Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 118. (Read 73622 times)

You putting question marks on your sentences doesn't make then something to be answered. "Firehose" of loaded questions used to be prominent in Soviet propaganda and Putin has clearly evolved this style for the new intertubes era.


But let me guess, these are the bad lizards, can't believe this article, Ukrainians did it.

Nice to have your confirmation that you can't disprove that Putin faked this "Ukrainian boat" story to accuse Ukraine and destroy Ukraine's coalition. 

That's cheap coming from a person who can't prove that Ukraine is definitely behind it. 
As I've said before, Putin really likes to lie to the public and even to his loyal serfs. 
The problem with Putins propaganda is one thing: it's created that way that it's really difficult to be proven wrong because it's just trying to achieve one thing: His propaganda doesn't need to stick, it's enough if it's causing enough fear, uncertainty, doubt and discord between Ukraine's allies. And Putin could still put his useless pipeline in a martyr role: blow it up and accuse "evil Ukraine has destroyed his great pipeline".
Putin knows very well, that his loyal apologists will push even the dumbest stories, where every time someone else except Russia is at fault. Russia invades Ukraine? Everyone is at fault but not Russia. Russia bombed Ukraine? It didn't happen or Ukraine bombed itself. According to Putler's propaganda, it's never Russia.
He's committing war crimes and at the same time he's playing the victim card. And Kremlin trolls like you are enabling that.
Shame, shame. 


Well, that's an outright lie, I have never claimed that the earth would be flat. 
No need to bring up any stupid strawmen here...
What else could we expect from dumb pricks like you... 

I've stopped counting, but probably we are at post number 10 or 11 right now...
Must be extremely important to you to defend war criminal Putler.

Putin is really proud to have loyal serfs like you because without them, his propaganda wouldn't stick as easily as loyal serfs like you are spreading them constantly. 

Mentions global lizards, but doesn't answer the question, can't say im surprised. Mind citing recent "lots of different opinions" (outside of 1miau hallucinations) that lead to Russia as the saboteur, i'd love to read them.

(I'm fully expecting UA sources or "go search the internet" for proof to my claims yourself   )

Edit: As far as credibility, we're all (i hope) are aware of inherent biases. We fully expect bias in UA coverage of RU (and vise versa), RU/US spokesman coverage of their respective countries (it's literally their job), lawyers arguing for their side (which they get paid for), CNN bias towards republicans, FOX's bias towards democrats etc etc etc Every critical thinking person should take such claims with a healthy portion of inherent criticism. Parent claiming innocence of their child is not a surprise but is expected, parent expressing doubt about their child's innocence should be paid attention to. So it's not that the source is biased (everyone is to a degree), it's how they're biased vs. how they cover the event is what's important. That's what makes western media's coverage and publishing stories linking this sabotage to UA (multiply that by their bias towards UA) is why it's so unprecedented. That carries a lot more weight than RU sources claiming the same.

None of which we're supposed to trust because global lizard conspiracy against Russia, or is that different now?

But I get it, the free speech thing and freedom in general is confusing. Lots of different opinions and not just one party telling you what to think.

I have not provided any proof that aliens don't exist either, so why it shouldn't be possible that aliens did it? Or why it shouldn't be possible that Putin rode a narwhal? etc, etc, etc ...

I'm sure your think of yourself as some sort of expert and that we should all care about what is plausible to you, but here no one really cares for your conspiracy theories and about your extensive research on how the world is flat. (Just, as in all fairness, no one should really cares why i think it's a sphere). We either put up a reliable sources or stop wasting everyone's time by seeding doubt with your silly nonsense opinions.  
You claim a nonexistent "false flag" conspiracy theory with 0 proof, i provide SPIEGEL article that straight up says expert consider "false flag" is extremely unlikely, and then you ask me to proof that something never existed in the first place   you don't even attempt to answer any of my questions on why all of the western media is publishing this, just keep saying that aliens did it, it's like debating with a kid

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How stupid would you sound if i never pretended that it happened in Sweden or Denmark? It happened within the economic zones of Denmark and Sweden. That's why they're doing the investigation and not allowing Russia access to investigate it themselves, and how they delayed approving the project in the first place. And then you'd sound even dumber when you'll find out that i never said it was terrorism either. Do you always first make up stuff and then start arguing with it yourself?

But looks like professor at Columbia did call it terrorism in front of UN, perhaps you should argue with him on the wording?

Why is he saying this? Why is Netherlands saying they warned USA 3 months before the attack? Why CIA director is on record saying that there are no links to Russia? And every news outlet posting stories about links to Ukraine? *crickets*crickets*crickets...

Nice collection of loaded questions and other insinuations. Good indication of how you tend to twist anything and generally have no interest in discussing stuff in good faith.

First of all, acceptance? LOL. It's a hypothetical. I don't know who did it, nor do you no matter how hard you pretend.

Then you're trying to pretend as if it happened in Sweden or Denmark. It didn't. Nor do the pipelines belong to Sweden or Denmark. It's Gazprom property in international waters. Not much different than sinking a Russian ship in Black Sea.

But yeah, some governments and news sources and perhaps even some users of this forum would use big words like "sabotage" (not "terrorism" though; try a dictionary if you're confused) if the implication is that the "bad guys" did it, and likely would use different words if it was the "good guys", I'll give you that. This doesn't make your speculations into facts, it just makes you a doofus who can't (or doesn't want to) tell the difference.

You clearly have not understand anything from what I've explained to you. I have quoted the maritime expert because he's a maritime expert and not an explosives expert. The operation is far more than xx kg of explosives. You don't do this sort of operation on a day trip. Not on this ship, not 100s of km from the German cost, where the Andromeda was rented, not for 3x blowing up the pipelines. 
But since you claim a possible Russian false flag has been refutet, you have not provided any proof, why it shouldn't be possible that Russia has left these traces on the "Ukrainian boat" intentionally.
The version of Russia leaving these traces of "light" explosives intentionally would be very plausible to make their story more "legitimate".

I'm always surprised to see people like you  completely overlooking the fact that only 3 pipelines out of 4 were detonated. Guess what? Maybe people would see the clear picture that only Putin has to gain something to blow up 3 of 4 Pipelines of that useless gas pipeline.

In the meantime, it seems that the Ukrainian counter-offensive in the Kupyansk direction has become negative. Russia has already liberated more than 270 square kilometers and approached the city at a distance of 8 km. Ukraine announced an evacuation and Syrsky requested an urgent transfer of reserves in order to stabilize the situation, fraught with the collapse of the front.

So the only citation of "enormous doubts" you provided from back in March was refuted by new information released since then. You provide zero new sources, just childish attempts to seed more doubt and uncertainty. I'm just a messenger posting news from the western media, yet instead of attempting to address why would all major newspapers suddenly publish a "nebulous story and perfectly suited for Putler's approach to sow discord among Ukraine's allies" you just continue with your silly personal attacks on me for posting the news? So, on one hand we have SPIEGEL claiming that "false flag" considered extremely unlikely, and Moscow had no real motive for the crime, and on another we have 1miau ignoring everything and pushing his false flag conspiracy theory with the super reliable source of Think we can all decide who we trust more on this one.

Germany just decided due to the war to abandon Russian gas.
Before the war, Germany was like "Well, Putin is a bit strange and not democratic at all but maybe Putin will improve and cheap gas is nice". Gas from Russia wasn't popular but it was cheap. And that's why NordStream 2 was built.
The opinion about Russian gas changed massively, when Putin invaded Ukraine. Putin showed for everyone that he can't be trusted. His obvious lies ahead and during his "special operation", his war crimes and Putin even threatened to halt gas exports if Germany doesn't pay in Rubles, a demand Putin set up himself in 2022. By then, Germany's only problem was to get enough gas for the next winter (Putin's plan to "freeze Germany / Europe", like mentioned by suchmoon here (where Putin failed miserably as well  ))
Regarding his "gas to Germany" strategy, Putin miscalculated big time, that much more German politicians would be currupt or "Putinfriends" like our ex chancellor Gerhard Schröder. Putin calculated that his corrupt politicians won't decide to stop gas imports and don't deliever weapons to Ukraine. But turned out for Putin, that his bought politicians were not enough.
Germany decided to ditch Russian gas and even to deliever weapons to Ukraine.  

Some politicians would, for sure. But Putin's activity of buying currupt politicians has shifted massively to far-right AfD (and also still "Die Linke" (far left)). Moving forward, purchasing Russian gas again, will be extremely unpopular in Germany, especially because one of the key mistakes of German politics was to rely too much on Russian gas. Getting (almost) independent from other countries (no single point of failure) is a very popular political position in Germany now.
And a party advocating for the opposite would face enourmous criticism to repeat the same mistakes from pre-2022 again.
Putin has lost most of his support among German politicians due to his war against Ukraine. Many pro-russian networks of curruption were exposed and dismantled.

Yes, Germany's "problem" was mainly rising gas prices due to such a big percentage of gas coming from Russia. This is now solved since Putin hasn't any leverage here anymore.

After all, the only thing Putin's war achieved in that regard so far is a big miscalculation, where he has lost most European countries as a gas importer.  

A few interesting points here:

- Germany decided not to use Russian gas before the war? I do not think so, in fact they have lobbied in the EU to decide that gas "is green".
- Germany would be fine with returning to use RF gas. I know, it seems impossible today, but I give 1 year after a permanent cease fire to go back to cheap energy.
- Germany does not depend on the Russian gas, in the same sense that I do not depend on the cheapest restaurant around to eat. It is just the cheapest, as long as they do not go on an invading spree.

And some recent news, difficult to ignore even for the Muscovites who live immersed in the official juice of comfort, unconfirmed but seems that there have been explosions in at least one airport in Moscow.

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2023/08/10/Russia-s-emergency-service-reports-fire-near-airport-RIA

You have not provided a single citation, where officials say that they have proof, that Ukraine is behind it. Because there is no proof that Ukraine is behind it. All, you have presented are guesses, "could be", "might be", "looks like" or similar.  
You are just hiding behind your weak "Ukrainian boat" story...
Keep insisting on it to defend your beloved war criminal in the Kremlin.

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That's once again a lie from you because I've never said this. Stop making up things but lying seems to be your hobby...  

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Just because a "light explosive" is suspected to be used, it doesn't mean, it has been used.
In case of a Russian false flag operation, it would have been a very easy thing from Russia to leave these traces intentionally on that rented "Ukrainian boat" to create this story and afterwards cry "Ukraine is evil and behind it". And loyal Putin serfs, like you are one, are doing the rest to push this story again and again.  

It's not surprising that Putin's war crimes apologists in the West have selected the "Ukrainian boat" theory because it's such a nebulous story and perfectly suited for Putler's approach to sow discord among Ukraine's allies, why not providing any valid proof. It's a story that nebulous that Putin's loyal servs can accuse Ukraine of anything.
You are a perfect tool for Putin to commit more war crimes in Ukraine and it's really surpsrising how vehemently you are trying to accuse Ukraine without having any solid proof.
Everyday a new post, today 2 new posts, so we are at post number 9 defending Putler.  

In opposite to you, I'm doing research and also thinking about it if it's making sense or not.
You are obviously lacking any critical thinking skills or why are you pushing this weak story now in over half a dozen posts, again and again? Putin really likes to have such loyal serfs like you because without you, he would be able to kill much less Ukrainians. People like you are the problem why Putin feels emboldened to invade Ukraine because people like you would keep purchasing cheap gas, funding Putins aggression and let him take whole Ukraine.
Shame, shame...


And you should read the forum rules and avoid pyramid quotes as well...  
But reading is not your strength, obviously...

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It not even benefitted Germany anymore. When the pipelines were blown up, Germany had decided to abandon Russian gas, so all the pipelines would have been unseless anyways even if they'd still exist.
Also important to note, that 2 pipelines of NS1 were blown up but only 1 pipeline of NS2. 1 pipeline from NS2 is still intact.
And - no surprise - shortly after the explosions, Putin suggested to open the remaining NS2 pipeline.

Putin offers Europe gas through Nord Stream 2 - DW - 10/12/2022


Not suspicious, that one pipeline is still intact and Putin wants to start his NS2 project to keep Germany dependent and fund his russian war machine - not suspicious at all.

I appreciate the beginning of the transition from the silly denial stage into acceptance stage. But i'm truly stumbled by your question, pretense that Ukraine can set off explosions anywhere in the world is truly preposterous. Wait, perhaps you just believe that Ukraine is in war with Denmark or Sweden too? Perhaps you should ask paxmao why he feels that this is an act of war against those countries? Or you should ask US or Western allies why they view it as a sabotage on critical infrastructure? I'm not sure how else I can explain that Ukraine cannot blow up civilian infrastructures inside other countries Or are you still just trying to involve as many countries into this as you can to get the WW3 going by setting the precedent for Russia to blow up some pipeline/civ. infrastructure in another country too?

It appears that Netherlands intelligence was (the small EU country) that tipped everyone off about the sabotage, and the ones that were wondering if they got this info how others could not have known about this.


I am still waiting for you to provide any "right information (better, information that is right)" from you outside of what you've seen in your dreams last night. What would it take for you to change your mind on this, and admit UA involvement? Would you concede once Germany issues arrest warrants for those Ukrainians involved? But what am i saying, after all if flat earthers can deny that the earth is a sphere and no evidence is good enough for them, why shouldn't you be able to deny Ukraine involvement in Nord Stream sabotage?

Well, what can anybody expect? When you poke your sharp, little stick at Big Bear Russia, you're going to get swatted.

Now, think about this one thing. As Ukraine killed maybe more than 1400 Russians and Ukrainians since 2014 before Russia retaliated...
And then Ukraine lost a whole bunch of land to the Russians for it...
What does anybody think is going to happen to the tiny Ukraine that is left if they continue trying to turn this thing into a all out war?

Russia might not take all of Ukraine, but there won't be any Ukraine left at all.

Fat chance... I think Ruzzian society has "embraced the suck". They are mostly apathic and just either believing or pretending that nothing is happening or just accepting it like a fact of life and go about their business or to the front if they are enslaved enlisted to go.

For example, I saw a video of a big "boom" in Sevastopol... filmed by someone sunbathing in a nearby beach, and it was not deserted precisely, people just kept about their stuff... nothing new, no problem, nothing to worry about Vania. Or during Prigozin's "lobbying to influence legislation" with an armed column, people just went to the streets to see the tanks as if a carnival parade (well, short of was I recon).

I think they do not see how the change is possible, it could only come from the military and that is probably not a change. How could it happen? If the economy really goes down the drain very badly and there is a serious problem in the front.

That is funny.The terrorists are yelling,look out,terrorist attacks against our country.As Zelensky said,the war will come to Russia,especially to those parts supporting the unprovoked illegal war at the maximum and it has started yesterday with a boom in that optical factory,of course the Russians said it was the boiler room taking fire but Ukraine presidential advisor said from the images and videos shown it does not look like it was the pyrotechnics who got fire claiming may be some other reason.It is good for the Russians to feel the same pain Ukrainians have so maybe they react and call to the reason to act upon and stop Putler.

I have no interest whatsoever in "getting you", I do have interest in providing the right information (better, information that is right). You did not just say "Ukraine did it" (which I freely translate for the Ukrainian Government organised it), you said there was irrefutable proof of it. You showed some articles that mention very loose connections and mostly suspicions (even the titles of some say "suspicion").

Bottom line, there is no proof. My personal view - Russia most likely did it. My guess is that Ukraine would not damage infrastructure that mostly benefits Germany - an ally - and could stop EU aid if detected. Yes, I will write it again, the NS benefited mostly Germany.

You seem to be enormously agitated by this pipeline that was made useless by your glorious leader long before it was damaged. What happened to the whole "let Europe freeze" strategy?

Anyways, even if "Ukraine" had done it, how the fuck would it be terrorism if they're at war with Putinstan... are we still pretending that it's just a "special operation" and it's super unfair for the special operators to suffer any consequences?

Seriously i have provided citations from major international publications with quotes of their sources in intelligence agencies all over the world, and best you could come up with is a quote from a German public-service television broadcaster with 16% reach in Germany citing an "expert in maritime security"? Pretty weak from the start but if your whole hypothesis is resting on this, lets take a look.


I concede, you got me, you're absolutely correct! I said that Ukraine did it, but Ukraine is a country and as such technically unable to perform terrorism, which only humans are capable of doing.

You should read less Putin propaganda, you are already lying like Russian propagandists from Putler TV.
So, the expert Göran Swistek from my post above is "no citation"?  
Seriously?

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/nord-stream-andromeda-segeljacht-anschlag-sabotage-ukraine-krieg-102.html

Are you accusing me of plagiarism now? It's not a "citation"?
You are just delusional.

But to disappoint you even more, here's another German investigation where your "Ukrainian boat" theory gets rejected:

Putin's secret convoi

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Nope, except bombing and destroying Ukrainian cities, fooling idiots like you is everything, Putin has "achieved" so far. What a shameful record...  


Luckily Putin's clowns are far away from getting into power in Germany, so I have to disappoint you.  

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I stand corrected, it's your 6th post where you are defending war criminal Putler...