Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 173. (Read 73721 times)

Well, it expired today, it happens.

Cautioning the US that if was stoking the war into a global conflict, Putin said that Russia was suspending participation in the New war START treaty, the last major arm control treaty b/w Moscow and Washington.
Signed by then Us president Obama with Russian representative Dmitry Medvedev, in 2010m the treaty caps the number of deployed strategic nuclear warheads that the US and Russia can deploy. It was due to expire in coming 2 years that is 2026

Iran, even without Russia's help, is close to enriching uranium to weapons-grade purity, and no one seems to be able to prevent this. Suspension of Russia's membership in the offensive strategic nuclear arms treaty is a kind of US invitation to resume full-scale nuclear testing, and the test site on Novaya Zemlya is ready for this. In general, Putin's speech today was surprisingly mild, many expected him to declare war or mass mobilization, but most of the time he spoke about socio-economic issues. As a curiosity, I can note Putin's proposal to put things in order with the holidays for the participants in the special operation, which means that this conflict can not be expected to end soon. I think this story will drag on for at least another year or two.

Sure, feeding delusions of broken and deranged people is a good tactical move from Russia, (evil but effective) as broken people without purpose in life are particularly receptive for reflexive control tactic.

They keep believing that if they could criticize Russia as well they are independent like some people in this thread. That suits Russia very well as it makes the trolls more authentic.
And trolls keep thinking they are thinking they are finding the "truth" by themselves while they are fed by russian troll factories mixed with total lunacy.

They are totally ignoring opinions from experts and cherry pick truths that fit their narrative. Truths that are simple and exciting enough for their brains. They are not interested of any boring or complicated truths as their lives are often boring and insignificant enough and they won't find meaning or their place from the truth so they won't accept it.

Russian goal is to slowly break and weaken the enemy from inside by creating as much doubt confusion and chaos as possible while weakening ties of allies of the target countries. This leaves them isolated and open for attack.

What Russia for some reason didn't calculate was the fact that unfriendly countries are now more unified then ever because of the attack. That might be because Putin surrounded himself with yes men and didn't have a full picture. Either that or he is just that stupid.

Of all the deluded putinists, the spoiled "slave to the USA" types crack me up the most... You think letting Putin enslave you is the answer to your "slavery" plight? Or do you have the illusion that he'll conveniently stop at the Latvian/Polish/German border with no "cost" for you?

Funny how people like you can have all the world's history and any other information at their fingertips today and yet end up dumber and dumber.

I know it's you, so we can take it with a grain of salt because you jump around so much, but...

Now you are calling Russia wonderful for giving/selling nukes to Iran? You really are nuts.

It's bad enough that the US and Nato are pushing Russia into war, but you seem to like it that way. Are you moving to Russia yet? You'd probably be safe if you moved into the Urals. Mountains can block nuclear blasts, you know.

1) You make assumptions (wrongly by the way) where someone is from based on their post. That is frankly astonishingly arrogant but above all absurd.
2) My claims are 100% wrong? I claimed nothing, I simply referred to Seymour Hersh, a journalist, who in his material and interviews is stating pretty much everything I have. Instead of debunking his claims you quickly side with the media who have done nothing but nearly destroyed society over the last few decades with their misinformation and scaremongering.
3) You gave a "hint" about who you think is behind the sabotage BEFORE listing the evidence. Sounds like your mind has been made up. Why list all that "evidence". No one gives a fuck. Non of it on first glance seems rational regardless.
4) Any attack on the west in your eyes will be seen as someone being a "putler" apologist. This is that typical George W. Bush horseshit of "you are with us or against us". Look at where that brought the west and the lies that were told to invade Iraq. Are we any better than that Putin shithead? I doubt it very much. The USA already proved it will go to extreme lengths, despite the NATO alliance or any agreements. And indeed unfortunately the UK is often right behind them. The fact you don't even consider this FACT when it comes to Nordstream is crazy.

How someone with that ignorant and arrogant mindset can even end up on a Bitcoin forum, unless it is only for trolling - surely in your view the western governments are perfect and existing monetary systems are fantastic OR you are a "Putler" apologist right? - is the mind-boggling thing....

Who stood to gain from the Nordstream pipeline sabotage the most?

That is the first question you should ask yourself before just looking at the media lies. Would you take the media's advice on Bitcoin?
In fact if you are in the know of any subject matter often you will find the media twists and tells lies and does not provide an equal playing field of information.
I know this in some of the areas I have worked in or took an interest in that I have seen the media report on, and it is now blatantly obvious it has been happening in energy markets also.

Gas pipeline sabotage, net zero goals, hundreds of windfarms and solar farms popped up out of the ground across Europe BUT Shell, BP and almost any single large energy reseller/middleman still made record profits.
Sure, nothing fishy.... AT ALL.

And wonderful Russia just announced that they are withdrawing from the START treaty.

Read: Iran is getting Russian nukes.

You jokers are such conspiracy theorists. Hasn't tvbcof said over and over that he's not in favor of any of either the West or Russia? All he is doing is showing us what is really going on. Seems to me that he said he lives in the Philippines for crying out loud... just to get away from the dangerous jokers in the US, who are like you in actions rather than words.

And montaga's video listed above. Has anybody watched it? At about 6 minutes it has a list of a dozen things that have drastically increased in price over the last year, due to inflation. Where does this inflation come from? It comes from printing more money to give to Ukraine.

In the past, the idea of conspiracy theory might have been something like, "Russia good, the West bad." Now that it is turning out that the West is looking bad, the conspiracy ideas are changing. You US propagandists are the real conspiracy theorists.

That's why fascism exists.  



Oh cool, another youtube conspiracy theory channel.  Was just looking for some fresh takes and click bait titles about Epstein, Clinton, Soros and friends....

Germany now taking full investigation to pipeline explosion
https://youtu.be/92sLZO--F60

Its never been about the plight of those actually affected for him. Its about using this forum to make himself feel more powerful.


I think that Russian propaganda is crafted to hone in on and take advantage of people this insulated from reality. People so broken they would side with obvious evil because it somehow makes them feel more powerful, which is more important to them than empathizing with those suffering the consequences of Putin's actions.

What makes you think that?  

Under Biden there have already been a bunch of Chinese sanctions related to supporting Russia in some way, not to mention the semi conductor sanctions to limit Chinas access to advanced computer chips and chip production.

https://asiatimes.com/2022/06/us-starts-sanctioning-china-for-supporting-russia/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-26/us-targets-chinese-company-in-broader-russia-sanctions-push

https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/documents/about-bis/newsroom/press-releases/3158-2022-10-07-bis-press-release-advanced-computing-and-semiconductor-manufacturing-controls-final/file

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In other news.  There's some document floating around with very detailed plans on how Russia plans on making Belarus BellaRussia by 2030 and it seems like it could be authentic.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-belarus-strategy-document-230035184.html

I'm sure he just wants Ukraine and Belarus though and will stop trying to take countries after that so we should just let him do his things and encourage Ukraine to surrender or better yet blame them for defending themselves...is what I would say if I was a brainwashed Kremtard.

I read today that the United States is openly accusing China on considering to send war material and weapons to Russia, China (for now) has denied those accusations.

If China enters the war as material supplier to the Russian Federation while USA is pushing to continue sending money to Kiev, things could get messy between the both super-powers... I doubt  Mr.Biden would dare to set economical sanctions against China the way Mr.Trump once did.

I'm always surprised how these unfounded hot takes are coming from Putler apologists, who aren't from Europe and don't know anything about Germany.  
As someone from Germany, I can tell you that your claims are 100% laughable and wrong, dear bunny.  

Let's collect some reasons who could have blown up the pipeline (hint: Russia has blown up the pipeline):


Ukraine
Yeah, sure, it has been Ukraine!
Ukraine doesn't has access to the Baltic Sea, because it doesn't share a border (plz do at least some research about geographics), so Ukraine must have sent Klitschko on the back of a dolphin, a bit dynamite on his back and he started his mission in Odessa, where he swam through the Black Sea, past Istanbul, through the Mediterranean Sea, past Gibraltar along the coast of Portugal, Spain and France, through the English channel and his dolphin was re-charged in Amsterdam, that he finally swam past Denmark to dive several 100m to place his dynamite and blow up the pipeline by placing the dynamite all by his bare hands.
Ukraine doesn't has any capabilities to do this and it would be plain stupid to risk their military aid if their try to blow up NS is detected and Russia could be the big propaganda winner, so yes, it must have been Ukraine!  




USA / UK / Poland
For sure, USA / UK / Poland are behind it! It would make totally sense for them to blow up a useless pipeline because Germany didn't purchase any gas from Russia anymore at the time, when the pipeline was blown up.
It would make totally sense for USA / UK / Poland to do this after Putin messed it up himself, when he showed how unrealiable he has been as a partner when he lied to everyone that he wouldn't invade Ukraine.
It would make totally sense for USA / UK / Poland to do this because Germany planned anyways to stop gas purchases from Russia due to Putin's continued war.
It would make totally sense for USA / UK / Poland to blow up 2 pipelines from Nordstream 1 and 1 pipeline from Nordstream 2, while 1 pipeline of Nordstream 2 remains intact, so that russian gas delieveries would still be possible.
The USA / UK / Poland are completely ready to do such a move to gain exactly nothing from blowing up that pipeline, while risking their entire trust in NATO. No gain at all, but enormous risk, therefore, it must have been USA / UK / Poland!




Germany
Germany is behind it! Who else could it be? It's Germany because Germany is always at fault (because Nazis).

In a secret meeting, Olaf Scholz, chancellor of Germany, discussed together with Robert Habeck (economy) and Christian Lindner (a liberal).
Very concerned, Olaf Scholz asked for solutions why Germany has gotten so dependant on russian Gas. He asked: "Dear Gentlemen, we have a big issue right now. There are 10 Russia apologists demonstrating in Saxonia to open Nordstream 2. It's a very big issue. They aren't relevant at all and nobody listens to them anyways but we need to act. How can we stop it?"
Christian Lindner, the liberal, suggested: "we can nuke the Russia apologists in Saxonia." But Robert Habeck quickly objected: "that would be bad for our economy." He suggested instead: "Let's blow up Nordstream 1 and 2, we wouldn't solve any problems because we won't purchase any gas from Russia anyways and we are safe already that we have enough Gas for the upcoming winter, but we should blow up Nordstream 1 and 2."
Olaf Scholz objected: "that's a good idea but you need to consider that we are Germany and my party likes Putin somehow, it was Gerhard Schröder who got us dependant on russian gas and Schröder is on Rosneft supervisory board. We can't let him down. We should blow up 2 pipelines from Nordstream 1 and 1 pipeline from Nordstream 2, that Putin can still blackmail us to open it again and that Putin gets his prestige project, which he really cares about."
The other two: "that's not a good idea because it would not solve any of our issues. It wouldn't shut down the Putin apologist protests in Saxonia and questions about opening Nordstream 2!"
Olaf Scholz replied: "Do you have better ideas?"
The other two: "unfortunately not, but we won't gain anything from your strategy"
Olaf Scholz: "What did you say, I didn't hear you? Well, let's turn my suggestion into reality, dear Gentleman!"...
And they proceeded to blow up 2 pipelines from Nordstream 1 and 1 pipeline from Nordstream 2...

Sure, Germany must be behind it!




Russia
Impossible, Russia never does bad things! And Russia never lies!
Russia might have made a big mistake to start the war special military operation (because it wasn't succesful, which really angered Russia's trolls), and which Russia didn't want to start and it was only a coincidende, why Russia was amassing troops on the Ukrainian border for more than 2 months. So, it was completely unavoidable that these troops should also be used in the region (as cannon fodder).
However, since Russia invaded Ukraine performed a special military operation, which failed was regrouped because Ukrainians didn't want to get shot and enslaved liberated, the master strategist Putin has messed up completely and exposed Russia as what it is: a corrupt regional power.
The nation of Germany, previously highly dependend on russian Gas, got completely rid of russian gas due to Putin's war and Putin's prestige project Nordstream 2 was set to be a big fail once again.
What should Putin do with a useless pipeline? He was planning to proceed in his useless war, so he already know that Germany wouldn't purchase any russian gas as long as he and his cronies will stay in power.
Outin run out of options and by blowing up NS1 while leaving one pipeline of NS2 intact, he could try to blackmail Germany in case of a cold winter to finally open Nordstream 2 (from which one pipeline was left intact, surprisingly) and potentially send gas to Germany, which would be a huge propaganda victory for him in Russia.

In addition, maybe he wanted to divide the pro-ukrainian alliance against his war by sowing discord and relying on his conspiracy war criminal supporting trolls such like BAdecker or Branko to spread bullshit claims that Ukraine / USA / UK / Poland / Germany would be behind it. Because Putin knows how reliable his trolls are because his trolls are never blaming Russia (as we know from some idiots on Bitcointalk, right).  
In addition, maybe Putin just wanted to make sure that no Oligarch could decide to remove Putin and his cronies because a new government could stop the war in Ukraine + use Nordstream again for gas? (which would threaten Putin and make a removal of Putin more likely).
These are just coincidences and Russia has, with a huge margin, far the biggest potential to gain from their pipeline being blown up, which got useless anyways due to Russia's war against Ukraine.
So let's be fair, Russia might be lying all day but it's not Russia blowing up their useless pipeline.





Let me know which stories are plausible in your opinion.  

^^^ Yabut, think of all the money that the banks will make if Russia falls. Does anybody think that they will share any of it, Lol.

Lmao, Russian reputation where people see them being good in falling from windows, totalitarianism, raping, torturing, slaughtering of their own people, oppressing, racist, corrupt, threat to a free world. Must be fun to be on the that side of the history. Just be glad that you won't have to deal with that on daily basis personally and you don't have to live near to them. It's easy being a coward from a distance.

Hopefully russian troll factories pays you guys enough because if you are doing that for free you are an useful idiot

Here we go. This is the first real start of the protests against the Ukrainian war... just like the protests against Viet Nam.

Click here for Ron Paul's speech against the war. There is at least one other video linked at the website.


The Power-Serving Myth That Anti-War Protests Make No Difference

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https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/the-power-serving-myth-that-anti
I've been seeing some people try to downplay the numbers on social media, but footage from the Rage Against the War Machine rally makes it clear that attendance was in the thousands; people who were there place the number at around three thousand.

This is significantly better attendance than any other American anti-war demonstration in recent years that I'm aware of. It's nowhere remotely close to the historic numbers people demonstrated in to protest the war in Iraq, and it's nowhere remotely close to what it should be for an issue of such existential importance.

But it's a start. Maybe the start of something good. The ANSWER Coalition has a March on Washington scheduled for March 18th for the 20th anniversary of the Iraq invasion demanding "Negotiations not escalation" in Ukraine and an end to US militarism abroad. We shall see if this thing continues to pick up steam.
...

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You do not live in Ukraine. US was 20 years in Afghanistan, demoted Gadhafi in Lybia, demoted  Sadam in Iraq,... I think that Ukraine could live with Putin demoted as a result of this, so great examples thanks.

The US is right in sending war material to Ukraine. Much better to fight near the RF than in the Brandenburg gate (in Berlin) and certainly much cheaper than a new full-blown cold war.

Agree on the basis, but bear in mind that "too risky and too dangerous" for Putin does not mean that too many of the soldiers may die or too much war material can be lost.  It means "too much risk of loosing power" and too "dangerous for himself". Killing soldiers in the field is (unfortunately) just part of the equation.

Putin is not immune to the "too expensive" and "not worth it" arguments. Apart from his personal ego, war is expensive and most countries (since the Romans and before) do war if is either: a) Required for survival (like Ukraine & the supporting countries) b) Profitable (easy targets, high income) c) Strategically interesting (e.g. Europe having Ukraine as ally / Putin wanting to have statelets under his control).

The strategic objectives do have a limit in economic terms - he may simply not be able to afford any better strategic position that he has for lack of funding.

Finally the "not sustainable" is also relevant, aligns with the "not worth it".

RE delivery times and NATO shooting down planes in an undeclared war, that gets you WW III. Simple, yet wrong solution. Unfortunately, there is no way NATO can offer that level of support. An I do perfectly understand that Ukraine at this point may want it, but honestly, the first nuclear strike would be in your territory if it ever happens. Are you sure you want that?

BTW, I think that NATO helped the sinking of the Moskva. Tactics, intelligence, infiltration,... that wins wars as much as tanks and planes (typical case: U boats).