Topic: REMOVE NUBBINS FROM THE DEFAULT TRUST LIST FOR REPEATED TRUST ABUSE - page 10. (Read 15401 times)

TECSHARE, have you ever met WoodCollector in real life?

Hey now, I've been at the wrong end of a pointy stick enough times to tell if it's hand carved or not! /joke

Since you gave your opinion it seems fair that I give mine too.

1) The pictures that were shown on the forums show poor cuts
2) The patterns on his works are very detailed and (near) perfect
3) They admitted to having used an image they had no rights to
4) The video they posted does not demonstrate the same detail that is in their other works
5) There are some apparent shills to back them up

I'm pretty sure that if the case went to court they would not be convicted based on only this. They would probably get a warning. Also they did deliver their works to the satisfaction of their customers.

But in my opinion they're misleading their patrons with their statements. Because of 1) if think they're overstating the quality of their work. Because of the mismatch between 1) and 2) (one shows little attention for detail and the other an high attention for detail) I think there's something fishy. Number 3) is a minor one, but funnily enough the point that would most likely lead to punishment because that's the way the justice system rolls. The final number 4) is disappointing, since they came out to proof something but ended up actually proving nothing. Finally I did not see conclusive proof of 5) and though it seems pretty obvious I'm not really considering it - I feel the other points carry enough weight for me.

All that tells me the works they're selling here are not top notch. Nothing that would make me get my pitchfork out and fire up the good ole torch though. Hey, they may still be greatly skilled and just doing bitcointalk on the side with low effort jobs.

Wait, this forum is filled with economists? 

Yes I am so jealous of his skill level he has in taking clip art off the internet and "hand carving" it into a piece of wood.

Even though most of the tools he uses are not really hand carving tools...more like hand crafted/milled.

  Yup I am so jealous.

Oh and BTW WC has not shown/proven how he got the stencil imprint into the wood before his video even started. (looks lasered to me).

Of course not, but that doesn't matter because others have already stepped in and said very clearly you are abusing the trust system. Your ignorance is not a defense.




I do believe WoodCollector is an honest and skilled craftsman, and I make this conclusion as a craftsman myself. I do not think WoodCollector used lazers or a CNC mill or any other automated system to produce his work. I find it asinine that people are willing to ignore a much simpler explanation for it but rather defaulting to endless theories and constantly shifting speculation and regarding it as proof. Why again is the burden of proof not upon Nubbins? Making accusations is not hard... anyone can do it without any fraudulent activity needing being involved at all by the accused party.

IMO most of these people here are just so jealous of the level of skill he has, and the amazing income he makes with his skills, they can't stand it, and can't possibly believe that this could be true. 90% of the people here have never even whittled a stick let alone done any serious craftwork. This forum is filled with techies and economists, not craftsman or artists. None of you have ANY expertise on this subject and this ignorance shows.

I'm not a court/judge. But I do judge (I'm not a monk either). I have watched the whole Woodcollector episode unfold. I have seen the pictures and read what people pointed out. I have seen the video. I have drawn my own conclusion.

You're fighting based on your principals (I assume). I know you have a problem with the trust system (that's not hard, the system is imperfect and it shows). But do you really believe that Woodcollector is an honest and skilled craftsman? I'm asking you straight, do you think that Woodcollector did not use a laser to etch their pieces?

Obligatory reading.

I see no proof... 

If there was a big enough of a dispute about the alts then he may intervene to give his opinion on them being alts. BadBear might be wiling to share the evidence with other Admins who he trusts who can weigh in

The proof is the fact that you are willing to abuse the trust system to silence people who are proving your accusations incorrect. This serves you by you getting to preserve your reputation at the expense of others by not having to admit you were wrong after starting a mob riot against him and other users. This is clearly self serving.



BadBear is unwilling to provide this "proof" and I guarantee you Theymos doesn't care. That leaves the accusations standing only as that, accusations with no evidence.

I agree that the majority (maybe even all) of the evidence against WC is speculation, with the exception of him using alts to further his cause. I do trust BadBear enough to take his word for it that he personally saw proof that the alts of WC are in fact alts of WC. If you didn't trust BadBear then maybe you could ask theymos to look into it and see if he comes to the same conclusion.

This is not at all speculation. Who would have even started to try to play "scambuster" mall cop sifting around looking for any reason to speculate on endless topics regarding WoodCollector if it weren't for Nubbins's original accusation? Again, it is a simple task to accuse anyone of using alts to discredit them, and conveniently there is no way to prove this either way. THAT is what speculation is. Just a bunch of wannabe detectives overly confident in their "scambusting" skills.


WHAT IS THE PROOF? I SEE NO PROOF ONLY TONS OF SPECULATION!

Well I guess it boils down to if you trust BadBear enough to believe that he has personally verified they are one and the same. I agree, however I think it is much more difficult to prove trust farming then it is for an admin (who has access to things like IP addresses, payment TXIDs that pay for evil points, time users logged in, what threads are being looked at (? - I think this is a feature of SMF), ect)

I think this is speculation. I also think he has gotten much more lazy with his alts and they are acting much more like alts/socks IMO (almost to the point where he is now trolling).

Maybe if there was some actual proof of this... but there is not. All we get is basically we cant tell you because of "national security". I don't find this at all convincing, furthermore there are a lot of people on this forum that are engaged in trust farming using alts and they almost never get negative feedback. Clearly this all revolves around the initial accusation that he was using a laser engraver, and no actual solid evidence of this has been presented, just speculation after speculation endlessly. Convenient how this is set up so the burden of proof is set upon WoodCollector and not Nubbins to provide sufficient evidence of his accusation.

Right. But if you were to assume they are WC's alts (I know you disagree but lets say that you were shown proof), wouldn't you say that giving yourself fake reviews is something that you would consider scammy?

Now you are twisting my words. For the sake of argument doesn't mean I agree. I disagree. I think WoodCollector has absolutely no alts. "for the sake of argument" means lets put that premise aside for a moment and examine his evidence for calling him a scammer on its own right independent of the alt accusations. Literally EVERY TIME there is conflict on this forum some asshat comes out and claims some one is an alt of some one else, this is probably the single most abused and unprovable accusation on the forum.

can't we all just get along.  seriously these trust wars are getting out of hand.

many have suggested different proposal to fix or remove trust... so why not another one,

i propose trust be modified as follows..
before you deal with someone you open your trust "comment-able" for that individual. 
once a transaction occurs the users can leave each other trust.

this way no randoms can just leave trust for people they have not directly dealt with.

the fake reviews rely on the fact that they are alts of wood collector. In your previous post you said that for the sake of arguement you would assume they are his alts.

Regardless of how good WC's work is, if he is using his own alt accounts to tell others they are satisfied customers when they are really not is scammy. It is very similar to buying trust.

"fake reviews" is once again solely relying on the fact that he is either an alt or a scammer, neither of which have any proof being presented about it from anyone, just tons of accusations and speculation in mob format.

If WC has an alt account that he "sells" his coin(s) to then that alt account posts and says "Nice coin, excellent, would do business again."

That is scummy/scammy behavior.

Hence why he would be a scammer in that regard.

WC is shady already given his multiple misrepresentations on this forum about his work etc.