maybe.  Unfortunately Wernher von Braun (who was in no way a Nazi y'all, well maybe the tiniest little bit, does being SS-Sturmbannführer even count?) won't take us there this time around, he's dead. RIP.

For those not familiar with the true father of American rocketry, this world-renowned rocketeer is best known for his visionary V2 (Vergeltungswaffe 2 -- Vengeance Weapon 2).  This engineering tour de force provided plenty much-needed lulz to the bored civilians fortunate enough to experience this exploding marvel first hand. 

After the war, grateful America scooped up bits & pieces of V-2s {which were built in underground factories by slave labour), along with grinning Von Braun & his team of merry pranksters.  V-2 became our beloved Saturn, and its creator & co -- the brains & guts of NASA.  And yes, the engine NASA's pulling out of the mothballs?  It's THAT engine.

Mankind's entire pantheon, including Jesus son of god and the Abrahamic god itself, never existed. All religion is a fraud. Calling beliefs "unaffiliated spirituality" or other hogwash, while still holding out for some sort of pseudo-christian being or afterlife, does not help one dodge this bullet. If you suffer from a brand of the delusion that holds any of it as "reality," it is no less crazy than any other.

Not a single one of us is saved in Christian sense. There is no Heaven, and if there were no one could live up to what the bible and its purported supernatural author commands in order to gain entry. The religion is tailored to make sins of the many things we all do so that one is perpetually in need of "forgiveness" and therefore bound to a need of the church (at 10% of one's life earnings).



Jesus Christ likely never even existed. The bible is a collection of stolen, modified, pre-fabricated myths and forgeries about a non-existent deity. You don't have to be afraid. You do not need religion.



I'm going to need empirical evidence for this claim. It sounds fishy to me.



What price did anyone ask him to pay? If you believe in the christian god and hell then there is no question this masochist sends people to hell if they don't play his game properly.

Just like Jigsaw from the movie Saw, god supposedly puts a game in motion, forcing people to choose his way or torture. While the poor cattle in the movie indeed get to "exercise free will" they've still been bound into a game against their choice, then forced to play by its rules.

And you call this god a loving god... lol.. He's a horror movie monster.



You mean Jesus accepted Jesus sacrifice? Or is it that the Holy Ghost accepted god's sacrifice, or maybe some other. This whole "I'm going to pretend my god is a three-for-one deal so no one can say Christianity is polytheistic" is pretty irrational. But that's religion for you.

And beyond this, how anyone sees perpetrating human sacrifice as virtuous is incomprehensibly twisted. You're dancing in glee over human sacrifice. That you can't see your own ignorant sickness, and further find it "morally positive," is a marvel.

If you buy the bullshit of Christianity, Jesus was not a very good sacrifice. For crying out loud, god sent himself as Jesus. What kind of sacrifice is that? He knew he'd live forever in heaven and "be reunited with himself". His death on earth means nothing. He knew he was eternal. Since he was a god he could easily just pop out another son if he needed to. It was no sacrifice at all. If your God exists he is laughing at your ignorance, probably kicked back watching ESPN and having a beer, still giggling away at his sheep.



Free? Where is your freedom? He's given you a book of rules and if you don't follow it he sends you to his eternal concentration camp beside beautiful Lake Fire.

The Christian god has the same traits as an abusive partner:
 • you have to fear him to receive his love
 • you are unworthy of his love
 • you are nothing without him
 • if you do not love him he will hurt you
 • he doesn't WANT to punish you – it's really your fault
 • he threatens you if he thinks you might break things off
 • at all times he needs to know where you are, what you're doing and thinking so he can control your thoughts and behavior
 • doesn't want you to get an education because you'll realize you don't need him anymore and break up
 • worst of all, you have to bring him beer and a sammich when he yells for it (OK maybe this one is a stretch)



Why so many names? Gee, it's almost like he's a criminal in need of pseudonyms.

While we're on the topic, why does Matthew 1:23 say "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" and yet he is not named Immanuel? Can't god's own book of rules predict his only son's name correctly? What a blunder! Kinda takes the wind right out of the whole "prophecy" game folks like to play with ye olde goat herder manual.



That "we" is dwindling, thankfully.