Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer - page 118. (Read 387493 times)

What period of time are you considering for fair launch? I am only considering launch day.

 

Yes.  Monero had one of the most fair launches of any coin.  A fair launch was one of the coin's design goals.  The launch was announced and discussed plenty of time ahead of the release.

What you are trying to ask is if 'equitable launch can be used to describe Monero.'

But no coin will or can ever have an equitable launch, unless they are airdropped en mass to all humans at once via our Google implants.

When you ask about fairness while fully intending to move the goalposts towards equality, no matter how reasonable our answers, it is dishonest.

I don't know either, smooth. I didn't take BBR seriously because of the name. Sounds silly, but I started noticing progress technically and sort of didn't care about the private miner. I think the advantage he had was long gone and glad to see GPU miner opencl developments. It is fun to see projects come along like that, just like Noodle and Wolf's work with XMR. I made a mistake of not taking LTC seriously back in the day because of private GPU miners. Not going to make the same mistake again and I know I am not the only one who conducted BBR valuation this way.

That was a lame and repetitious reply. qfp.

It seems that I must quantify the damage done by the unintentional, and promptly corrected, hash function:

0.5 * 0.3 * 25k * 20 = 75,000 XMR == 75 BTC.

=> I have to say that I have seen larger unfairness in my life.  

Thanks, Pale Phoenix and itod!  I appreciate the help.

You're right, Pale Phoenix.  That's what I am searching for...and I agree that it probably doesn't exist.  I've been searching high and low for a couple of days, aka an eternity in the age of Google.  

It might sound crazy, but what I'm trying to do, philosophically anyway, is create an alt index.  I want to create mechanical rules for a passively-managed basket of alts that would serve as a proxy for the 1000 or so coins out there that are NOT bitcoin (and I'd probably exclude litecoin, as well).  I've experimented with a price-weighted model (as opposed to a market cap weighted model--think Dow instead of S&P).  The rules are based on market cap and volume, but 24 hour volume is such that this damn thing has to be re-balanced practically hourly.  I'd rather be able to re-balance monthly or at most bi-weekly.

There may be no practical application, in fact, but I'm curious to back-test and figure out:
1)  Can a constructed index gauge the health of the entire alt market?
2)  Could this basket of alts trade as an open-end fund somewhere (Nxt exchange, perhaps, though I'm not sure if open-end would work)
3)  Most importantly, could this kind of index fund allow investors the opportunity that comes with alt coins and simultaneously remove the burden (and, frankly, losers' game) of trying to pick winners.  If one could hold a basket of 23 alts, maybe so.

But volume is critical to this, and it can't be 24 hour volume.

As with my previous two posts I think you can again look at XCN and say that the percentage of coins mined before the public and private miners get into rough alignment won't be that high. Even if we limit it to the 5 year supply, or even the 2 year supply.

This is speculation though since there are no good public miners yet AFAIK.

All of these coins have reasonable emissions curves and difficulty adjustments where not that many coins are mined in the first few days/weeks/months. So startup issues being a bit of a mess (and they always are) is not really that bad. The worst cases have coins where many times the usual amount is mined at the very beginning, or the emissions curve is so insanely fast that the very beginning is all that matters.

Somewhere my question about fair launch morphed into something else. I did not say the current dev team used it to their advantage.

My question is this - Can fair launch be used to describe Monero?


Agreed. Saner heads say both coins have had minor issues in the beginning and corrected them as soon as as possible.

I think they likely to be quite different. My last post estimated that roughly 2% of XMR coins were mined before the public miner was un-de-optimzied. What is corresponding percentage of BBR coins? Since the emission curve is reasonable I still don't think the number is that large (compared to absurdly instamined coins -- and shills for these coins on this thread you know who you are) but it still may be higher than XMR. Or perhaps not. I haven't really been following it so I don't know.

That is a fair basis.

What percentage of the 4-year coin supply was mined before the crippled hash function was fixed? This is very rough but I think the number is about 2%

So yes, the coin is (arguably) 2% unfair. By the standards of the altcoin space that is pure as the driven snow.

I was referring to Cryptonite and should've said so, sorry.

Completely irrelevant. eizh, tacotime and smooth will not post that kind of lie here because they aren't liars like this propagandist. End of story.

I just think that the crippled miner story that BBR is using against XMR to be bogus too. Yes maybe some folks from Bytecoin original team had optimized slow_hash (thankful_for_today surely must have) since it seemed like an inside joke. But it wasn't intentional on tacotime's part, he had not even taken over BMR by then. Come on, it was slowly tweaked as time went on. Everyone among the early miners were more or less on the same ground using the slow hash.

Same rules apply to people bashing BBR. Tainting it because of christian developing a private miner? Completely unfair argument. I am glad he was dumping. Makes getting the coins so much easier. If there are any technical disadvantage, I hope we see that in the whitepaper review of BBR.

These three are excellent sites, wealth of information. However, I think vuduchyld was asking for a simple plot of volume data per coin, like we have for low/high/open/close for a selected period. I don't think that such graphs exist, at least not in public.

Thing is, a unfair environment was Not created purposefully, since the issue was fixed within a very short time period. I agree with icebreaker, this is no perfect world, as perfection is impossible.

Not that its really anyone's business, but ...

I did not mine from launch, and got zero of whatever blocks might have been mined at very low difficulties on the first day.

I was skeptical of how it was being handled and thought BCN (which I had been mining by then for some time) would probably continue to dominate. I was not involved with the launch in any way other than giving some feedback on the thread (which was ignored).

I started mining a few days later when the interest level started picking up and I thought I could stimulate some liquidity with some auction and trading threads.

EDIT: OTC trading thread was started 4/22. Coin launched 4/18.

Which one were you?

That doesn't mean that you should purposefully create even more unfair environment. It's about giving the coin a chance to succeed by using a PoW that many people can mine and hold, not just a small insider miner group who has 90% of the net hash because small time miners stop mining. This will just invite a fork that uses an established algo to take over. And, who knows what this 51%+ of total hash in the hands of an insider group can do.

And, regarding the 10 or 20 year mining period and how much the first 6 months or a year matters - well, I doubt anybody really expects any of these coins to exist in 10 or 20 years, the insider mining group is looking to liquidate asap most likely and move on to the next exotic PoW launch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCVHpnixj88

Relax Guys, Monero is solid - all is well. 

Im going to dump all the boolberry I got(150,000)

Then, Im going to dump all the quarckoins I got (2,037,000)

Here are a few more to add to your tool chest.

The front page of BitcoinWisdom (https://bitcoinwisdom.com/) has aggregated daily, 7 day, and 30 day volume information for the 35 most widely traded coins on the major exchanges. It's far from ideal, but it does have an active developer.

Another interesting site, which I've just recently run across, is Coin Gecko (https://coingecko.com). It tracks various social media & Github statistics and also assigns each coin a (less useful, IMO) liquidity score and an overall score based on all of the metrics tracked.

Finally, Bit Info Charts (http://bitinfocharts.com) offers a wealth of information about major coins, and is the only one I've found that shows coin emission stats (rewards per block, rewards last 24hr).

Cheers!

I will provide proof. I want eizh, tacotime and smooth to lie first, which is basically what you are forcing them to do.

Get off your high and mighty horse. I wouldn't be "conversing" with dumb propagandists to begin with if you hadn't invented the lie that "core" team members weren't mining from the beginning. There were  more than 25 of us in the IRC chat from Day 1.  

You are the cancer of Monero. Don't drag others down to your level. You sound better in altcoin threads making a joke out of yourself getting into arguments with others when there is none needed.

Edit: smooth wasn't in IRC on Day 1. eizh and tacotime were there. smooth was mining but offline in IRC and setting up OTC thread.